Azazello1313 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 spinoff from the hines ward thread. there is getting to be a pretty decent glut of WRs who are possibly deserving when it comes to HOF enshrinement. how would you rank them, most deserving to least deserving? let's include active players, but keep it to actual accumulated stats (rather than, "if larry fitz has x more productive years..." type speculation). just throwing out the list, not in any particular order... tim brown cris carter andre reed isaac bruce rod smith jimmy smith hines ward marvin harrison TO randy moss irving fryar torry holt sterling sharpe who am I missing? I really think those first two need to get in before anyone else at the position -- tim brown and cris carter are HOF WRs, period. reed, bruce and harrison I am more ambivalent about -- they have stats that make a good case, but I dunno, I feel like they were in the right place at the right time as much as anything else. there is no way you can keep out TO or moss when their number comes up. hines will probably get in, because for whatever reason steelers always get in before comparable players from other teams. the rest of those guys might be on the outs, much as I love guys like rod and jimmy smith, and much as I think sterling sharpe was one of the most talented of the bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Did Andre Rison ever make it? Also: Henry Ellard? And maybe Mark Clayton? Edited March 2, 2012 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Did Andre Rison ever make it? Also: Henry Ellard? And maybe Mark Clayton? Andre Rison is not in the HOF, here is a link to their page with players by position, have to scroll down to the section with WR (pre modern era split out separately). I cut & pasted the modern era WR list below the link http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspx Lance Alworth 1962-1972 Raymond Berry 1955-1967 Fred Biletnikoff 1965-1978 Tom Fears 1948-1956 Bob Hayes 1965-1975 Elroy (Crazylegs) Hirsch (also HB) 1946-1956 Michael Irvin 1988-1999 Charlie Joiner 1969-1986 Steve Largent 1976-1989 Dante Lavelli 1946-1956 James Lofton 1978-1993 Don Maynard 1958, 1960-1973 Tommy McDonald 1957-1968 Bobby Mitchell (also HB) 1958-1968 Art Monk 1980-1995 Pete Pihos 1947-1955 Jerry Rice 1985-2000 John Stallworth 1974-1987 Lynn Swann 1974-1982 Charley Taylor (also HB) 1964-1975, 1977 Paul Warfield 1964-1977 I agree with the OP Cris Carter and Tim Brown need to go in first before any others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 some others worth merit: Cliff Branch Drew Pearson Harold Carmichael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) superficially, without looking at numbers: moss carter harrison brown to reed bruce r smith holt j smith fryar ward sharpe has me very conflicted due to his shortened career. absolutely phenomenal player. Edited March 2, 2012 by Bier Meister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Marvin Harrison deserves it above all the rest. As a rookie, with Jim Harbaugh throwing to him, he had 64-836 yards and 8 TD's. The following year, with a hideous assortment of QB's, he had 73-866 yards and 6 TD's. It was not all Peyton Manning. 1,102 reception - third all time 14,580 yards - sixth all time 128 TD's - fifth all time 76.7 yards per game - fifth all time Single season record holder for receptions in a season with 143 1 Super Bowl win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Marvin Harrison deserves it above all the rest. As a rookie, with Jim Harbaugh throwing to him, he had 64-836 yards and 8 TD's. The following year, with a hideous assortment of QB's, he had 73-866 yards and 6 TD's. It was not all Peyton Manning. you realize that 850 yards and 6 TDs is not exactly HOF level production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 you realize that 850 yards and 6 TDs is not exactly HOF level production? I'd call that pretty good rookie production. Anyway, as to the primary topic - the explosion in passing yds has really demolished whatever the standards used to be for WRs. Steve Largent retired as the across-the-board WR leader (catches, yds, tds) in '89 - playing mostly in the post-78 offense friendly era - and his numbers look downright pedestrian today. I'd say that Art Monk and James Lofton were fortunate to get in when they did - guys who I'd consider HoF caliber WRs from the 80s-90s (off the top of my head, Gary Clark and Henry Ellard...oh yeah, and Fryar) are basically f*cked at this point in time. Even borderline HoF guys from the late 90s-00s (J and R Smith, Bruce) don't look to make the cut with the #s some of those guys ended up with. tim brown cris carter andre reed isaac bruce rod smith jimmy smith hines ward marvin harrison TO randy moss irving fryar torry holt sterling sharpe The WRs I see as no-brainers* are Brown, Carter, Holt, Harrison, TO, and Moss. Reed, Ward, R/J Smith, and Bruce belong in the Hall of the Very Good. Fryar was simply a compiler (1 season in his entire career in the top 5 in rec, yds, OR tds, never led the league in ANY category). Sharpe essentially put up #s better than anyone else not named Jerry Rice (ahead of everyone else in rec and tds, behind Irvin and Ellard in yds) from 88-95...top rookie WR (in a rookie class that included Brown, Irvin, and Anthony Miller), led league in rec 3 times, tds twice, rec yds once, top 5s in rec (4 times), yds (4 times), tds (4 times)....in a 7 yr career that featured QBs named Wright, Kiel, Dilweg, Tomczak, and Majkowski throwing to him before Brett Favre came on the scene (at which point his to-that-point very good career became mind-boggling). Based on his production, anyone saying he wasn't one of the top 2 or 3 WRs during the length of his career doesn't know what they're talking about. * - I'm not calling them slam-dunks because I have no idea who may have an axe to grind to keep them out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) you realize that 850 yards and 6 TDs is not exactly HOF level production? It is when your QB's are Jim Harbaugh, Paul Justin, and Kelly Holcomb and it's your rookie or second year in the league. . . Edited March 3, 2012 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) If your team was drafting, would you really want Terrell Owens or Randy Moss ahead of Marvin Harrison? Yeah, they had more physical talent. But they also burned bridges, cause team dis-unity, and bounced around the league due to their immaturity. I'd take a guy like Marvin that keeps his mouth shut, practices and plays hard, and plays for the team that drafts him for 12 years. The Vikings, the team that drafted him, only got 7 years from Randy Moss. The 49ers, the team that drafted him, only got 8 years from Terrell Owens. Neither Moss no Owens got to a Super Bowl with the team that drafted them. Oh yeah, Harrison was pretty DAMN good too. That TD at New England at the pylon is one of the greatest catches of ALL TIME. Edited March 5, 2012 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 If you're team was drafting, would you really want Terrell Owens or Randy Moss ahead of Marvin Harrison? Yeah, they had more physical talent. But they also burned bridges, cause team dis-unity, and bounced around the league due to their immaturity. I'd take a guy like Marvin that keeps his mouth shut, practices and plays hard, and plays for the team that drafts him for 12 years. The Vikings, the team that drafted him, only got 7 years from Randy Moss. The 49ers, the team that drafted him, only got 8 years from Terrell Owens. Neither Moss no Owens got to a Super Bowl with the team that drafted them. Oh yeah, Harrison was pretty DAMN good too. That TD at New England at the pylon is one of the greatest catches of ALL TIME. Have Jeff Garcia and Daunte Culpeppar throw to Harrison the bulk of his career and see if we're having this conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 tim brown cris carter isaac bruce marvin harrison TO randy moss torry holt These are the only guys worth a sniff of Canton. Smith, Smith, Ward, Reed, Fryar, etc. were all fine players, but they weren't among THE BEST in the game when they played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) let's include active players, but keep it to actual accumulated stats (rather than, "if larry fitz has x more productive years..." type speculation). Touching on this, of guys in the prime of their careers (or at least still active), I think you could make an argument that if Andre Johnson got run over by a bus tomorrow, his body of work merits inclusion. Fitzgerald and Megatron....not quite yet. But I'd say those are the 3 best WRs in the game today, and have been for the past 3-4 yrs. Reggie Wayne is in the discussion, but I'm just not feeling it for some reason - I'd put him on the bubble as a player who I wouldn't vote for but wouldn't complain if he made it (call it "the Art Monk"). Other guys, when I look at it - Wes Welker...he's an absolute reception machine, but I can't pull the trigger on that; I thought Steve Smith had a better career than he actually has; Chad Ochocinco is on his way out, but he was a stone-cold stud from 03-07; Anquan Boldin was on pace but then he went to that sucking black hole of Baltimore. Edited March 3, 2012 by Chavez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Have Jeff Garcia and Daunte Culpeppar throw to Harrison the bulk of his career and see if we're having this conversation. What were Moss's numbers like in Oakland again? 2 years. 102 catches. 1553 yards. 11 TD's. IN THE PRIME OF HIS CAREER . . . Edited March 3, 2012 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Have Jeff Garcia and Daunte Culpeppar throw to Harrison the bulk of his career and see if we're having this conversation. The hate on Jeff Garcia is utterly inexplicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 The hate on Jeff Garcia is utterly inexplicable. Culpepper too. The guy was pretty good for quite a while. Not to mention TO had Steve Young and Donovan McNabb throwing to him as well. And Moss had Tom Brady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Moss, Harrison, Owens are locks to make the HOF. They have not been retired long enough to even be a part of this discussion. Moss and Owens aren't even definitively retired But yes, I would tak Moss over any receiver ever drafted not named Rice. Before and after he was in New England. I would probably take Harrison over Owens, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 superficially, without looking at numbers: moss carter harrison brown to reed bruce r smith holt j smith fryar ward sharpe has me very conflicted due to his shortened career. absolutely phenomenal player. I'd put Terrell Owens ahead of Tim Brown. That's my opinion, and I'm sure most will disagree. As far as Sterling goes... He would have made the HOF, but he didn't play long enough. The HOF should be for players that were great for an extended period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 But yes, I would tak Moss over any receiver ever drafted not named Rice. Before and after he was in New England. I would probably take Harrison over Owens, though. You mean Hutson, then Rice, then Moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) to be clear, I don't necessarily think carter and brown have stronger bodies of work than moss and TO. just that it's their turn and they need to get in pronto. without regard to those kinds of considerations, I think my order would go something like... moss TO tim brown cris carter marvin harrison rod smith sterling sharpe andre reed jimmy smith hines ward isaac bruce torry holt irving fryar I am not nearly as sold as some of you that holt is a HOF WR. nice player, but... Edited March 3, 2012 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) By the numbers, Holt consistently better than Bruce, and his ceiling was higher for longer. EDITING to put #s to my assertion: Holt - 11 yrs - 1 time All Pro; 6 straight seasons over 1300 yds (00-05, 1600+ yds in 00 and 03), followed up by 1188 in 06 and 1189 in 07; 8 straight seasons over 80 catches (117 in 03, 103 in 05); 3 10+ td seasons; avg rec/yds per game - 5.3, 77.4 Bruce - 16 yrs - 0 All Pros (mind boggling he didn't get it in 95); 4 seasons over 1200 yds (95-96, 00, 04, 1781 yds in 95); 4 80 catch seasons (95-96, 00, 04 - 119 in 95); 2 10+ td seasons; avg rec/yds game - 4.6, 68.2. 5 fewer tds than Holt over a longer career. Edited March 3, 2012 by Chavez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) I'd put Terrell Owens ahead of Tim Brown. That's my opinion, and I'm sure most will disagree. As far as Sterling goes... He would have made the HOF, but he didn't play long enough. The HOF should be for players that were great for an extended period of time. He was the 2nd best WR in the game* from 92-94; he was also dominant in '89, and very good in '90. The ONLY season of his career (aside from his rookie season, where, as mentioned before, he led all rookies in yds and rec) where he was below "very good" was '91, where he went 69-961-4 catching passes from a noodle-armed Don Majkowski, journeyman Mike Tomczak, and theoretically sober Blair Kiel. Sharpe WAS great for an extended period. He just didn't have the good/average years before/after he was great to pad up his #s. * - 2nd best behind Jerry Rice is like 2nd best behind Jim Brown - any other era and the player might CLEARLY be the best at his position; EDIT - since I'm cranking out #s here, this is where Sharpe is (and I stress that let's remember he only played SEVEN YEARS, the least among the people we're discussing here by a LONG shot): 3 time All-Pro; 4 80 catch seasons (89, 92-94 - led league in rec in 89, 92, and 93); 3 1200 yd seasons (89, 92-93 - led league in 92); 4 10+ td seasons (89, 92-94 - led league in 92 and 94); 5.3 rec/game, 72.6 yds Edited March 3, 2012 by Chavez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Ranking the players mentioned, I agree with Az that I think the BEST candidates out there are TO and Moss, but Brown needs to get in NOW before he gets shunted aside. Moss Harrison TO Holt Brown Sharpe Carter The bubble: Henry Ellard, Gary Clark, Jimmy Smith, Rod Smith, Isaac Bruce (mainly because he was so stupid good in 95-96) Senior candidate - Billy Howton (retired as all-time rec/yds leader in '63) Edited March 3, 2012 by Chavez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris N Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 cris carter randy moss marvin harrison tim brown TO That is the list of HOF wr's that should be in. It's the HOF not "some really good wr's from the 90s and 2000s". These 5 deserve it and should all make it in. The rest of the list was just some really good players, but none of them are on HOF standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Broke the sad news to some Steeler fans that Hines Ward's career probably doesn't merit HoF induction on another MB. Fun fact - NOBODY does butthurt like a Steeler fan. Nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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