Jump to content
[[Template core/front/custom/_customHeader is throwing an error. This theme may be out of date. Run the support tool in the AdminCP to restore the default theme.]]

Saints D being busted for bounty program


rajncajn
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just heard Darren Sharper being interviewed on NFL 32 discussing the situation.

 

Suzy Kolber asked him if this existed and he said no.

 

He did say that they had a pool going for first interception, etc. Teddy Bruschi said the Patriots did the same type of thing.

 

Darren said they played hard and they did, but there was no intention to knock someone out of the game of hurt them.

 

Plus Sharper said the rules in 2009 were different than they are today.

 

All of the hits they delivered were legal or they would have gotten flagged or fined. And that didn't happen.

 

Sharper said this kind of thing has been going on ever since he entered the league.

 

Sharper also said that the NFL did not interview him about this.

 

Sharper also said there is someone trying to tarnish the Saints and what they accomplished.

 

He said Greg Williams just caved in because he had to.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, it sure looks that way. I wouldn't go so far as saying it was cheating for an advantage like with spygate, but equally as shameful.

:nono: Nice try, homer. Equally as shameful??!! This is 100 times more shameful than what the Patriots did.

 

Intentionally trying to hurt a player and/or rewarding a player if they successfully injure other players is disgustingly bush league and should require at least 1 suspensions for all who are guilty. Man, if Sean Payton knew about this and condoned it, I just lost the ton of respect I had for him. This story is very disappointing to say the least.

 

:tdown: :tdown: Saints :furious:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm neither shocked nor outraged by this. I see it as little more than friendly wagering among friends. They are going to try to blow guys up regardless of bounties because that is how they earn their next big contract. This is just a way among th p layers to keep things interesting, sort of like betting a buddy whether he can pick up a chick in a bar. You know he is going to try regardless, it is just a scoring system acknowledging success or failure.

 

Now I read that this is against the rules. I believe the reason this is so is purely for the league image. The league does not want broadcasted that which is a normal ,and I believe customary, mindset of the players. The league finds it untoward image-wise to have to live with such a mind set becoming public. They know the mindset has to exist to play at the level these guys do, but they don't want it talked about.

 

Given the previous posts I imagine my take will get savaged. This really seems to offend many of you. I appreciate my thoughts will not be popular so have fun with them. I will not take the savaging personally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:nono: Nice try, homer. Equally as shameful??!! This is 100 times more shameful than what the Patriots did.

 

Intentionally trying to hurt a player and/or rewarding a player if they successfully injure other players is disgustingly bush league and should require at least 1 suspensions for all who are guilty. Man, if Sean Payton knew about this and condoned it, I just lost the ton of respect I had for him. This story is very disappointing to say the least.

 

:tdown: :tdown: Saints :furious:

I came here and posted this thread and I have not tried to defend anyone and you're trying to call me out as a homer? This is hard enough to stomach as a fan without jerkwads attacking me for something I didn't do.

Edited by rajncajn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I came here and posted this thread and I have not tried to defend anyone and you're trying to call me out as a homer? This is hard enough to stomach as a fan without jerkwads attacking me for something I didn't do.

Attacking? Hardly. Just pointing out your Elton-John-gaudy homer glasses you had on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1089196-dungy-titans-had-a-bounty-on-peyton-manning

 

Now Dungy saying the Titans had a bounty on Manning and quite a few players, including Favre, coming out saying this is a pretty common practice. Gotta wonder how far this thing will stretch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Attacking? Hardly. Just pointing out your Elton-John-gaudy homer glasses you had on.

Have you seen me post one word in defense of the players or coaches involved? Yet, you just have to rub it in and throw in a shot at me.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you seen me post one word in defense of the players or coaches involved? Yet, you just have to rub it in and throw in a shot at me.

Quote the "shot" I took at you and I'll apologize since that was not my intent. Otherwise I'll just chalk this up as you being emotional right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm neither shocked nor outraged by this. I see it as little more than friendly wagering among friends. They are going to try to blow guys up regardless of bounties because that is how they earn their next big contract. This is just a way among th p layers to keep things interesting, sort of like betting a buddy whether he can pick up a chick in a bar. You know he is going to try regardless, it is just a scoring system acknowledging success or failure.

 

Now I read that this is against the rules. I believe the reason this is so is purely for the league image. The league does not want broadcasted that which is a normal ,and I believe customary, mindset of the players. The league finds it untoward image-wise to have to live with such a mind set becoming public. They know the mindset has to exist to play at the level these guys do, but they don't want it talked about.

 

Given the previous posts I imagine my take will get savaged. This really seems to offend many of you. I appreciate my thoughts will not be popular so have fun with them. I will not take the savaging personally.

 

 

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree, Your Honor. I believe that a bounty system clearly establishes intent. While all D players may play very hard and try to hit opponents very hard, there is a fine line - and I think you'd get the overwhelming majority of players to agree - between playing the game hard, hitting opponents hard, and having injuries occur as a consequential outcome; and establishing a direct intent to injure prior to the event occuring. It's equivalent to the difference between a clean hard hit and a cheap shot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let us not forget the cheap shot that started Peyton Manning's neck problems...

 

Against who? A 2006 Greg Williams defense.

How much do you think Phillip Daniels made for that hit?

 

 

From rotoworld:

 

 

The Washington Post reports that Gregg Williams utilized a bounty system paying players for big hits as far back as his time as Redskins defensive coordinator from 2004 through 2007.

 

The Post spoke with four of Williams' former Redskins players. Only DE Phillip Daniels, now a member of Washington's front office, was willing to speak on the record. The reward for big hits was "hundreds to thousands of dollars," said the Redskins' players. Recalled one defensive player who's still in the league, "If you took the star player out, he’d hook you up a little bit." The Rams shouldn't count on having Williams to coordinate their defense for 16 games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also from rotoworld:

 

 

ESPN's John Clayton speculates that the Saints will face a hefty fine as well as the loss of "multiple draft choices" as league-imposed punishment for the 2009-2011 bounty scandal.

 

Perhaps the most damning evidence against the Saints is that GM Mickey Loomis and coach Sean Payton knew about Gregg Williams' bounty system, and did nothing to prevent it. "I think it's gonna be a penalty that's gonna exceed SpyGate," Clayton said on SportsCenter. "I think you're probably gonna see the organization fined significantly, maybe close to $1 million. I think you're gonna see multiple draft choices taken away. ... Maybe a first-round pick next year and some other pick this year."

 

 

Now that this history of behavior across multiple teams is emerging, I think it's entirely possible that we may see Williams get a lifetime ban from the NFL. And given that Saints' HC and GM knew about this and did nothing, I think the loss of a 1st rounder and a 7 figure fine are absolutely a reasonable possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First,

Brent are you serious? Rajn has been nothing but apologetic and is the OP in this thread. Are you old enough to remember the 85/86 Bears? You think for a second that those guys weren't trying to rip other players heads off? You think there wasn't some side bets going on with that? If you don't you are naive at best.

 

This is a hugh story because it is going to cost the Saints big time period! Outside of that they are simply the team that got caught.

Gregg Williams appears to be at the center of this and no I don't think the Saints were unaware of the history here when they hired him. Therefore the Saints will deserve what they get for this.

 

A lifetime ban for Williams? Sure. Lets go ahead and take the next logical step towards flag football.

 

A # of years ago my uncle told me he was growing tired of the direction the NFL was moving in regards to softening the sport. He is a lifelong Raiders fan and remembers the days when football was a much more violent sport than it is today. I argued then and still argue today that some steps had to be taken to insure the long term health of the players. This situation doesn't change my view here one bit.

 

I have read all the responses in this thread and they are basically what I expected. Some tongue in cheeck ripping on the Saints, some realistic views of the probability that this is happening in more than one locker room in the NFL, and of course a few of the OMG please dismantle the Saints now, they are criminals, reponses.

 

The Saints will see suspensions, fines, and loss of some valuable draft picks. ESPN had a poll yesterday on this and I voted that all of the above was appropriate. I have seen nothing in this thread that shows rajn viewing this any differently.

 

Outside of the obvious punishment there is something that I think will hurt the Saints as well as any Gregg Williams coached defense in the future. I can see a very real possibility that the Saints will be called much tighter on the defensive side of the ball by the refs than other teams may be called. I think this will just be a natural reaction by the refs and again something the Saints will have earned by allowing this to happen. That will be a competetive advantage for anyone the Saints play in the near future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote the "shot" I took at you and I'll apologize since that was not my intent. Otherwise I'll just chalk this up as you being emotional right now.

Surely you can't be that dense...

 

Tell you what, I'll just ignore you in this thread since I'm clearly being "emotional."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree, Your Honor. I believe that a bounty system clearly establishes intent. While all D players may play very hard and try to hit opponents very hard, there is a fine line - and I think you'd get the overwhelming majority of players to agree - between playing the game hard, hitting opponents hard, and having injuries occur as a consequential outcome; and establishing a direct intent to injure prior to the event occuring. It's equivalent to the difference between a clean hard hit and a cheap shot.

 

I agree that the overwhelming majority of players should only wish to play hard. I agree that they should wish to play clean and not cheap. I just suspect, and I have no proof of this whatsoever, that the players that reach the top level of the game have attitudes that differ from yours and mine. We played the game for competition and sportsmanship. Many of them do so as a way to escape poverty and an upbringing that had markedly different teachings than did yours or mine. I think the NFL recognizes that and does not want that generally known which is why the "offense" from their marketing and legal point of view is that this attitude become known and discussed. The NFL wants some attitudes to be unspoken and unknown. Sort of the dark underside of the sport which might well turn off viewers and open up legal actions.

 

I will say this. Any player who participated in, or tolerated a bounty program ought to be prohibited from being a plaintiff in any lasuit against the league involving injuries or safety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First,

Brent are you serious? Rajn has been nothing but apologetic and is the OP in this thread. Are you old enough to remember the 85/86 Bears? You think for a second that those guys weren't trying to rip other players heads off? You think there wasn't some side bets going on with that? If you don't you are naive at best.

 

This is a hugh story because it is going to cost the Saints big time period! Outside of that they are simply the team that got caught.

Gregg Williams appears to be at the center of this and no I don't think the Saints were unaware of the history here when they hired him. Therefore the Saints will deserve what they get for this.

 

A lifetime ban for Williams? Sure. Lets go ahead and take the next logical step towards flag football.

 

A # of years ago my uncle told me he was growing tired of the direction the NFL was moving in regards to softening the sport. He is a lifelong Raiders fan and remembers the days when football was a much more violent sport than it is today. I argued then and still argue today that some steps had to be taken to insure the long term health of the players. This situation doesn't change my view here one bit.

 

I have read all the responses in this thread and they are basically what I expected. Some tongue in cheeck ripping on the Saints, some realistic views of the probability that this is happening in more than one locker room in the NFL, and of course a few of the OMG please dismantle the Saints now, they are criminals, reponses.

 

The Saints will see suspensions, fines, and loss of some valuable draft picks. ESPN had a poll yesterday on this and I voted that all of the above was appropriate. I have seen nothing in this thread that shows rajn viewing this any differently.

 

Outside of the obvious punishment there is something that I think will hurt the Saints as well as any Gregg Williams coached defense in the future. I can see a very real possibility that the Saints will be called much tighter on the defensive side of the ball by the refs than other teams may be called. I think this will just be a natural reaction by the refs and again something the Saints will have earned by allowing this to happen. That will be a competetive advantage for anyone the Saints play in the near future.

I agree with some of this, but I think you miss the mark a bit as well. I've yet to call you or Rajn a blind elton john wearing homer or whatever, but I think because you're a die hard of the saints, your heart is in this a little more than your head. That's not a shot at either of you, and any diehard fan would probably do the same. To try and say it's going on in other locker rooms is a cheap and easy out. The league has 18,000 documents with over 50,000 pages of evidence. This is about the saints and no one else. Other teams were not as arrogant about it IF it was going on. Regardless, I don't see it going on anywhere as full scale as the Saints appear to be.

Banning Greg Williams doesn't turn the sport into flag football, and it doesn't make the league soft. There have been instances where players have filed lawsuits over intentional injuries. What's to say Earl Bennett, Brett Favre, or whoever don't file a lawsuit against the player, coach, and Saints? You have to cut the cancer out, and the cancer is GW. To intentionally aim to injure a player, and take away his ability do his job, as well as open the possibilities of crippling him have NO PLACE in the NFL. And if that happened in the olden glory days, then the olden glory days were Oprahing stupid. Just because it happened long ago doesn't make it cool or acceptable. I'm not here to say GW should face a lifetime ban, just as I didn't think Mike Vick should, or Belichick should as some suggested. He'll be suspended for an amount of time by people who are way more in the know than us. Whatever they decide will be fitting.

That being said, I don't think at this point we can muddy the entire Saints organization. None of us at this point know who knew what. We know the front office knew, so it's safe to assume SP knew. We know that the defensive staff and defensive players knew. I've heard 22-27 defensive players were "in" on the bounty program. If "in" means actively participating in it, then they should be punished, be it fines/suspensions, or both. If it means had knowledge of it, then I think you have to go after the guys that were participating and collecting money. But to lump the entire organization in, as well as the attacks on fans is a bit overboard.

And the only competetive advantages opposing offenses will have against the Saints is getting to play the saints defense. Yes, the Saints will be under the microscope, but that doesn't mean the refs will flag the Saints every chance they get. If the Saints are under the microscope, so will the refs calling the games. The last thing they want is to be for or against or partial to a team. Again, I think this is kind of a poor me cop out.

I do think Rajn and Tbimm are two of the better huddlers here, and to attack them or say they're elton john glasses wearing homers is weak.

 

 

Oh, and anything Darren Sharper says we can throw out of the window. That guy was a Megan Fox as a Packer, Viking, Saint, and as a retired Megan Fox. Listening to him on NFL32 reminded me of a teenager who was in trouble using the deny, deny, deny defense.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I did not know any of the details on it Gregg Williams D's have been accused of this before and that is now coming out. Favres comments on this being a pretty common practice I believe back up my statement that this is going on in other locker rooms as well. At very least it makes my comment less than a cheap and easy way out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information