87 replies to this topic

[Bronco Billy]

bpwallace49, on 09 March 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

Was jake Plummer under shanny?

Plummer was a finished product by the time he came over from AZ

[Azazello1313]

bpwallace49, on 09 March 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

Was jake Plummer under shanny?

yeah, but he wasn't really a "young QB" when he arrived.  he was a mediocre free agent who probably had his most effective seasons in denver.

[Savage Beatings]

Ballsy move... I like watching it happen!

[Azazello1313]

Bronco Billy, on 09 March 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

Cutler was arguably the only exception, and there are some who would say the jury is still out on him (I would not number myself among that group).  Not sure how anyone would consider Griese a long term solution as a NFL QB.  Shanahan wasn't a HC when he had his role in Elway's development.  Do you consider Beck starting material as a QB?  And this is a track record over 18 seasons as a HC

So where does the strange part fit in?

I think you have unreasonable expectations.  cutler was supposed to be good and he was, a far better pro than the two QBs drafted ahead of him.  griese was a third rounder who was a capable starter for a number of years.  here are the QBs drafted ahead of griese in 1998: peyton manning, ryan leaf, charlie batch, jonathan quinn.  griese accomplished much more than any of them except that manning guy who went #1 overall.  beck was a scrap heap pick up who had already been cut by two different teams and still may become a decent backup.

[Brentastic]

Bronco Billy is winning right now.  Starnge.

[MikesVikes]

It's a heavy price to pay, but I think RG3 is going to be the face of the league for the next decade.  Endorsements don't win championships, but he's going to be everywhere in the next few years.

[Brentastic]

MikesVikes, on 09 March 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

It's a heavy price to pay, but I think RG3 is going to be the face of the league for the next decade.  Endorsements don't win championships, but he's going to be everywhere in the next few years.

Unless he sucks.  However, you can bet your sweet a$$ that Cam Newton is going to be everywhere.

[Ice1]

Wow,

Time will tell if he was worth the price but no question the Rams made out like bandits.

[Bronco Billy]

Azazello1313, on 09 March 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

I think you have unreasonable expectations.  cutler was supposed to be good and he was, a far better pro than the two QBs drafted ahead of him.  griese was a third rounder who was a capable starter for a number of years.  here are the QBs drafted ahead of griese in 1998: peyton manning, ryan leaf, charlie batch, jonathan quinn.  griese accomplished much more than any of them except that manning guy who went #1 overall.  beck was a scrap heap pick up who had already been cut by two different teams and still may become a decent backup.

So in 18 years as a HC, Shanahan has drafted and developed Cutler and Griese and that makes him a good judge and developer of QB talent as a HC in your opinion?  Oh yeah, and that he may eventually make Beck a serviceable clipboard holder/scout team QB.  And the year he drafted Griese?  Matt Hasselbeck went in the 6th round to GB.  Didn't he compare Griese's ability favorably to Joe Montana?

How about his pick of Jeff Francis at 1.06 in 1989?  Should we list all the others and evaluate what kind of pros they were?  Jeff Lewis?  Jarious Jackson?  Matt Mauck?  Brad Van Pelt?  David Weber?  Did I miss any?

[half_hennessy]

in his defense with Elway it wasn't like he was chasing a QB for along time with the Broncos, Cutler was certainly looking more than capable under Shanahan as far as the other guys go it wasn't like they were high picks what first round QB has he taken that hasn't turned out at all would be my question and I ask cause I have no idea

[Bronco Billy]

half_hennessy, on 10 March 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

in his defense with Elway it wasn't like he was chasing a QB for along time with the Broncos, Cutler was certainly looking more than capable under Shanahan as far as the other guys go it wasn't like they were high picks what first round QB has he taken that hasn't turned out at all would be my question and I ask cause I have no idea

When you draft a QB - no matter what round you draft him in - what do you think the purpose of burning the draft pick is?  Help on special teams?  Maybe umbrella holder on hot sunny days?  Teams draft QBs for one reason (unless they are good enough athletes that they already have drafted them to play a different position before the pick is even made, like WR), and that is that they think the guy can be developed into at least quality depth as QB.

Don't get me wrong - Shanny can do wonders late in the draft with RBs and OLs - as good as anyone else in the league.  But QBs (or WRS)?  He simply does not seem to be able to evaluate QB talent coming out of college worth a damn.

[Ice1]

Bronco Billy, on 10 March 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

When you draft a QB - no matter what round you draft him in - what do you think the purpose of burning the draft pick is?  Help on special teams?  Maybe umbrella holder on hot sunny days?  Teams draft QBs for one reason (unless they are good enough athletes that they already have drafted them to play a different position before the pick is even made, like WR), and that is that they think the guy can be developed into at least quality depth as QB.

Don't get me wrong - Shanny can do wonders late in the draft with RBs and OLs - as good as anyone else in the league.  But QBs (or WRS)?  He simply does not seem to be able to evaluate QB talent coming out of college worth a damn.

Good thing for him then that RGIII is considered a Beast by just about everyone on the Planet.  I also believe he is going to be a star and if so then the deal is justified.

I do agree Shanny is not a great QB coach but he is not bad either. I would be more concerned if he has the creativity to utilize the kids talent.

[electricrelish]

It's not looking so good for Rex Grossman dynasty owners.  Just sayin'.

[Wpob]

If I am RG3, I am a little bummed out.  he now gets to face Philly, Dallas and NYG six times.  he is going to be running for his life.  And they have no weapons on offense of note.  If I am Colston of VJackson, I am smiling because the rRedskins HAVE TO pay one of them to come and be the primary target fro Griffin.

I am not a fan of Snyder or Shanahan so I am sad to see Griffin go there.  However, I think Shanahan gets the boot if they do not shwo any improvement this year.

I would have rather seen him in Cleveland - it would have been better for the league to have a team like Cleveland get him and start to build than the Redskins.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Bronco Billy, on 09 March 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

Cutler was arguably the only exception, and there are some who would say the jury is still out on him (I would not number myself among that group).  Not sure how anyone would consider Griese a long term solution as a NFL QB.  Shanahan wasn't a HC when he had his role in Elway's development.  Do you consider Beck starting material as a QB?  And this is a track record over 18 seasons as a HC

So where does the strange part fit in?

I think you are forgetting the force which was Tommy Maddox.

[Azazello1313]

Bronco Billy, on 10 March 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

So in 18 years as a HC, Shanahan has drafted and developed Cutler and Griese and that makes him a good judge and developer of QB talent as a HC in your opinion?  

I didn't say that.  you said his record of developing young QBs sucks.  I didn't say it was great, just questioned the assessment that it sucks.  and yeah, based on the young QBs he's worked with and what he paid for them, you've got a very thin argument.

Quote

How about his pick of Jeff Francis at 1.06 in 1989?

[Azazello1313]

Bronco Billy, on 10 March 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

When you draft a QB - no matter what round you draft him in - what do you think the purpose of burning the draft pick is?  Help on special teams?  Maybe umbrella holder on hot sunny days?  Teams draft QBs for one reason (unless they are good enough athletes that they already have drafted them to play a different position before the pick is even made, like WR), and that is that they think the guy can be developed into at least quality depth as QB.

Don't get me wrong - Shanny can do wonders late in the draft with RBs and OLs - as good as anyone else in the league.  But QBs (or WRS)?  He simply does not seem to be able to evaluate QB talent coming out of college worth a damn.

ok, you tell me who you consider to be a great evaluator of QB talent, and then I'll point out all the scrubs he picked up off the waiver wire or in the late rounds of the draft to, I guess, prove you wrong.  that should be fun.

Ditkaless Wonders, on 10 March 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

I think you are forgetting the force which was Tommy Maddox.

drafted and gone long before shanahan was the head coach.

[Wolverines Fan]

Wolverines Fan, on 09 March 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

I was thinking the same thing.

I hope the Redskins are smart enough to add some talent around him.

Edit: Got to thinking...I was really down on Cam Newton this time last year and look how well he did.

[Kris N]

a lot of picks to give up, but shanahan knew this was their ONLY shot at getting their qb. peyton was not going to sign in the NFC east. flynn is a bad fit for shanahan's offense. It was RG3 or rex grossman again.....if faced with this choices, you would have sold the farm for RG3 too.

colston could easily end up in washington. pair him with santana moss  with hankerson still developing. fred davis is a stud. helu has proven to be productive when given a chance. they have nice weapons on offense. need to upgrade their interior O line and defense, but this is a start.

[Footballjoe]

I went to bed before this broke last night. When I cut on the TV I was "shocked" to see what happened. My first reaction was "Oh yeah" Then I saw the price. Wow! That ws a steep. Right now the Skins are not watchable. Bringing in older QB's was getting old and was a big waste. You could go after a lesser talet than RG3 but he seems to be a great talent by most everyone. Now at least we have hope. Heck, we can't get any worse.


Congrats to the Rams.

[Bronco Billy]

Azazello1313, on 10 March 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

Yeah, the Francis pick should have been 6.01, not 1.06.  My bad.

[BeeR]

Poor S Jackson.  After busting his gut on a team which had little else for years and they finally start laying the groundwork for a potentially great team for years to come, he's this close to retirement.

[LordOpie]

Was 1.02 very expensive or is this the new norm considering the rookie salary cap?

[nuke'em ttg]

BeeR, on 10 March 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Poor S Jackson.  After busting his gut on a team which had little else for years and they finally start laying the groundwork for a potentially great team for years to come, he's this close to retirement.

that was my 1st thought, dude has had a hard row ta hoe

[MikesVikes]

I just don't get the argument that free agent QBs are going to crawl into the fetal position if they have to play the Cowboys twice a year or any other team for that matter.  The great QBs should consider themselves capable of that.