bpwallace49 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Whatever, Chicago Packer fan Keeping Angelo around that long was not a smart move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Here's context: Now check out the stats from here for 2007-2011. Forte's 13 mil guaranteed offer was pretty well in the ballpark. He doesn't produce like AP, everyone and their mother knows DWill was the beneficiary of a Jedi Mind Trick, and the # closest to Forte's offer was Turner who was coming off a 1700/17 season the likes of which Forte hasn't really pushed. So, you know what? He got a fair offer if you looks at this stuff and he took a pass because he was asking for AP money while guessing he'd get better than Turner, but he has scored 21 TDs in 4 years. Turner almost clipped that in a single season. That offer was fine, and the stats pretty well back that up. http://www.fftoday.c...sort_order=DESC I think it was a low offer. You can claim "jedi tricks" but the market is the market and Dwill is part of that. Turner's contract from 4 years ago isn't exactly the best comparison. The reason Forte's TDs aren't that high is because the Bears offense has been a chit sandwich for most of the season except when they run often. Forte has been over 50% of the offensive production. I think he is asking for a ton of money (like every player does) but he deserves a contract with more than 13 mil guaranteed. If they fanchise him two years in a row he'll make more than that guaranteed money. And personally I think RBs are getting screwed a bit in the franchise money department with all things considered. And there is no way he is getting dealt Gil. But let's say he could actually hit the free market. He would immediately make more than the Bears offer. The top 5 offers would be better than what the Bears put out there. So I believe the market for Forte's services is higher than what the Bears offered and would be proven correct if the system wasn't rigged so that the owners could ignore players who played out their contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think it was a low offer. You can claim "jedi tricks" but the market is the market and Dwill is part of that. Turner's contract from 4 years ago isn't exactly the best comparison. The reason Forte's TDs aren't that high is because the Bears offense has been a chit sandwich for most of the season except when they run often. Forte has been over 50% of the offensive production. I think he is asking for a ton of money (like every player does) but he deserves a contract with more than 13 mil guaranteed. If they fanchise him two years in a row he'll make more than that guaranteed money. You're right, a few years ago passing wasn't dominant like it is now. And it's clear you didn't look at the stats page and did my suggested comparisons. It's debatable DWill got overpaid but what isn't debatable is that his 1800/20 touchdown year that led to said contract is another set of season stats Forte hasn't sniffed since his rookie year, and then he didnt get all that close. How hard is that to understand? He hasn't produced as well as these guys yet won't accept money that reflects what he has done. His offer was in the ball park for 5 years and now he has to accept 50% guaranteed in a single season what he would have made in that 5. The alternate he's pouting over on twitter(franchise tag) is going to pay him 75% of what he made all of last year EVERY WEEK this season. Dude needs to get over it. He's getting his money and has gone from hi ceiling to hi maintenance because they signed his backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White lightning Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I truly believe that the Bears offer to Forte of 14 million guaranteed was a fair INITIAL offer. This is especially true considering the recent over valued contracts of CJ and D. Williams. I also think Forte’s INITIAL demand of 20 million guaranteed was fair considering Arian Foster got 20 and M. Lynch got 17. Now that both parties have made their initial demand and offers, it’s time to meet somewhere in the middle which should be about 18 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Signing Mike Bush hurts Forte's bargaining power here. I think he signs the one year tender and tries to go elsewhere or may even request a trade. The man outplayed his contract, but came to work every day. the Bears lowballed and now are taking Forte's stand up attitude for granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Signing Mike Bush hurts Forte's bargaining power here. I think he signs the one year tender and tries to go elsewhere or may even request a trade. The man outplayed his contract, but came to work every day. the Bears lowballed and now are taking Forte's stand up attitude for granted. This.. He works for 4 years as a full-time feature back making the league minimum, and then they go and sign Bush to take the leverage out of your hands... Yeah, I don't blame Forte one bit here if he decides to sit, use what little leverage he has left with them, whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogansghost Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Oh dude, don't think for a minute that he won't play. Do you really believe that? I believe the new collective bargaining agreement takes leverage away from the players. Regardless of that, how many players have actually sat an entire season in recent memory aside from Vjax? Sitting out the season will only hurt his chances of a long-term deal. Forte has no leverage and unfortunately is going to have to suck this one up and prove his worth.... again. Sitting out seemed to work much better for CJ last year - when Matt showed up, lit it up like you suggest, and suffered an injury. Team rewarded him with a lowball offer based relative to what others at his level make at the position. If he feels that he's underpayed - why should he show up without at least trying to hold out for a bit first. He's been following the company line all along and it's got him nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 This gives weight as to why players should hold out when they outplay their contracts. You wont be rewarded later . . . . case in point - Matt Forte. Argumnet against- Dwill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White lightning Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Sitting out seemed to work much better for CJ last year - when Matt showed up, lit it up like you suggest, and suffered an injury. Team rewarded him with a lowball offer based relative to what others at his level make at the position. If he feels that he's underpayed - why should he show up without at least trying to hold out for a bit first. He's been following the company line all along and it's got him nowhere. How is an initial offer of 14 million guaranteed a "low ball offer"? I have issues with the McCaskeys like every other Bears fan, but it's not like they said take it or leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 13 mill guaranteed seems like an obvious low-ball offer based on the current market value. The signing of Bush reeks of mismanagement unless they were purposely trying to alienate Forte. When Lynch re-signed with the Hawks, one of the other players mentioned how appreciative he was that current management will reward players that give total effort and get results. I wonder what Forte's teammates think about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Why would Forte want to come back after next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Keep in mind that this is the same organization that every time Urlacher or Briggs complain about their contract, they get paid more. Precedence has been set . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Sitting out seemed to work much better for CJ last year - when Matt showed up, lit it up like you suggest, and suffered an injury. Team rewarded him with a lowball offer based relative to what others at his level make at the position. If he feels that he's underpayed - why should he show up without at least trying to hold out for a bit first. He's been following the company line all along and it's got him nowhere. Sure, he might sit out through TC and pre-season but he has no leverage really so if he wants to get paid, he'll be forced to play. I'm not saying what the Bears are doing is right, because it's not. I'm a big fan of Forte and he deserves to get paid. Unfortunately, the Bears have the leverage which sucks for Forte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) And Barber just retired. 28yo?? Edited March 23, 2012 by rocknrobn26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White lightning Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Keep in mind that this is the same organization that every time Urlacher or Briggs complain about their contract, they get paid more. Precedence has been set . . . . You're just plain wrong about Briggs. The following timeline clearly indicates that if any "precedence" has been set, it's that the Bears are treating Forte the same way they treated Briggs. 2003 - Drafted in 3rd round and signed a 4 year 2.06 million contract. 2004 - Second alternate pro bowl selection 2005-06 - Pro bowl selection March 07 - Demanded trade and said "I've played my last snap for them" and "I'll do everything that's within my power to not be with this organization." 2007 - Team franchised him at 7.2 million and he played the entire year despite sitting out mini-camp. 2008 - Signed to a 6 year 36 million dollar contract with 14 mil guaranteed. Sept 11 - Asked for raise........ STILL WAITING! Like I've said five times before, the Bears INITIAL offer of 14 mil guaranteed was a fair initial offer, and if they countered his demand of 20 mil with a final offer of 16-17 mil guaranteed Forte should take it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White lightning Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 This.. He works for 4 years as a full-time feature back making the league minimum, and then they go and sign Bush to take the leverage out of your hands... Yeah, I don't blame Forte one bit here if he decides to sit, use what little leverage he has left with them, whatever... Forte has not been paid the league minimum (2008 - 295K, 2009 - 310K, 2010 - 325k, 2011 - 340k) over the past 4 years. Including signing bonus and incentives, he made 3.78 million during that time period which was about 3x the league minimum. Does he deserve a nice contract? Yes. Does he deserve 20 million (A. Foster money) gauranteed? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 And Barber just retired. 28yo?? Which gives Forte some of his leverage back. Cripes, this has become General Halas Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Forte has been underappreciated and undercompensated. I do not believe in making up past pay inequities in contracts, but going forward I believe he desearves some respect. I do not see why they cannot construct a contract that gives him some assurance of financial wellbeing through 20 million guaranteed, almost no salary this year, and an incentive ladened deal going forward for the next five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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