49 replies to this topic

[keggerz]

There are many that say that your opponents lineup doesn't matter, just start the players that score the most points...well that stance won't hold water with a new concept league that I am starting...the league is an IDP league but it has a twist and one that makes you have to manage your lineup more like a coordinator would....reason being is that the defensive players you start will impact the scores of your opponents offensive players...that also means that you may alter your offensive lineup to try and "outsmart" your opponent...the league is called Full Impact IDP and the forum is here: http://forums.thehud...mpact-idp/  the league is comprised of a mix of huddlers and writers/industry guys from other sites:

Scoring is what makes this league so different, and why it has the name of Full Impact:

Quote

5.4.1 "Full Impact" Scoring
The twist of this league is that your defensive lineup will impact your opponents offensive players scores.
"Full Impact" scoring adjustments will also be done in decimal scoring. Decimal Scoring will be to the 100ths (IE: -3.45 points) When "Full Impact" scoring is done, numbers will be rounded up from 5. IE: -2.235 would be adjusted as -2.24 and -3.644 would be -3.64.

Your oppositions offensive scores will be adjusted based on the defensive alignment that you start.
The following defensive alignments indicate how the listed positions will be adjusted.
3-4
DE2, DT1, LB4, CB2, S2......QB: -5%,RB: +10%, WR: -5%, TE: n/a

4-3
DE2, DT2, LB3, CB2, S2......QB: +5%, RB: -10%, WR: n/a, TE: +5%

Nickel(3-3-5, 4-2-5 or "Big Nickel")
DE2, DT1, LB3, CB3, S2......QB: -5%, RB: +10%, WR: -5%, TE: n/a
DE2, DT2, LB2, CB3, S2......QB: -10%, RB: +10%, WR: -10%, TE: +10%
DE2, DT2, LB2, CB3, S2......QB: -5%, RB: +5%, WR: +5%, TE: -5%

Dime (4-1-6)
DE2, DT2, LB1, CB4, S2......QB: -10%, RB: +30%, WR: -10%, TE: -10%

Prevent (3-1-7 or 4-0-7)
DE2, DT1, LB1, CB4, S3......QB: -15%, RB: +40%, WR: -15%, TE: -10%
DE2, DT2, LB0, CB4, S3......QB: -30%, RB: +50%, WR: -30%, TE:+10%

8 in the Box (4-4-3)
DE2, DT2, LB4, CB2, S1......QB: +20%, RB: -40%, WR: +20%, TE: n/a

Goal line (5-4-2)
DE2, DT3, LB4, CB2, S0......QB: +30%, RB: -50%, WR: +10%, TE: +10%

An offensive player can score negative points, and if they do score negative points then "full impact adjustments" will not be made to that players score. Simply put, if a player scores negative points then they stay the same.

We know we may have some bumps in the road with needing to tweak the scoring and such...and as it stands now there isn't a league management site that can accommodate the scoring, so we will be doing quite a bit of manual adjustments...we will be using MFL and hope that in the near future they can tweak their software to handle this type of scoring....anyway, feel free to comment or criticize the concept, scoring or whatever...but one thing is for sure, with this league, that old saying, "start who will score the most points" doesn't hold water anymore.

oh and in case you are curious here are the league owners:
5Rings (Huddler)
Bring Back Pat!!!(Huddler)
buddahj (Huddler)
digitialdan21(Huddler)
T_bone65 (Huddler)
TFord (Huddler)
WashingtonD (Huddler/ffadvisor.com)
Zooty (Huddler)
Antonio D'Arcangelis(FFToday.com)
Gary Davenport (FantasySharks.com)
Scott Gimpel (NFLData.com)
Jim McCormick (ESPN)
Ross Miles (ProFootballFocus.com)
Jeff Ratcliffe (ProFootballFocus.com)
Steve Wyremski (DyntasyLeagueFootball.com)
Steve Gallo/keggerz (Thehuddle.com)

all of the guest owners are on twitter, as are a few others, and the hope is that we can drum up exposure to help this concept stand out and hopefully take wings for others to emulate...so if you are on twitter or any other social media outlet and want to help out by pimping the concept it would be very much appreciated.

Oh and one other thing...I want to say that this concept is something that is born from a league I played in over 10 years ago on Sandbox, it wasn't nearly as in depth like this...but it is where I got the idea and expanded on it.

[detlef]

And the DandDifaction of FF takes another step.  Which is, by absolutely no means, a knock on your concept.  Sounds like a very cool format.

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

detlef, on 29 March 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

And the DandDifaction of FF takes another step.  Which is, by absolutely no means, a knock on your concept.  Sounds like a very cool format.

It may sound like a very cool format but I see a very time consuming league ,,, not that there is anything wrong with that but I couldnt imagine if all of my dyansty leagues had this format ,, I barely can keep up now ,, good luck though and sounds like a lot of fun if you have hours a week to devote to just one league

[MrTed46]

seems cool but at that point i'd rather fire up the xbox360 and play. the one thing i love about fantasy football is it's simplicity of being played, for the most part, once a week and very easily calculate in my head what a play i just witnessed on the tv cost me or benefited me.

i can see the real fanatics loving this

[Big Country]

Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly, each team still ends up with one score that is the combination of FF points scored by their offensive and defensive players, with the added twist that you're choice of defensive lineup has an effect on your opponents offensive players scores. Once those tweaks are calculated, it still comes to which team ends up with a higher score.

Intersting idea, looking forward to see how it plays out.

Obviously the next step is to have the various offensive lineups affect the defesive player performance, and then, after that, get into sliding scales based on the comparison of the offensive lineup and defensive lineup - (ie owner A uses a "spread' offensive lineup vs. owner b's dime defense, they cancel each other out and there is no modification to scores, but if owner B was using an 8 in the box or goalline formation, the modification for WRs is even greater).

[keggerz]

MustOfBeenDrunk, on 29 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

It may sound like a very cool format but I see a very time consuming league ,,, not that there is anything wrong with that but I couldnt imagine if all of my dyansty leagues had this format ,, I barely can keep up now ,, good luck though and sounds like a lot of fun if you have hours a week to devote to just one league

Should be much more time consuming than a normal league...you basically just need to look at your opponents lineup, and at that point it shouldn't be to hard to decide on what you expect to be his optimal lineup and try to start a D that will minimize his points while still being able to maximize on your side...yes it will take a bit more time, but I don't think it will be all that much more....especially in a 16 team league where teams strengths are usually very distinct.

MrTed46, on 29 March 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

seems cool but at that point i'd rather fire up the xbox360 and play. the one thing i love about fantasy football is it's simplicity of being played, for the most part, once a week and very easily calculate in my head what a play i just witnessed on the tv cost me or benefited me.

i can see the real fanatics loving this

Yes, this isn't for the average joe, hel1 for that matter IDP isn't either, but for the "fantatics" as you put it, should prove to be a fun concept.

Big Country, on 29 March 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly, each team still ends up with one score that is the combination of FF points scored by their offensive and defensive players, with the added twist that you're choice of defensive lineup has an effect on your opponents offensive players scores. Once those tweaks are calculated, it still comes to which team ends up with a higher score.

Intersting idea, looking forward to see how it plays out.

Obviously the next step is to have the various offensive lineups affect the defesive player performance, and then, after that, get into sliding scales based on the comparison of the offensive lineup and defensive lineup - (ie owner A uses a "spread' offensive lineup vs. owner b's dime defense, they cancel each other out and there is no modification to scores, but if owner B was using an 8 in the box or goalline formation, the modification for WRs is even greater).

yep for the most part you get it....but the actual next step would be to have IDPs listed with their proper positions (WLB, SLB, MLB, ILB, OLB, FS, SS & CB) and then have teams start "real" defensive sets...but yes I would like it to progress to an offensive set also impacting the defensive players numbers...would only be fair, but due to the amount of manual work we will need to do we aren't going that route at this time.

[flemingd]

Curious, did you do any modeling with this?  It seems this would be much more penalizing to a team with  1-2 super studs than it would to a team of well-rounded scoring.  Not necessarily a bad thing or a criticism, but I'm always interested in breaking down these things in detail.

[keggerz]

flemingd, on 29 March 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Curious, did you do any modeling with this?  It seems this would be much more penalizing to a team with  1-2 super studs than it would to a team of well-rounded scoring.  Not necessarily a bad thing or a criticism, but I'm always interested in breaking down these things in detail.

The honest answer is no, no official modeling was done...but, that is why we are looking at this as a sort of "beta", that way we can tweak as needed and explore it in a "real world" way....also let me say that part of the reason behind this was to try and minimize the value of LBs while increasing the value of CBs, which is normally a very deep position and one that can be ignored in many drafts, at least in the past...the value now lies in helping to curtail the passing game vs the ground game...and also I should point out that a team does NOT have to start any RBs in this league.

[ajh2]

Keggerz,

I see two problems already.

1.)  Players able to neturalize penalties for Defensive Alignment... aka .. Hame of Fame player rule.
2.)  Rivalry games - like Chicago vs. Green Bay, Dallas vs. NYG, etc.

[keggerz]

ajh2, on 29 March 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Keggerz,

I see two problems already.

1.)  Players able to neturalize penalties for Defensive Alignment... aka .. Hame of Fame player rule.
2.)  Rivalry games - like Chicago vs. Green Bay, Dallas vs. NYG, etc.

been a long day, but I don't follow

[BeachBum]

I don't see this as being any great "strategy challenge", thereby 'improving' the game of FF.

Looks like you simply evaluate your opponent's QB and RB(s) and then:

If he has 'elite' high scoring QB, and avg or bad RBs, play Prevent.

If Avg QB, great RB(s), play Goal line.

If QB and RB are pretty even, play either 3-4 or 4-3, depending on which is stronger.

What other difference would this make?

[BeachBum]

Quote

that also means that you may alter your offensive lineup to try and "outsmart" your opponent

So you can keep changing your lineups as your oponent does, until one of you has to quit cause the games are starting? That sounds like fun.

[keggerz]

BeachBum, on 30 March 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

So you can keep changing your lineups as your oponent does, until one of you has to quit cause the games are starting? That sounds like fun.

No lineups are hidden

[godtomsatan]

Big Country, on 29 March 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Obviously the next step is to have the various offensive lineups affect the defesive player performance, and then, after that, get into sliding scales based on the comparison of the offensive lineup and defensive lineup - (ie owner A uses a "spread' offensive lineup vs. owner b's dime defense, they cancel each other out and there is no modification to scores, but if owner B was using an 8 in the box or goalline formation, the modification for WRs is even greater).

I think I saw this on TV on a Sunday morning sometime back in October or so.

[Ice1]

I actually like the concept but the drawback I see is teams are still static. NFL teams today run out so many situational defenses based on down and distance and offensive tendencies based on down and distance I am not sure the desired outcomes will really matter.

Of course the better players will still draft the studs and the expert players will still have an advantage as they better understand the nuance differences in CB's and safeties as an example.

We simply use different defensive position scoring allowing owners to use their flex players to gain favorable matchups without penalizing the offense. In theory our defensive players score at offensive players production levels.

That said I sure hope you track and post article updates as it is a very interesting concept that has potential to improve the IDP experience.  I would have to see it in action given penalizing the offense or defense in a static game seems a bit draconian. I am not sure this idea will alter offensive start decisions and my initial assumption is it may not do much for defensive start decisions as the better player will still play matchup starts based on opponents.

I could be wrong but regardless it is an interesting concept.

Edited by Ice1, 30 March 2012 - 06:09 PM.

[Savage Beatings]

Sounds awesome... can't wait to see how it all pans out.

[Savage Beatings]

How do you think the lineup and scoring options will affect the draft?  And what kind of draft do you guys have?

[keggerz]

Ice1, on 30 March 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

I actually like the concept but the drawback I see is teams are still static. NFL teams today run out so many situational defenses based on down and distance and offensive tendencies based on down and distance I am not sure the desired outcomes will really matter.

Of course the better players will still draft the studs and the expert players will still have an advantage as they better understand the nuance differences in CB's and safeties as an example.

We simply use different defensive position scoring allowing owners to use their flex players to gain favorable matchups without penalizing the offense. In theory our defensive players score at offensive players production levels.

That said I sure hope you track and post article updates as it is a very interesting concept that has potential to improve the IDP experience.  I would have to see it in action given penalizing the offense or defense in a static game seems a bit draconian. I am not sure this idea will alter offensive start decisions and my initial assumption is it may not do much for defensive start decisions as the better player will still play matchup starts based on opponents.

I could be wrong but regardless it is an interesting concept.

Yes, in the NFL they change what they are doing on a whim dependent on situation, and there isn't anyway to allow for that...however, one thing that is pretty constant in FF is that certain teams will have certain strengths...so there will be decisions to make if one week you are facing a team that is stacked at RB but thin at WR...and the week after you face a team with Brees and beasts at WR....one reason I wanted 16 teams to test this was that it would make it harder for a team to have the depth to completely change up what they do...should still be enough depth to do things, but not enough that you can cover all the schemes easily.

Savage Beatings, on 30 March 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

How do you think the lineup and scoring options will affect the draft?  And what kind of draft do you guys have?

I wanted the league to be a dynasty format for a couple of reasons...1 was to make sure the owners were on board for "testing" purposes and I wouldn't have to find a new set of owners if it were a re-draft...2. was to add the dynasty dynamic to the draft and team building aspect....

It will be a serpentine draft (date TBD) and a separate rookie draft (date and serpentine or not TBD)

[Ice1]

keggerz, on 30 March 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Yes, in the NFL they change what they are doing on a whim dependent on situation, and there isn't anyway to allow for that...however, one thing that is pretty constant in FF is that certain teams will have certain strengths...so there will be decisions to make if one week you are facing a team that is stacked at RB but thin at WR...and the week after you face a team with Brees and beasts at WR....one reason I wanted 16 teams to test this was that it would make it harder for a team to have the depth to completely change up what they do...should still be enough depth to do things, but not enough that you can cover all the schemes easily.


I wanted the league to be a dynasty format for a couple of reasons...1 was to make sure the owners were on board for "testing" purposes and I wouldn't have to find a new set of owners if it were a re-draft...2. was to add the dynasty dynamic to the draft and team building aspect....

It will be a serpentine draft (date TBD) and a separate rookie draft (date and serpentine or not TBD)

I do believe the 16 team format along with a solid scoring system will have a positive impact on the league. It also looks like you are separating out DL and DB positions which will further test the skill set of owners. The size of the league will probably determine defensive scheme to a large degree out of the gate but with 16 teams no team should be so stacked that the intricate decision processes will not be considered.

I don't think this would work well in a 12 team league and probably not in a 14 team format but 16 teams might be the real key to success. It should be an interesting experiment and one I look forward to following to see if there are a certain facets that can be transferred in a league I manage.

Good Luck, I enjoy seeing creative ways to improve ownership experiences.

[Sturphy]

I think I just drooled a little out of the side of my mouth...  good luck, sounds like a fun wrinkle to me.

[keggerz]

Savage Beatings, on 30 March 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

How do you think the lineup and scoring options will affect the draft?  And what kind of draft do you guys have?

Draft starts on Monday and if you or anyone else want to follow along you can do so right here:  MFL DRAFT LINK

also to answer the question about what kind of drafts...both are going to be serpentine...we rolled to pick draft slots for the vet draft....your rook slot was then reversed...IE:  1.1 vet = 1.16 rook

[flemingd]

keggerz, on 12 May 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Draft starts on Monday and if you or anyone else want to follow along you can do so right here:  MFL DRAFT LINK

also to answer the question about what kind of drafts...both are going to be serpentine...we rolled to pick draft slots for the vet draft....your rook slot was then reversed...IE:  1.1 vet = 1.16 rook

Would love to see updates with how the scoring is impacted.

[keggerz]

flemingd, on 12 May 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Would love to see updates with how the scoring is impacted.

I have no issues updating this thread if there is interest, and you seem interested so there will be updates....also if you are on twitter we actually have a "social media commish" and he will be tweeting info from a league account: @FULLimpactIDP

[Sturphy]

keggerz, on 12 May 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I have no issues updating this thread if there is interest, and you seem interested so there will be updates....also if you are on twitter we actually have a "social media commish" and he will be tweeting info from a league account: @FULLimpactIDP

I too, am interested.

[Papajohn]

keggerz, on 12 May 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I have no issues updating this thread if there is interest, and you seem interested so there will be updates....also if you are on twitter we actually have a "social media commish" and he will be tweeting info from a league account: @FULLimpactIDP

I am interested in updates too. I think the format is very intriguing.