171 replies to this topic

[keggerz]

No wonder Williams isn't appealing...this is disturbing/disgusting

short youtube version: Youtube
full 12 mins (took a bit to load for me) http://dl.dropbox.co...20Audio_All.m4a

Edited by keggerz, 05 April 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[detlef]

Yeah Greg, either that or let a rather pedestrian offensive squad drop 30+ pts on you and have Alex-Freaking-Smith light you up.  One or the other.

[Egret]

If he's making the money symbol, that's pretty hard to dispute. It's easy enough to get injured in football without someone trying to do it.

[Puddy]

Not surprised he's suspended indefinitely after hearing that.  What a POS.

[Papajohn]

If you think that NFL should be all about extreme brutality and players being modern gladiators and crap like that, how do you defend hitting somebody in the head in the pile after the whistle?

I am looking forward to it? I am sure the answers are retarded funny.

[lennykravitz2004]

Papajohn, on 05 April 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

If you think that NFL should be all about extreme brutality and players being modern gladiators and crap like that, how do you defend hitting somebody in the head in the pile after the whistle?

I am looking forward to it? I am sure the answers are retarded funny.

...about as funny as using the word "retarded" these days...

[Savage Beatings]

I wonder if anyone that was in that room will in fact apologize.  Has Williams?

[Papajohn]

lennykravitz2004, on 05 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

...about as funny as using the word "retarded" these days...

I wasn't trying to be funny. Read some of the comments on Youtube. Maybe retarded isn't the right word, but it is something along those lines.. Stupid, dumb, etc. Pick the word you are most comfortable with then.

[bpwallace49]

keggerz, on 05 April 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

No wonder Williams isn't appealing...this is disturbing/disgusting

short youtube version: Youtube
full 12 mins (took a bit to load for me) http://dl.dropbox.co...20Audio_All.m4a

Holy CHIPS AHOY!.   What a piece of trash.

And how is this to be defended by anyone at all?  How do you tolerate this crap in your organization? How you do meekly pretend you DONT know about it?

-sigh-

[WashingtonD]

It's a good thing he wasn't talking to mostly young impressionable men with potential anger issues and limited educations


oh wait......

[bpwallace49]

On ESPN first take .. . .  Jay freaking Feeley is defending Gregg Williams as being "insprirational, and being taken out of context".  

Rod Woodson is slamming Williams for his words and specifically targeting players and injuries.

[rajncajn]

Shameful stuff. Glad Williams & his mentality are gone, though I'm still betting this kind of talk is pretty common in NFL defensive locker rooms. The Giants openly admitted targeting Williams' head. Not sure why they titled it bounty audio though as there were no mentions of bounties.

ETA: BTW, even though most of it really bothers me, I'm pretty sure Williams isn't referring to "the head" in a physical sense. The ACL part was just sickening.

Edited by rajncajn, 05 April 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[bpwallace49]

rajncajn, on 05 April 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Shameful stuff. Glad Williams & his mentality are gone, though I'm still betting this kind of talk is pretty common in NFL defensive locker rooms. The Giants openly admitted targeting Williams' head. Not sure why they titled it bounty audio though as there were no mentions of bounties.

Becasue on the video he is rubbing his thumb and forefinger together to represent money and saying "the first one's on me"? I think that is the specific bounty references that is being endorsed and encouraged by the coaches.

Ron Woodson says it isnt common to specifically target players with the intent to injure when they have no existing injury. Like talking about Crabtree's outside ACL that needed to be "taken out".

[rajncajn]

bpwallace49, on 05 April 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

Becasue on the video he is rubbing his thumb and forefinger together to represent money and saying "the first one's on me"? I think that is the specific bounty references that is being endorsed and encouraged by the coaches.

Ron Woodson says it isnt common to specifically target players with the intent to injure when they have no existing injury. Like talking about Crabtree's outside ACL that needed to be "taken out".

I didn't see a video, only audio and that was what the person who made the audio captioned in. I didn't watch the subtitles the first time I listened to it & that wasn't what I took away from that comment. I thought he was telling his players to make Alex Smith remember how they dominated the 49ers in the preseason game (the first one).

ETA: And what Woodson says is just plain stupid. How is it more noble to target a players injury? Williams had had a concussion and the Giants specifically said that they were targeting his head due to the concussion. Please tell me how that is better.

Edited by rajncajn, 05 April 2012 - 10:00 AM.

[rajncajn]

While we're on the subject, how about we again bring up how the 49ers celebrated in that game while Pierre Thomas laid unconscious on the field after an obviously brutal, albeit legal, helmet-to-helmet hit. If you guys don't think that this kind of mentality is not prevalent among NFL defensive players & coaches alike then you've been watching a different game.

I'm not defending Williams or that mentality by any means, but some of the outrage and naivety is just mind-boggling to me.

Edited by rajncajn, 05 April 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[bpwallace49]

rajncajn, on 05 April 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

I didn't see a video, only audio and that was what the person who made the audio captioned in. I didn't watch the subtitles the first time I listened to it & that wasn't what I took away from that comment. I thought he was telling his players to make Alex Smith remember how they dominated the 49ers in the preseason game (the first one).

ETA: And what Woodson says is just plain stupid. How is it more noble to target a players injury? Williams had had a concussion and the Giants specifically said that they were targeting his head due to the concussion. Please tell me how that is better.

  so what does "the first one is one me" represent? a bottle of gatorade on the sideline?

If you dont know the difference between exploiting a weakness of an existing injury within the rules of the game( which every team does, hell I did it in college) and talking about specifically injuring a person that HAS NO EXISTING INJURY like with "taking out Crabtree's outside ACL" then you are a lost cause my friend.

There is a HUGH difference between the two. One is using an existing injury against a player that is within the RULES OF THE GAME. The second is a disgusting attempt to deliberately injure a player that is dirty and underhanded. same with "taking out vernon Dabis ankle" in a pile. To "hit a head in a pile" when that is illegal.

if you have one of the dirtiest players in the game in Ron Woodson saying that this is dirty, then you have BIG problems.

[bpwallace49]

rajncajn, on 05 April 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

While we're on the subject, how about we again bring up how the 49ers celebrated in that game while Pierre Thomas laid unconscious on the field after an obviously brutal, albeit legal, helmet-to-helmet hit. If you guys don't think that this kind of mentality is not prevalent among NFL defensive players & coaches alike then you've been watching a different game.

You dont understand the difference in deliberately planning to illegally injure someone and pay them a bounty to do so and

1.) targeting an existing weakness in a player
2.) celebrating a big LEGAL hit.

You are either deliberately or unknowningly trying to distribute blame to other teams. Either way is disingenuous.

[rajncajn]

bpwallace49, on 05 April 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

  so what does "the first one is one me" represent? a bottle of gatorade on the sideline?

If you dont know the difference between exploiting a weakness of an existing injury within the rules of the game( which every team does, hell I did it in college) and talking about specifically injuring a person that HAS NO EXISTING INJURY like with "taking out Crabtree's outside ACL" then you are a lost cause my friend.

There is a HUGH difference between the two. One is using an existing injury against a player that is within the RULES OF THE GAME. The second is a disgusting attempt to deliberately injure a player that is dirty and underhanded. same with "taking out vernon Dabis ankle" in a pile. To "hit a head in a pile" when that is illegal.

if you have one of the dirtiest players in the game in Ron Woodson saying that this is dirty, then you have BIG problems.

He didn't say "the first one is on me," he said "I got the first one" as in the first game or the first hit. Maybe that's what he meant, maybe it wasn't, but adding that caption in there certainly does a great job of painting the picture.

BTW, targeting the head or targeting the knee is illegal whether the player has an existing injury or not.. If you think that just because that player has or has had an existing in injury to one of those areas makes it ok to target that area then you've got some seriously screwed up wiring.

[whomper]

I dont know how many times you guys need Rajn to say that he doesnt agree with what the Saints were doing It sucks when you are a homer and something low rent is going on with your organization but what do you expect the fans to do blood let themselves ? I know you will say "He should stop saying other teams have done it " but its hard to be quiet when people are pounding the bejesus out of your home team for 5 weeks. They get it. It was low rent and discgraceful.

[Trots]

Meh. I'm not that outraged by all of this.  I'd bet that most defensive coordinator speeches are fairly similar.  Us against them, do whatever it takes type mentality.  It's been going on for years and years.

[bpwallace49]

whomper, on 05 April 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I dont know how many times you guys need Rajn to say that he doesnt agree with what the Saints were doing It sucks when you are a homer and something low rent is going on with your organization but what do you expect the fans to do blood let themselves ? I know you will say "He should stop saying other teams have done it " but its hard to be quiet when people are pounding the bejesus out of your home team for 5 weeks. They get it. It was low rent and discgraceful.

Because he just blames Greg Williams and not the Saints and continually brings up other teams that are not relevant to the bounties in the saints organization?  

[bpwallace49]

rajncajn, on 05 April 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

He didn't say "the first one is on me," he said "I got the first one" as in the first game or the first hit. Maybe that's what he meant, maybe it wasn't, but adding that caption in there certainly does a great job of painting the picture.

Maybe he was talking about the first unicorn ride over the rainbow after the game too . . . . the world will never know.

I really need to go back over the whole thread and see all of your "edited" posts to add the equivalent of    "just sayin'" to each post  

Rajn . . we obviously differ on this. You seem to be trying to find any way to keep your team in the "right" and blame it on rogue individuals like williams/vilma, blame it on the violence of the league, the culture of football, and look for that shooter on the grassy knoll. I see it as a complete failure of leadership from coaches and the whole saints organization by not squashing this the second it was brought up over the course of three years and thumbing their nose at the league. I see it as anyone that does this should be brought down swiftly and severely. (that goes for other teams too BTW)

The Saints decided to hire Williams and continue to let him and his bounties continue. That is on the Saints and Peyton, not just on Williams.

I am sorry that this happened to your team. But this crap is complete bullCHIPS AHOY! and unacceptable in the NFL. The game is violent enough without this crap.

[whomper]

bpwallace49, on 05 April 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Because he just blames Greg Williams and not the Saints and continually brings up other teams that are not relevant to the bounties in the saints organization?  

He has agreed that it was a situation he doesnt agree with or condone . I cant fault a guy for some futile spin attempts in the face of a big ole huddle pile on. There is truth to the facts that other teams do this but they didnt get caught and that is what the Saints and their fans have to deal with. I believe his point is that if your team is doing it as well, does it give you a right to cast stones just because you didnt get caught ? Let me be very clear, I think the ideas of bounties is the weakest of the weak and if Dallas was doing it I would be incredibly saddened by it but it happened and punishment has been and is being dished out . I always thought the saints were a little dirty but i dont get joy in gloating this over their fan base

[bushwacked]

whomper, on 05 April 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

I cant fault a guy for some futile spin attempts in the face of a big ole huddle pile on.

He could avoid the pile on by not incessantly trying to spin the situation.  

[bpwallace49]

whomper, on 05 April 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

He has agreed that it was a situation he doesnt agree with or condone . I cant fault a guy for some futile spin attempts in the face of a big ole huddle pile on. There is truth to the facts that other teams do this but they didnt get caught and that is what the Saints and their fans have to deal with. I believe his point is that if your team is doing it as well, does it give you a right to cast stones just because you didnt get caught ? Let me be very clear, I think the ideas of bounties is the weakest of the weak and if Dallas was doing it I would be incredibly saddened by it but it happened and punishment has been and is being dished out . I always thought the saints were a little dirty but i dont get joy in gloating this over their fan base

Or maybe they were told "there is a new sheriff in town" in Goodell and they stopped instead of flipping of the commish for three years? A lot of the issue is not the fact that bounties have existed in the past, but the fact that the NFL specifically told them that it will not longer be tolerated and then continued to do so? Isnt that why some of these penalities to the head coach, assistant coach and organization are so stiff?