171 replies to this topic

[Trojanmojo]

I wouldn't expect to see him back in the league anytime soon after hearing that. The Crabtree part is very disturbing.

[Azazello1313]

well this officially puts any chance at reduced sentence via appeal at nil. for any of them.  or maybe payton was in his office knitting a sweater wearing noise-isolation headphones while this was going on.

Edited by Azazello1313, 05 April 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[bpwallace49]

  On the NFL network now . . . "The Saints were warned to stop the bounty program BEFORE the Lions playoff game." But this audio is from the following game against the 49ers.

Williams is truly an idiot. So is Vitt for not stopping it. So is Peyton for not making sure it was stopped immediately. I dont know how much Mickey was involved (if at all) and is probably collateral damage.

[Chief Dick]

bpwallace49, on 05 April 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

I am sorry that this happened to your team. But this crap is complete bullCHIPS AHOY! and unacceptable in the NFL. The game is violent enough without this crap.

The game is violent because of this kind of thing.

Jeez, you'd think this was the first time this has ever happened. For those of you outraged by this whole thing, what do you think the NFL coaches have been doing for the last 50 years? This has gone on in every locker room by every team for years. This is the type of thing that has created this violent monster. And every fan turned their blind eye to it all these years because it was entertaining. We were enthralled by the big hits and "legal" violence. And it was worse 30 years ago. This type of behavior has been acceptable in the NFL for years.

Now it's changing. And the NFL (and the players) will be better for it. But for people to scream off the rooftops how disgusting and unacceptable and appalling this is needs to take a step back and realize that the NFL was the one who created the monster in the first place by the culture created by all of the teams.

[Azazello1313]

"before you leave the pile, affect the head....early, affect the head....continue to touch and hit the head"

saints homer spin on that one?

"we need to find out about little #10, about his concussion.  we need to put a lick on him right now"

have fun coaching high school for the rest of your life, gregg

[delusions of grandeur]

Man, I'm sure the Saints appeal to Goodell is going to go over real well today

[Bronco Billy]

After hearing this, I sincerely hope Williams never finds work in coaching again.  What a POS

[bpwallace49]

Chief Dick, on 05 April 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

The game is violent because of this kind of thing.

Jeez, you'd think this was the first time this has ever happened. For those of you outraged by this whole thing, what do you think the NFL coaches have been doing for the last 50 years? This has gone on in every locker room by every team for years. This is the type of thing that has created this violent monster. And every fan turned their blind eye to it all these years because it was entertaining. We were enthralled by the big hits and "legal" violence. And it was worse 30 years ago. This type of behavior has been acceptable in the NFL for years.

Now it's changing. And the NFL (and the players) will be better for it. But for people to scream off the rooftops how disgusting and unacceptable and appalling this is needs to take a step back and realize that the NFL was the one who created the monster in the first place by the culture created by all of the teams.

With the emphasis on player safety and more and more players getting early dementia and dying, to ignore warnings by the office to stop and to NOT purposely try to injure someone is beyond stupid. what happened before, happened before. NOW after being warned and trying to deliberately hurt a player like "taking out Crabtree's ACL" is beyond stupid.

They were told to stop 3 years ago and didnt. I wouldnt be surprised if Goodell told ALL teams to stop crap like this when the issues of concussions and post-NFL health care have cropped up. So then they are warned. And they continue to do so afterward. Stupid. The game as evolved. Players are bigger, stronger and faster, and concerns over player safety have increased. THAT makes the "culture" of bounties to deliberately injure players obsolete. the "culture" of organizations is set by their leaders (I.E- Coaches). so the saints coaches get piled on for encouraging that culture.

Goodell is a lawyer. Dont you think he is worried about liability when crap like this is made public? i

[tbimm]

Whomper is wise and it appears that CD kinda see's all of this the same way I do.

As far as Williams goes? I think with this release he is officially done coaching in the NFL. I am guessing this is language used quite often in the NFL but it sounds really, really bad considering the whole scope of this issue. No team is going to want to align themselves with this guys past. Then again I could be wrong as that's what I thought about Vick when everything went down with him. Hell that guy is even getting endorsement deals again.

[montster]

Chief Dick, on 05 April 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

The game is violent because of this kind of thing.

Jeez, you'd think this was the first time this has ever happened. For those of you outraged by this whole thing, what do you think the NFL coaches have been doing for the last 50 years? This has gone on in every locker room by every team for years. This is the type of thing that has created this violent monster. And every fan turned their blind eye to it all these years because it was entertaining. We were enthralled by the big hits and "legal" violence. And it was worse 30 years ago. This type of behavior has been acceptable in the NFL for years.

Now it's changing. And the NFL (and the players) will be better for it. But for people to scream off the rooftops how disgusting and unacceptable and appalling this is needs to take a step back and realize that the NFL was the one who created the monster in the first place by the culture created by all of the teams.

I think Williams' words were way over the top (and probably over the line), but if you hadn't told me it was him, I would've assumed this was a generic speech representative of probably any defensive coordinator in the league (maybe without the "rubbing his thumb and forefingers together" part). If someone decided to post audio of other teams' coaches giving pregame speeches, I'm betting there would be a lot of embarrassed fans out there.

[Darkhorse1251]

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I'm outraged about a coach trying to stir his defense into a frenzy. I've played Football, I get it. I don't believe Williams will ever coach professionally ever again. The fact is, the second that you endorse injuring someone, it without a shadow of a doubt makes you guilty of whatever happens on that field. Luckily in Williams' case, his defense wasn't able to hurt any of the aforementioned players in the audio, otherwise you could expect lawsuits up the yin yang. With this coming out, you know some player from some team that got hurt in a game against the Saints will cry foul. That's why the suspensions were so harsh. The game is as violent as it has ever been, with the speed and strength of players today. (with the exception of hits on QB.) There is no need to back that up with malice. I think this serves as a wake up call to the League, that the headhunting philosophy that has existed in Football from the start, needs to stop.

[chester]

WashingtonD, on 05 April 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

It's a good thing he wasn't talking to mostly young impressionable men with potential anger issues and limited educations


oh wait......

What are you talking about. 100% of them went to college.

[SpinalTapp]

Williams is finished. There is pushing your team to be aggressive and there is encouraging your players to commit crimes on the field. He trampled over the line.

The next time you will see Williams on TV will be when someone is playing his character in the YouTube remake of "A Few Good Men"...

"Did you order the bounty hits?"
"I did the job I was hired to do"
"Did you order the bounty hits"
"You're ____ damn right I did!"

Edited by SpinalTapp, 05 April 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[godtomsatan]

If a guy's got a bad knee, hit him in the knee. If a guy's got concussion problems, hit him in the head. If the guy has shoulder issues, throw him hard o the ground. This is an extremely physical sport, and it would not shock me at all if this is a generic speech given by every NFL defensive coach in meetings throughout the week of every single NFL game.

Outside the obvious bounty stuff, I'm honestly failing to see how this is drastically different than the bulk of high school level pregame speeches.

[Jackass]

godtomsatan, on 05 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

If a guy's got a bad knee, hit him in the knee. If a guy's got concussion problems, hit him in the head. If the guy has shoulder issues, throw him hard o the ground. This is an extremely physical sport, and it would not shock me at all if this is a generic speech given by every NFL defensive coach in meetings throughout the week of every single NFL game.

Outside the obvious bounty stuff, I'm honestly failing to see how this is drastically different than the bulk of high school level pregame speeches.

Which is why Belichek (and other coaches i'm sure as well, although maybe not to the same extent) doesn't disclose injuries.

[piratesownninjas]

Kevin Seifert of espn had this note...

By now you've either heard, or heard about, the explosive speech former New Orleans Saints Gregg Williams gave before January's playoff game against the San Francisco 49ers. In it, Williams encourages his players to injure specific 49ers opponents and reportedly made a hand signal that suggested he would reward the first injury with cash.

The release of the audio has spurred wide reaction, but to me the most disappointing one is the one that suggests it was typical in content and style to what NFL players regularly hear. If you read through ESPN analyst Tim Hasselbeck's Twitter timeline, you can see a pretty good discussion on that topic.

[img]http://a.espncdn.com...rent=false[/img]

Sitton

To me, that's an unfair over-generalization that glosses over the line Williams crossed. It's no different than saying every Democrat advocates for welfare and every Republican rails against science.

There are plenty of NFL coaches who do their jobs differently, and no less effectively, than the way you heard Gregg Williams do his. So I was glad to see at least one active player stand up for them Thursday morning via Twitter.

Green Bay Packers guard Josh Sitton listened to the audio and tweeted: "Gregg Williams sounds like a complete [expletive]. Glad he got suspended!"

When asked by a follower if Packers coaches talk to players that way, Sitton replied: "hell no."

It's fair to point out that Packers players, much like their division opponents in Minnesota, have a significant and emotional tie-in to this story. The NFL's official report on the Saints' bounty program mentioned four targeted quarterbacks by name. One was the Packers'Aaron Rodgers and another was Brett Favre when he played for the Vikings.

I don't want to come off as a prude. I understand that football is controlled barbarianism and that it's common for coaches to encourage players to "knock the [expletive] out" of their opponents. But the Williams speech, especially the references to causing specific injuries to certain players, goes way beyond the line of acceptable violence in the NFL. This is not normal, it shouldn't be acceptable and I'm glad that Sitton, for one, was willing to say so.

*UPDATE: Sitton has added a few more thoughts in tweets directed at ESPNMilwaukee.com corporate cousin Jason Wilde. Tweeted Sitton:

"I want to be clear. Our sport is violent and you are supposed to hurt one another, but this guy took it over the top. trying to take someone out of a game or end a career is a chicken [expletive] move! we work our entire lives to make it to the NFL. And some guy wants to pay players to hurt people. NOT cool! next thing you know some [expletive] will be waiting for me by my car with a crowbar! That's some Tonya Harding [expletive]!"

[electricrelish]

Look, I don't want to pile on here, but was all that nasty language really necessary?  Shame on you, Greg Williams.

Edited by electricrelish, 05 April 2012 - 05:15 PM.

[stethant]

Hmm....the timing of this release is nonrandom, either to buttress Goodell's future decision to deny their appeal, or as a set-up to planned player punishments.

I imagine the league office could media nuke these guys by slowly releasing this type of prejudicial material over the next few months.

[Jackass]

piratesownninjas, on 05 April 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Kevin Seifert of espn had this note...

By now you've either heard, or heard about, the explosive speech former New Orleans Saints Gregg Williams gave before January's playoff game against the San Francisco 49ers. In it, Williams encourages his players to injure specific 49ers opponents and reportedly made a hand signal that suggested he would reward the first injury with cash.

The release of the audio has spurred wide reaction, but to me the most disappointing one is the one that suggests it was typical in content and style to what NFL players regularly hear. If you read through ESPN analyst Tim Hasselbeck's Twitter timeline, you can see a pretty good discussion on that topic.

[img]http://a.espncdn.com...rent=false[/img]

Sitton

To me, that's an unfair over-generalization that glosses over the line Williams crossed. It's no different than saying every Democrat advocates for welfare and every Republican rails against science.

There are plenty of NFL coaches who do their jobs differently, and no less effectively, than the way you heard Gregg Williams do his. So I was glad to see at least one active player stand up for them Thursday morning via Twitter.

Green Bay Packers guard Josh Sitton listened to the audio and tweeted: "Gregg Williams sounds like a complete [expletive]. Glad he got suspended!"

When asked by a follower if Packers coaches talk to players that way, Sitton replied: "hell no."

It's fair to point out that Packers players, much like their division opponents in Minnesota, have a significant and emotional tie-in to this story. The NFL's official report on the Saints' bounty program mentioned four targeted quarterbacks by name. One was the Packers'Aaron Rodgers and another was Brett Favre when he played for the Vikings.

I don't want to come off as a prude. I understand that football is controlled barbarianism and that it's common for coaches to encourage players to "knock the [expletive] out" of their opponents. But the Williams speech, especially the references to causing specific injuries to certain players, goes way beyond the line of acceptable violence in the NFL. This is not normal, it shouldn't be acceptable and I'm glad that Sitton, for one, was willing to say so.

*UPDATE: Sitton has added a few more thoughts in tweets directed at ESPNMilwaukee.com corporate cousin Jason Wilde. Tweeted Sitton:

"I want to be clear. Our sport is violent and you are supposed to hurt one another, but this guy took it over the top. trying to take someone out of a game or end a career is a chicken [expletive] move! we work our entire lives to make it to the NFL. And some guy wants to pay players to hurt people. NOT cool! next thing you know some [expletive] will be waiting for me by my car with a crowbar! That's some Tonya Harding [expletive]!"

good stuff there.

[rajncajn]

bpwallace49, on 05 April 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Because he just blames Greg Williams and not the Saints and continually brings up other teams that are not relevant to the bounties in the saints organization?  

I do? You obviously haven't been following. Now do I think that Payton and Loomis are just as guilty & deserve the punishment they got? The answer is no. Punishment, yes... but punishment that is more in line with blowing off the NFL and not following up with what they were told to stop doing. Sorry, I just don't think a year suspension & coughing up $5.8 million fits that crime. And yes, I DO blame the vast majority of this on Williams and I hope he never coaches again.

In the audio Williams talks about targeting Crabtree's ACL & Williams concussion, which to me is pretty sickening. However, I am not naive enough to think that kind of talk is not fairly common in NFL locker rooms. I do agree that there is no place for that mentality and I feel like I have the right to point out where other teams have shown that very same mentality and it pisses me off that you and others think I am only doing it to detract from what the Saints defense was doing.

bpwallace49, on 05 April 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

I really need to go back over the whole thread and see all of your "edited" posts to add the equivalent of "just sayin'" to each post  

I edited three posts because I had something to add and didn't want to add another post. I didn't know that was frowned upon.

Azazello1313, on 05 April 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

"before you leave the pile, affect the head....early, affect the head....continue to touch and hit the head"

saints homer spin on that one?

"we need to find out about little #10, about his concussion.  we need to put a lick on him right now"

have fun coaching high school for the rest of your life, gregg

“The thing is, we knew he had four concussions, so that was our biggest thing, was to take him outta the game."

“He’s had a lot of concussions,” We were just like, ‘We gotta put a hit on that guy...’ Sash did a great job hitting him early and he looked kind of dazed when he got up.  I feel like that made a difference and he coughed it up.”

It's wrong whether Gregg Williams says it or the Giants say it, but nobody seems to give a damn that they did.

Bronco Billy, on 05 April 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

After hearing this, I sincerely hope Williams never finds work in coaching again.  What a POS

Agree 100%

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

bpwallace49, on 05 April 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Holy CHIPS AHOY!.   What a piece of trash.

And how is this to be defended by anyone at all?  How do you tolerate this crap in your organization? How you do meekly pretend you DONT know about it?

-sigh-

Exactly what a SNICKERSing joke from top to bottom! I use to actually pool for and like the organization but employing scumbags like these makes me hate everyone there... and that's sad because I'm sure there's some that opposed it but now they are all lumped in with it.

SNICKERSing pathetic d-bags every last one of them

And I get it that everyone has there own opinion on it as some feel it has gone on for years blah blah blah.. Save it they warned them 3 years ago and again before playoffs yet they just couldn't keep there hands outta the cookie jar and now there getting bitch slapped for it. Deal with it cause you play with fire you're gonna get burned

Edited by Sunday Couch Potatoe, 05 April 2012 - 10:36 PM.

[coordi88]

acl line is disgusting.

rest is pretty meh

[CaptainHook]

rajncajn, on 05 April 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Now do I think that Payton and Loomis are just as guilty & deserve the punishment they got? The answer is no. Punishment, yes... but punishment that is more in line with blowing off the NFL and not following up with what they were told to stop doing. Sorry, I just don't think a year suspension & coughing up $5.8 million fits that crime.

I agree that this kind of talk goes on, to an extent, in every NFL locker room.  Especially targeting injuries.  Defensive Co-ordinators are always the crazy rah-rah guys, but this was over the top.  I have to disagree strongly with your above statement.  After hearing this tape, and realizing they Saints had been told OVER AND OVER to knock this CHIPS AHOY! off, this clown gets taped giving this speech?  Payton should have fired his ass long ago.  Or Loomis should have.  They are just as guilty as he is for letting it go on.  They deserve EVERY BIT of the punishment they received.

Edited by CaptainHook, 06 April 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[rajncajn]

CaptainHook, on 06 April 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

I agree that this kind of talk goes on, to an extent, in every NFL locker room.  Especially targeting injuries.  Defensive Co-ordinators are always the crazy rah-rah guys, but this was over the top.  I have to disagree strongly with your above statement.  After hearing this tape, and realizing they Saints had been told OVER AND OVER to knock this CHIPS AHOY! off, this clown gets taped giving this speech?  Payton should have fired his ass long ago.  Or Loomis should have.  They are just as guilty as he is for letting it go on.  They deserve EVERY BIT of the punishment they received.

Apparently that is what they planed to do once the season was done after being addressed with this again before the Detroit game. I wish they had fired him on the spot, but then you're pretty much ending your chances in the playoffs.

[lennykravitz2004]

Personally, I'm glad these audio tapes were destroyed just like the Spygate tapes from NE.

Go(o)dell laying down his "fair" laws again.  IMHO, this makes Go(o)dell a JELLY BEAN and liar.  A lot of respect lost for him that these tapes were released instead of destroyed.