40 replies to this topic

[MorningMud]

electricrelish, on 16 April 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Because you demanded the stats, the DAD Administration has been hard at work answering the call to deliver the stats.  As you may have noticed, one cannot generate player stats on 2011 sites any more, so below are two 2012 DAD test sites.  The first link below has QB Passing TD's valued as 4 pts and the second link is QB Passing TD's valued as 6 pts.  

Comparing the top 10 Performer/Player Stats from last season from weeks 1 - 16, one can see some differences.

• QB Passing TD's = 6 pts - Out of the top 10 performers, the top 8 spots belong to the QB position with #9 going to Rob Gronk and #10 going to Wes Welker.
  
• QB Passing TD's = 4 pts - Out of the top 10 performers, the top 5 spots belong to the QB position and the other top 5 positions belong to non-QB's.

Using these links, you can analyze the difference in scoring and unravel yet another one of life's mysteries.

Dy Another Day Test QB Passing TD's = 4 pts
http://www21.myfanta...12/home/72957#0

Dy Another Day Test - QB Passing TD's = 6 pts
http://www20.myfanta...12/home/69920#0

This is great and thank you! I am a horrible human being though and curious how the difference makes them compare to other positions and how that effects their value. Do you guys still have access to the numbers from last year from a sister league with the same scoring system?

[MorningMud]

Nevermind...I just noticed that there are point totals for all positions...

[electricrelish]

MorningMud, on 16 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

This is great and thank you! I am a horrible human being though and curious how the difference makes them compare to other positions and how that effects their value. Do you guys still have access to the numbers from last year from a sister league with the same scoring system?

You can see those in the links above.  If you want another one to check, then you can check You Only Dy Twice which gives QB's 4 pts for Passing TD's.

http://www33.myfanta...12/home/23381#0

[MorningMud]

After looking at the numbers...I think having 6 points per TD gives too much value to the QB position, and creates too much seperation in value between that positions top players and other positions top players. Look at the difference:

Top QB: 538.60 points
Top RB: 355.85
Top WR: 359.20
Top TE: 375.90

Having a 182.75 point difference between the top QB and the top RB seems to defeat the idea of getting a scoring system that allows different positions to have similar values for the top guys. Using that scoring, 8 of the top 10 overall scorers were QBs. I think if you really want 6 points for QB TDs then we need to find a way to adjust the other positions scoring systems to bring the values in line with each other.

[Brentastic]

MorningMud, on 16 April 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

After looking at the numbers...I think having 6 points per TD gives too much value to the QB position, and creates too much seperation in value between that positions top players and other positions top players. Look at the difference:

Top QB: 538.60 points
Top RB: 355.85
Top WR: 359.20
Top TE: 375.90

Having a 182.75 point difference between the top QB and the top RB seems to defeat the idea of getting a scoring system that allows different positions to have similar values for the top guys. Using that scoring, 8 of the top 10 overall scorers were QBs. I think if you really want 6 points for QB TDs then we need to find a way to adjust the other positions scoring systems to bring the values in line with each other.

That's not really an appropriate way of looking at it.  You need to compare QBs to other QBs only.  The point diff between the 10th best of each (QB-RB in your example) will still be large.  4 pt passing TDs essentially only lessens the variance between the elite QBs and the non-elite.  It bridges the gap between the best and worst within the position only.  Other positions have no relevance.

[MorningMud]

I am inappropriate...

If you look at it as just the QBs compared to other QBs, you miss the bigger picture that if someone gets picks 1 through 3, they can draft a player that can get nearly 200 points more then a player at any other position. To me it just places too much importance on a QB and devalues the other positions. It all comes down to preference. I think leagues have more balanced competition when the scoring gives any player a chance to be the MVP of the league. This is why leagues get to vote on matters...

[electricrelish]

MorningMud, on 16 April 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

I am inappropriate...

If you look at it as just the QBs compared to other QBs, you miss the bigger picture that if someone gets picks 1 through 3, they can draft a player that can get nearly 200 points more then a player at any other position. To me it just places too much importance on a QB and devalues the other positions. It all comes down to preference. I think leagues have more balanced competition when the scoring gives any player a chance to be the MVP of the league. This is why leagues get to vote on matters...

Well put.  

[LordOpie]

roll dice!

[MorningMud]

LordOpie, on 16 April 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

roll dice!

YES PLEASE!!!

[electricrelish]

MorningMud, on 16 April 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

If you look at it as just the QBs compared to other QBs, you miss the bigger picture that if someone gets picks 1 through 3, they can draft a player that can get nearly 200 points more then a player at any other position. To me it just places too much importance on a QB and devalues the other positions. It all comes down to preference. I think leagues have more balanced competition when the scoring gives any player a chance to be the MVP of the league. This is why leagues get to vote on matters...

This point is so well made that it will move men to delete their earlier votes and vote the other way.

[MorningMud]

electricrelish, on 16 April 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

This point is so well made that it will move men to delete their earlier votes and vote the other way.

One (or in this case 3 of us) can only hope...

[The Rhinos]

electricrelish, on 16 April 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

What is the different strategy?  Draft an elite QB earlier?

Shhhhhhh. Don't give it away.

[delusions of grandeur]

MorningMud, on 16 April 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

I am inappropriate...

If you look at it as just the QBs compared to other QBs, you miss the bigger picture that if someone gets picks 1 through 3, they can draft a player that can get nearly 200 points more then a player at any other position. To me it just places too much importance on a QB and devalues the other positions. It all comes down to preference. I think leagues have more balanced competition when the scoring gives any player a chance to be the MVP of the league. This is why leagues get to vote on matters...

Right, but what does it mean when the 16th ranked QB still puts up 277 points? QBs are always gonig to score consistently higher, even fringe starters than are fringe starters at other positions. Thus is the ponit, if ALLQBs score high, then that doesn't make any 1 more valuable, does it?

Well, within reason, because after running the numbers using BigCountry's worst starter method , QB scoring is just a bit more inflated to ~240 point differential from first to worst, while the other positions hover more around 200 point differential (similar to what QBs would be at 4 point TDs). I think anyway, it's tougher to figure out with flexes involved..

But you see the point though? Scoring does not make value. Scoring differential among your other choices to fill a lineup spot is what matters, and according to last year, yes, that does favor 4 point TDs, IMO... What doesn't is how much QBs score, when they ALL score more.

Edited by delusions of granduer, 17 April 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[electricrelish]

delusions of granduer, on 17 April 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Right, but what does it mean when the 16th ranked QB still puts up 277 points? QBs are always gonig to score consistently higher, even fringe starters than are fringe starters at other positions. Thus is the ponit, if ALLQBs score high, then that doesn't make any 1 more valuable, does it?

Well, within reason, because after running the numbers using BigCountry's worst starter method , QB scoring is just a bit more inflated to ~240 point differential from first to worst, while the other positions hover more around 200 point differential (similar to what QBs would be at 4 point TDs). I think anyway, it's tougher to figure out with flexes involved..

But you see the point though? Scoring does not make value. Scoring differential among your other choices to fill a lineup spot is what matters, and according to last year, yes, that does favor 4 point TDs, IMO... What doesn't is how much QBs score, when they ALL score more.

So you still favor 6pts QB Passing TD's?

[delusions of grandeur]

electricrelish, on 17 April 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

So you still favor 6pts QB Passing TD's?

Not any more after running the numbers. If it were a 12 man league, I think the math would work out to where it is a comparable point differential (I know it has in the past in my 12-man leagues), but with 16 starting QBs, it makes the differential a bit too high in comparison to other positions (though only by a couple points or so per game, so I don't think it has as big of an effect as some thought).

Edited by delusions of granduer, 17 April 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[LordOpie]

electricrelish, on 17 April 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

So you still favor 6pts QB Passing TD's?

wait, why do we care what he thinks D