Saints player suspensions

[rajncajn]

Player suspensions will likely be handed down tomorrow. According to Saintsreport.com, Albert Breer has been camped out at the Saints facility all day. Word is that he's told some of the locals that he's there to get the players reactions.

 

So, I wanted to discuss this a little separate from the staff suspensions. What are your opinions on player suspension/fines? Do you think that the players should be judged by the coaches intent, their possible participation or should they be judged by what happened on the field and should previous applied fines be taken into account for past transgressions.

 

In a recent article NFL spokesman Greg Aiello stated that "players are held accountable for their actions on the field," but that was in reference to the Giants targeting of Kyle Williams. So should the Saints players also be judged by specific infractions or do they get penalized based on the assumption that they were targeting players even if no attempts can be proven on the field as in the Giants case? Basically, if Williams says I'll pay you to go out and break Crabtree's leg, but no players actually try to do it, then should they still be penalized for it?

 

I've stated in either the Payton or Williams thread that I think the NFLPA will argue their case based on actual infractions. I'm not sure that will fly if the league has the hard evidence to prove that specific players both participated and/or collected on said bounties, but as noted, the league has yet to provide that data to the NFLPA.

 

Also curious who you all think will get suspended & for how long. My best guesses are Vilma for a full season and both Harper & Will Smith for 6-8 games. It wouldn't surprise me though to see all three gone for the season. The remaining players possibly just receiving fines. But I also think it's possible for the suspensions to be delayed for a while pending appeals.

Edited April 20, 2012 by rajncajn

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Dont suspend them. Just make them play with no pads or helmets for 8 games.

Edited April 20, 2012 by CaP'N GRuNGe

[piratesownninjas]

I don't know too much about which players did what, outside of Vilma. I think he's got to get a suspension+ a heavy fine or a lengthy suspension. Roman Harper should too. Not because of anything I've read about his involvement, but because he's just a doucher.

[stevegrab]

If players admit (or can be proven) to have been putting money into a fund for the knock-out and cart-off type hits then I believe that heavy suspensions are in order.

 

Also if they were informed by the team to stop but continued, and then lied to the league that also deserves stiff suspensions.

 

If however all they prove is that they paid money into a pool for "hard hits, forced fumbles, interceptions, etc" then the suspensions will be less (4 game at most).

 

Players prior conduct, number of times suspended and fined for other infractions with the league (repeat offender type system) should be taken into affect.

 

And this probably includes Scott Fujita, a key player for my team, but I'm ok with it because it is the right thing to do.

 

To answer another point (the basic one I believe) of your post, no the fact that they never hurt anybody because of the bounty system does not mean they don't deserve some serious punishment (say up to the low 4 game number with loss of pay). Intent is more important than them actually being able to follow through and actually injure somebody.

[rajncajn]

If players admit (or can be proven) to have been putting money into a fund for the knock-out and cart-off type hits then I believe that heavy suspensions are in order.

 

Agreed, if there is evidence of players directly paying into a pool to injure other players then the hammer should drop. I'm getting the feeling though that this is not actually the case.

 

Also if they were informed by the team to stop but continued, and then lied to the league that also deserves stiff suspensions.

 

Disagree there, I think that responsibility falls upon the coach or coaches who knowingly allowed it and/or facilitated it and the league seems to agree based on the heavy suspensions given already.

 

If however all they prove is that they paid money into a pool for "hard hits, forced fumbles, interceptions, etc" then the suspensions will be less (4 game at most).

 

That's one part where it gets sticky for me. There have already been multiple teams, coaches & players who have admitted to having the type of system you're describing in place. Not to say that the league wouldn't do it, but I don't think the Saints should be fined/suspended for something others have admitted to as well. IF this is the case then I think the players should be solely judged based on any illegal hits during the course of the games, to which they have likely already paid their fine for.

 

Players prior conduct, number of times suspended and fined for other infractions with the league (repeat offender type system) should be taken into affect.

 

And this probably includes Scott Fujita, a key player for my team, but I'm ok with it because it is the right thing to do.

 

I think you misunderstood here. I was talking about adding fines and/or suspensions to players who were already fined/suspended at the time of the on-field infraction where they were enacting the bounty system.

 

To answer another point (the basic one I believe) of your post, no the fact that they never hurt anybody because of the bounty system does not mean they don't deserve some serious punishment (say up to the low 4 game number with loss of pay). Intent is more important than them actually being able to follow through and actually injure somebody.

 

 

This kinda goes back to the point I brought up before in another thread. in a 3 year period, in which they are said to have this bounty system in place, not a single opposing player was carted off or knocked out during a game. Despite there being a system in place for paying players for said hits, I think it's difficult to prove the actual intent of the players themselves to injure another player. We both know, if a player really wants to take out another player, then it wouldn't be all that difficult to do. To say in 3 years time that no one actually accomplished that alone makes me question the intent to injure.

Edited April 20, 2012 by rajncajn

[rajncajn]

Looks like we'll have to wait at least until next week.

 

NFL: No player discipline in Saints bounty case this week

 

By Will Brinson | Senior NFL Blogger

 

If the NFL wanted to announce any discipline for Saints players involved in the bounty scandal this week, they'd do so before Friday at 4 p.m. ET when the league office closes. But that's not going to happen, the NFL announced Friday.

 

According to NFL VP Jeff Pash, the NFL is "moving towards" the discipline for the Saints players, but won't announce them this week.

 

"We're moving towards making decisions on player discipline," Pash said, via Bob Glauber of Newsday. "Players were clearly participants and clearly have a share of the responsibility."

 

Pash also said, per Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com, that there was no evidence of money for injuries in any other city but New Orleans.

 

With Roger Goodell in Minnesota for Vikings stadium purposes, it's not surprising that the NFL won't announce the suspensions on Friday.

 

Pash also indicated that the league is disappointed that the NFLPA is interested in protecting the Saints players. One problem: that's part of the union's job. (Yes, it's a very sticky situation for the NFLPA, with the Saints going after other players as well.)

 

It's possible that the league could announce the suspensions next week, but with the draft scheduled for Thursday, that could be awkward timing. Still, it would obviously help the Saints to know who will be suspended -- and how long they'll be suspended -- before the draft begins.

[flemingd]

This kinda goes back to the point I brought up before in another thread. in a 3 year period, in which they are said to have this bounty system in place, not a single opposing player was carted off or knocked out during a game. Despite there being a system in place for paying players for said hits, I think it's difficult to prove the actual intent of the players themselves to injure another player. We both know, if a player really wants to take out another player, then it wouldn't be all that difficult to do. To say in 3 years time that no one actually accomplished that alone makes me question the intent to injure.

I think this is why the punishments will be relatively light. I don't think there's much intent to prove, and the hits themselves have already been dispensed with. The speculation all week on Sirius XM has been 2 games for most, 4-6 for Vilma, and all based on participation in the program, regardless of intent to injure.

[rajncajn]

For reference, here are the player fines that have been handed down to the Saints players in the past three years. I would expect that these are the players who I would expect to be included in some sort of punishment:

 

Tracy Porter $7,500

Roman Harper, $22,500

Bobby McCray 20,000

Marvin Mitchell 10,000

Malcolm Jenkins 10,000

Anthony Hargrove 5000

 

The obvious exceptions being Vilma & Will Smith