114 replies to this topic

[detlef]

I get it, the televised crap-fest where LeBron took his talents to SB was a bad idea.  The celebration before they won jack was as well.  If I am, in any way, rooting for the Heat, it will just be so this whole mess can sort of be put to bed.  Even though it never will.

Why?  Because people are so hell-bent on hating these guys that they're re-writing history in order to do so.

There's a fake photo doing the rounds on Facebook with Bird, Magic, and Jordan, all wearing Heat spamshirts saying "We thought about doing this, but already won a bunch on our own"  And that sentiment is echoed over and over.  As if, these guys were good enough to do it on their own, they didn't need to go ditch their teams and find a few stars to hook up with.  Now, I'll give them Jordan, but even he had Pippen.  But that was it and I'm not so sure what Pippen would have been had everyone not been so worried about Jordan.

But Magic?  Bird?  Not taking one thing away from them, but those teams were freaking stacked!  During Magic's run, he had Jabbar to begin with, then added Worthy who absolutely took up any slack when Jabbar started getting old.  That's two guys who are considered all-time greats.  Not to mention a very strong supporting cast including Cooper who was basically the best defensive 2 guard in the game his entire career.  I would say a guy as talented as Magic could win a few rings with that kind of help.

Bird?  He shared his front line with Parrish and McHale, both All-timers and they added DJ who, like Cooper, was a great defensive stopper from the guard position.  Not to mention plenty of solid extras including Walton's swan song where, by the way, he won 6th man of the year in 86.  

If neither Magic, nor Bird, had to ditch their orginal team in order to put on the runs they did, can't we just pretend for a minute that might have had something to do with the fact that their teams were absolutely stacked?  Again, I think Jordan was a different animal, so I'm leaving him out of the discussion.

So, basically, we're crapping on LeBron, Wade, and Bosh, because they didn't happen to have Red Auerbach and Jerry West assembling amazing teams around them, so they decided to try themselves.  And, honestly, I don't think it will work as well because, well, none of those players are as good at being GMs as West or Auerbach were.  But that's another topic entirely.

[WashingtonD]

Agreed with the above, but check out this very well done Kobe hate!

http://probasketball...w-gotye-parody/

[Ursa Majoris]

The really funny part is that the James Gang is doomed to always come second at best, as the Okie City Thunder trio are both younger and better, never mind the Lakers, Spurs and other Western teams better than the Heat.

[detlef]

Ursa Majoris, on 25 May 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

The really funny part is that the James Gang is doomed to always come second at best, as the Okie City Thunder trio are both younger and better, never mind the Lakers, Spurs and other Western teams better than the Heat.

The other funny thing is, provided that happens (and there's a great chance it will), James and Co. will get more crap still because the Thunder won't seem like a "dream team" because they were assembled the old fashioned way.  Nevermind the fact that none of the three guys on the Heat were on teams that were doing as good a job of surrounding them with the sort of talent OKC has put around Durant.  Sure, Miami put together that one team in 06 or whenever, but they'd fallen off by the time the three guys came together.

So, for whatever reason, The Heat are under pressure that no other team is under, all because the players were bold enough to call their own shot.  Cuban was trying to pull this off forever in Dallas and, when he finally won it all, everyone was happy that he finally did.  If these guys manage to win one it will be, "So, you should have won 5 by now."  And I don't think it is just because of the TV show and the big party they threw.  And if it is, that's silly.  I do think it has everything to do with the fact that players are supposed to shut up and play and let the guys in suits do their thing.  Despite the number of guys in suits who have screwed up massively, they'll get the benefit of the doubt.  But the minute the players try and call the shots, it's "OK, but if you don't pull this off in a big way, we're going to crucify you."

In other words, if you're not good enough to just win a bunch on your own, like Jordan or lucky enough to be a top flight player on a team where you're surrounded with other amazing talent, then you're going to have to be happy settling for the crumbs.  Maybe you'll get lucky and poke through for a title, maybe you wont.  But if you dare to try and force the league's hand and make your own break, you're a punk.

Edited by detlef, 25 May 2012 - 01:33 PM.

[MTSuper7]

detlef, on 25 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

In other words, if you're not good enough to just win a bunch on your own, like Jordan or lucky enough to be a top flight player on a team where you're surrounded with other amazing talent, then you're going to have to be happy settling for the crumbs.  Maybe you'll get lucky and poke through for a title, maybe you wont.  But if you dare to try and force the league's hand and make your own break, you're a punk.

Some things can never be lived down. Still, I tend to agree that I wish the Heat would just win a title already so everyone can move on. But they won't. Lebron's mistake was pretty much a ilfe sentence in terms of public appearance. He can donate to charity and visit children's hospitals and be a really nice guy all he wants, but people are only going to remember the arrogant proclamations of championships to be while leaving his hometown city high and dry. He had the right to leave, but his antics gave it a "I'm leaving my wife for a younger, prettier woman" feel. And nobody likes that... just ask Tiki Barber.

Amidst all of this, I feel bad for Eric Spoelstra. That dude has an absolute no-win job, and I can only imagine what it must be like with Pat Riley standing over your shoulder.

[WashingtonD]

Ummmmm...MT where did you come from! Welcome back!

[Hugh B Tool]

First off, the Heat, mostly ,James and Wade have done 99% of this stuff to themselves. Take away the whole friggin'  not 6, not 7 etc before bouncing a ball on the hardwood. Since that time they have epically choked on their own words during series they clearly should have won talent wise. They continue to act like Jackalopes at every turn, Cough, cough Dwayne? And they continue to come up short. Yet now they are backpedaling everychance they get. Be hated because you are good and have a tradition of winning  Championships before continually opening your trap about how good you are or should be.

[electricrelish]

Hugh B Tool, on 26 May 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

First off, the Heat, mostly ,James and Wade have done 99% of this stuff to themselves. Take away the whole friggin'  not 6, not 7 etc before bouncing a ball on the hardwood. Since that time they have epically choked on their own words during series they clearly should have won talent wise. They continue to act like Jackalopes at every turn, Cough, cough Dwayne? And they continue to come up short. Yet now they are backpedaling everychance they get. Be hated because you are good and have a tradition of winning  Championships before continually opening your trap about how good you are or should be.

I'm not sure what you mean by continue.  LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosch went to the NBA Finals Championship in their first year together, which is pretty incredible for their first season.  They are in the Eastern Finals in their second season together.  If they fail to win it all this year, then I guess you can say they continue to fall short, but I'd rather fall short, then stay and suffer in Cleveland or Toronto.  If the Heat wins, will anyone be mad at Dan Gilbert, who promised all of his season ticket holders that the Cavaliers would win a championship before the Heat does?

[Hugh B Tool]

electricrelish, on 26 May 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean by continue.  LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosch went to the NBA Finals Championship in their first year together, which is pretty incredible for their first season.  They are in the Eastern Finals in their second season together.  If they fail to win it all this year, then I guess you can say they continue to fall short, but I'd rather fall short, then stay and suffer in Cleveland or Toronto.  If the Heat wins, will anyone be mad at Dan Gilbert, who promised all of his season ticket holders that the Cavaliers would win a championship before the Heat does?

IF nuff said. Without a healthy Bosch they don't get out of the East. Good team with too much lip flapping coming from the two main stars. Until they produce even half of what they have gauranteed, then frankly they should shut the Eff up.

And to the previous thoughts of Magic and Bird not being able to win a ring by themselves. Check out the Magic mans line as a Rookie mind you, when he replaced Kareem at center and schooled the Sixers.

Like I said before, shut up until you do win, be sincere when you do talk, instead of talking out both, or should I say booof sides of your mouths and act like you've been there before. There and only there is why people have such vitrial for them.

[Ursa Majoris]

electricrelish, on 26 May 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

If they fail to win it all this year

I'm not a hugh basketball expert or anything but I have seen enough to be pretty sure you can take the above to the bank.  There is no way on Earth the Heat will beat either Western Conference finalist over a seven game series and that's assuming they can get past Boston or even the spunky Sixers.

[Avernus]

Ursa Majoris, on 26 May 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

I'm not a hugh basketball expert or anything but I have seen enough to be pretty sure you can take the above to the bank.  There is no way on Earth the Heat will beat either Western Conference finalist over a seven game series and that's assuming they can get past Boston or even the spunky Sixers.

the Celtics won't stand a chance because they can't score enough points to make anyone on the Heat try to hit a clutch shot....my money is on the Thunder...

[bushwacked]

Ursa Majoris, on 26 May 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

I'm not a hugh basketball expert or anything

I couldn't name half of the teams that made it into the playoffs.  I know the Zombie Sonics are and apparently so are the Spurs and Heat due to thread titles in this forum.  While I want the Seattle Arena deal to go through, I'm more excited about a potential NHL team.  If/when Seattle gets an NBA team, it's going to be on the broken spirit of fans going through the same thing that happened here.  I also don't know if I could go to an NBA game while Stern is still the commish.

[detlef]

Hugh B Tool, on 26 May 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

IF nuff said. Without a healthy Bosch they don't get out of the East. Good team with too much lip flapping coming from the two main stars. Until they produce even half of what they have gauranteed, then frankly they should shut the Eff up.

And to the previous thoughts of Magic and Bird not being able to win a ring by themselves. Check out the Magic mans line as a Rookie mind you, when he replaced Kareem at center and schooled the Sixers.

Like I said before, shut up until you do win, be sincere when you do talk, instead of talking out both, or should I say booof sides of your mouths and act like you've been there before. There and only there is why people have such vitrial for them.

At what point did I say they couldn't?  I'm simply saying that the notion of them carrying teams to mulitiple rings is silly, because they didn't have to.  We don't know how many titles either Bird or Magic would have won "on their own", because they were never in that situation, save that one game for Magic.  And that's one game.  Are we going to now pretend that he would have dropped 40+ playing center for an entire season or play-off run?  

Hell, history has even skewed the 1980 series, which is a shame because Magic's performance in the clinching game was among the single greatest performances of all time.  When I got into this debate with a very well-informed basketball fan, he said, "And don't forget, Magic did it in 1980 without Jabbar."  Um, no.  He clinched the finals without Jabbar, but Jabbar was the league MVP in that season and was on the court for all but the very last game of that play-off run.  But, in the rush to separate the likes of Magic and Bird from James even more than they fairly deserve to be so, there is apparently the need to, again, rewrite history to make it even more of a gap.

Edited by detlef, 29 May 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[Hugh B Tool]

Don't get me wrong here as I truely think James and Wade are top 10 players right now and top 50 or better alltime easily. When they play defense, which both are two of the best playing, they are quite frankly untouchable. It's the way they carry themselves and act like their chit don't stink that is the reason people don't like them and root against them. Heck, I was a hugh Wade fan before James got there. Now I think he has jumped on the Ahole look at me train with both feet, which is unfortunate indeed.

[electricrelish]

Ursa Majoris, on 26 May 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

I'm not a hugh basketball expert or anything but I have seen enough to be pretty sure you can take the above to the bank. There is no way on Earth the Heat will beat either Western Conference finalist over a seven game series and that's assuming they can get past Boston or even the spunky Sixers.

I think it's interesting that you expressing the type of self assured confidence that some folks appear to hate the Heat for.  I gotta believe that the Heat are favorites to win it all, but it won't be easy against the Spurs, who specialize in winning championships in shortened seasons.  Of course, if the Heat will win, everyone will want to hang an asterisk on it cause they didn't play the normal schedule.

I think I'd like to see the Heat win.

Edited by electricrelish, 30 May 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[wirehairman]

electricrelish, on 30 May 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I think it's interesting that you expressing the type of self assured confidence that some folks appear to hate the Heat for.  I gotta believe that the Heat are favorites to win it all, but it won't be easy against the Spurs, who specialize in winning championships in shortened seasons.  Of course, if the Heat will win, everyone will want to hang an asterisk on it cause they didn't play the normal schedule.

I think I'd like to see the Heat win.

They specialize in it?  Why?  Because they did it once?

The Spurs are playing the best team ball right now that I have ever seen in the modern NBA.  OKC is a great team, and it is no guarantee San Antonio gets past them.  At the same time, my extremely biased opinion (as a lifelong Spurs fan) is that San Antonio will handle both the Thunder and the Heat and give Timmy D his fifth ring.

[electricrelish]

wirehairman, on 31 May 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

They specialize in it?  Why?  Because they did it once?

The Spurs are playing the best team ball right now that I have ever seen in the modern NBA.  OKC is a great team, and it is no guarantee San Antonio gets past them.  At the same time, my extremely biased opinion (as a lifelong Spurs fan) is that San Antonio will handle both the Thunder and the Heat and give Timmy D his fifth ring.

I'm just taking a friendly jab at the *Spurs.  If the Spurs win it all this year, I'll be impressed with their two asterisk championships.

[Ursa Majoris]

electricrelish, on 30 May 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I think I'd like to see the Heat win.

Judging by last night, you're not alone.  One David Stern is with you.

[Gopher]

Heard on the radio today (NBA analyst Tim Legler chatting on the Doug Gottlieb Show) that the general consensus around the NBA is that San Antonio rolls through the rest of the playoffs, just as they have so far.  I know NBA players don't necessarily decide who is favored by the oddsmakers, etc., but no way are the Heat the favorites to win it all, at this point.  They may be favored to beat OKC if the Thunder somehow manage to come back against the Spurs, but if SA advances, they will be significant favorites over Miami.  Personally, I think the Spurs will lose (and probably multiple times) in these playoffs, but I put the over/under, in terms of total games that they'll lose, somewhere around 3.

[Czarina]

The NBA is like professional wrestling? How can anybody watch this crap? The Heat and their fans (and the media) seem to believe somehow that they are owed a championship. LeBron shrinks in the clutch. Even the refs can't hand it to him.

[Caveman_Nick]

Great game last night.  That late 3 from Pierce was absolute money!!

[detlef]

Missed it, got home in time for the 2nd half but was just exhausted so I went to bed.

Did catch the Spurs/OKC game the night before.  Gotta say, watching Ginobli and Parker seemingly more interested in drawing contact than actually making basketball plays down the stretch was certainly turn me from a guy without a horse in the race to someone rooting against the Spurs.

You could clearly see the look of frustration on guys from OKC.

[Gopher]

So much for the Spurs... Never thought they would lose four straight, after winning 20 in a row.  I must have jinxed them.

[Ursa Majoris]

Amazing how good they are at that age.  OKC could dominate for the next six or so years.  They will destroy whoever comes out of the East.

[Avernus]

Ursa Majoris, on 06 June 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Amazing how good they are at that age.  OKC could dominate for the next six or so years.  They will destroy whoever comes out of the East.

this is where everyone will start labeling Durant the best player in the NBA...over LeBron and Kobe....now LeBron will have to earn the status instead of just being a great regular season player, Durant is everything that the best player should be..