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Our League Needs Help - BEST KEEPER FORMAT?


antasygraham
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I've been in a league for 9 years with the same guys. We are mixing it up. We are going to do a limited keeper format. There's been lots of arguing going on as we are trying to figure it out. Does anyone have a suggestion for the best format?

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I run an auction league w/ FAAB....$200 for auction, $100 for FAAB.

 

Each time can keep up to 3 players max for next year...pay 150% of drafted price OR pay 100% of FAAB price. This adds another wrinkle, as when a player is dropped (say Jamaal Charles last year due to inj.), people have to weigh how much FAAB they will spend to just keep him for next season, but at the same time making that worthwhile since you have to keep him on your bench the entire year.

 

It's fun and competitve this way, as well as it lets everyone be competetive year to year since it's not a lot of keepers...

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I run an auction league w/ FAAB....$200 for auction, $100 for FAAB.

 

Each time can keep up to 3 players max for next year...pay 150% of drafted price OR pay 100% of FAAB price. This adds another wrinkle, as when a player is dropped (say Jamaal Charles last year due to inj.), people have to weigh how much FAAB they will spend to just keep him for next season, but at the same time making that worthwhile since you have to keep him on your bench the entire year.

 

It's fun and competitve this way, as well as it lets everyone be competetive year to year since it's not a lot of keepers...

 

 

That really sounds like an interesting format. If I had to start my keeper up again I would try that one out.

 

 

@OP: In my main keeper league we keep 2 players every year without any punishment for keeping the same player(s) over and over again. It s not a format I would recommend because it really doesn't add anything. The players who are kept would go in the first or second round anyway. We are still fairly new to fantasy and keepers, so we will probably make some changes soon.

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We keep 5 with no restrictions. I'd like to see that change to allow keeping up to 5, maybe a minimum of 3. Have discussed it but meet resistance. Doubt we'd ever get more complex with having keepers cost an higher pick each year then eventually going back into the FA pool.

 

I presume you currently do a redraft and that these keeper rules will be applied starting with next year. Otherwise you're probably going to have a real hard time drafting fair rules now (with everybody looking at how it affects their team).

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Here are links to two recent threads on this, with my responses quoted:

 

Thread 1

 

Thread 2

 

 

No such thing as a "best" format, just a ton of options that have their pros and cons. A few off the top of my head:

 

1. Straight keeper - what you currently have, each team keeps a fixed number of players. An extra option is having a max number of years that players can be kept.

 

2. Optional keeper - Each team can keep up to X number of players, with each player kept costing a draft pick, starting from the 1st round down. (i.e, keep 4 players, you forfeit your first 4 picks). As with the straight keeper, can have a max number of years a player can be kept.

 

3. Increasing Cost keeper - Teams can keep X number of players (or unlimited even), but they cost a pick that is X number of rounds higher than they were drafted. X is usually in the 2-3 range. So, for example, if you are using 3 rounds higher, a player drafted in the 6th round this year would cost a 3rd round pick to keep next year. Any player taken in the first 3 rounds is ineligible to be kept.

 

4. AS CN noted, tons of dynasty options as well involving salary, contracts, etc.

 

A lot comes down to how involved and intricate your owners are willing to go to make it a bit more interesting.

 

 

I suggest a slight hybrid of the two.

 

Owners give up the round +x to keep a player. So if we set x to 2, you would give up a 6th to keep Newton and then a 4th, etc. Players drafted in the first 2 rounds can't be kept.

 

Now, there are a lot of possible variations to this, such as allowing owners to give up the round a player was drafted the first year they are kept and then increasing by the agreed number of rounds.

 

This kind of format rewards owners for finding values late, but doesn't allow them to keep paying an exorbitantly low price forever. It also forces top players back into the draft pool a little more frequently. It also causes some thinking at keeper time as you may hav to decide between being able to hold say a Fitzgerald for 1 year only at the cost of a first, or be able to protect a AJ Green type for say a 7th, and know you could have him for another 3 years - at increasing cost of course

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That really sounds like an interesting format. If I had to start my keeper up again I would try that one out.

 

 

@OP: In my main keeper league we keep 2 players every year without any punishment for keeping the same player(s) over and over again. It s not a format I would recommend because it really doesn't add anything. The players who are kept would go in the first or second round anyway. We are still fairly new to fantasy and keepers, so we will probably make some changes soon.

 

 

Yeah, I have plans to expand it as well. It's a deliciously evil idea. Since the demand to get in this league is relatively high, I was considering starting a second league (similar format to the EPL for soccer fans) where the two people in the 2nd league that make the championship game get PROMOTED to the top-level league. Bottom two teams in the top-level league get demoted. This would not only stop tanking but cause probably a more fierce battle to not be last than the people battling for playoff positioning at the end of the year. I smile just thinking about it.

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In the league I ran for 11 years, we did keeper like this.

 

Each team was required to keep one player from prior year roster. This had to be a position player, not a Def or ST.

 

Each team could then "protect " up to four more player (making five maximum). Each of these players would "cost" them their first,second,third and fourth round draft picks in that order. Therefore, if you protected/kept two players after the mandatory one required, your first pick in the draft would come in the third round.

 

This worked well for us. A team with a kicka$$ roster could keep his core, but at a price. The team that needing a purging could in turn have a shot at the rookies and other free agents in the first three rounds that they might not have had otherwise, giving them a chance to compete. If there is no chance at winning, why play? This is what I didn't like about total keeper leagues. It could take years to fix a bad roster.

 

This worked really well for us as it kept some teams from being stacked year after year by hoarding players, but also made the team that had total scrubs have to live with at least a piece of their past ineptitude or bad luck.

 

A significant benefit to this is... In a league that allows/requires multiple keepers, there is always the chance that a few teams will eventually become powerhouses, especially if they get to keep players and participate in a draft on equal positioning. This gives a team the chance to to feel continuity of a successful roster while gives others the chance to recover from a bad draft or bad luck by allowing them an almost total redraft.

 

We found that this created a greater level of league stability. It is easier to walk away from a league if you have a team of scrubs with little chance of turning it around AND makes it harder to recruit replacement team owners if there is no shot at a decent chance of success walking into a new league.

 

As much as a group gets together, promising "forever commitment" to a league, the reality is that there is almost always turnover at some point in almost every league. This helped us in giving the feeling of a "keeper" league for the stall worts while still making it an attractive option for someone looking to join a league and have the opportunity to build more quickly a core of players worth "calling their own".

 

Most teams usually would protect two or the guys, but rarely lock themselves out of the draft until the fifth round.

 

As in ALL leagues, make sure everything is well thought out, and put in writing!

 

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In the league I ran for 11 years, we did keeper like this.

 

Each team was required to keep one player from prior year roster. This had to be a position player, not a Def or ST.

 

Each team could then "protect " up to four more player (making five maximum). Each of these players would "cost" them their first,second,third and fourth round draft picks in that order. Therefore, if you protected/kept two players after the mandatory one required, your first pick in the draft would come in the third round.

 

This worked well for us. A team with a kicka$$ roster could keep his core, but at a price. The team that needing a purging could in turn have a shot at the rookies and other free agents in the first three rounds that they might not have had otherwise, giving them a chance to compete. If there is no chance at winning, why play? This is what I didn't like about total keeper leagues. It could take years to fix a bad roster.

 

This worked really well for us as it kept some teams from being stacked year after year by hoarding players, but also made the team that had total scrubs have to live with at least a piece of their past ineptitude or bad luck.

 

A significant benefit to this is... In a league that allows/requires multiple keepers, there is always the chance that a few teams will eventually become powerhouses, especially if they get to keep players and participate in a draft on equal positioning. This gives a team the chance to to feel continuity of a successful roster while gives others the chance to recover from a bad draft or bad luck by allowing them an almost total redraft.

 

We found that this created a greater level of league stability. It is easier to walk away from a league if you have a team of scrubs with little chance of turning it around AND makes it harder to recruit replacement team owners if there is no shot at a decent chance of success walking into a new league.

 

As much as a group gets together, promising "forever commitment" to a league, the reality is that there is almost always turnover at some point in almost every league. This helped us in giving the feeling of a "keeper" league for the stall worts while still making it an attractive option for someone looking to join a league and have the opportunity to build more quickly a core of players worth "calling their own".

 

Most teams usually would protect two or the guys, but rarely lock themselves out of the draft until the fifth round.

 

As in ALL leagues, make sure everything is well thought out, and put in writing!

 

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I've been in a league for 9 years with the same guys. We are mixing it up. We are going to do a limited keeper format. There's been lots of arguing going on as we are trying to figure it out. Does anyone have a suggestion for the best format?

 

Start slow. Keep 1 the first year, keep 2 the second year, and go on as far as you want. This prevents one lucky donkey drafting a bunch of Cam Newtons in the 10th and dominating. One great keeper doesn't make that big of a deal and it will keep people from souring on it right away.

 

Minimize tracking individual players. Either put a no-limit on how long they can be kept, or make it one year only. No commish wants to look back at the last 2,3,4 drafts to figure out when a guy's keeper window expires.

 

I strongly recommend you not allow early draft picks to be kept. This keeps studs cycling back into the pool every year.

 

Allow trading draft picks and don't allow keepers to be optional. This forces owner activity - if your keepers stink, you'll make a trade so you don't have to keep Cadillac Williams.

 

=====

 

My homer league handled keepers this way:

Keepers from prior year cost your first and second round picks.

Owners MUST keep one player drafted rounds 6-11 (4-9 first year).

Owners MUST keep one player drafted rounds 12-16 or FA pickup (10-16 or FA first year).

Players drafted rounds 1-5 (1-3 first year) may not be kept.

There is no trade deadline per se, but players traded after week 9 MAY NOT be kept. This prevents dumping studs for whatever you can get.

 

This ensures a guy is only kept once, the big names cycle back in every year, and even the new stud on the block like Newton is only kept once. There's enough reward for good drafting and roster management that you go into the next draft with a nice advantage, yet it's not so bad that someone with a bad year or luck is dead in the water from the get-go.

Edited by flemingd
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Yeah, I have plans to expand it as well. It's a deliciously evil idea. Since the demand to get in this league is relatively high, I was considering starting a second league (similar format to the EPL for soccer fans) where the two people in the 2nd league that make the championship game get PROMOTED to the top-level league. Bottom two teams in the top-level league get demoted. This would not only stop tanking but cause probably a more fierce battle to not be last than the people battling for playoff positioning at the end of the year. I smile just thinking about it.

 

 

Not sure if you are familiar with it, but the Huddle Ladder league is set up just like this, with I think 4 layers of leagues if memory serves. Not currently playing in it, but it is a fun idea, especially if you have a large number of dedicated owners.

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Not sure if you are familiar with it, but the Huddle Ladder league is set up just like this, with I think 4 layers of leagues if memory serves. Not currently playing in it, but it is a fun idea, especially if you have a large number of dedicated owners.

 

Wauw that sounds cool. Any way to join?

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Check the league forums for the Huddle Ladder and post your interest. If there are spots I'm sure they will accommodate.

 

 

I will do that. Thank you.

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We are allowed to keep up to three players (may keep zero). You lose a draft pick two rounds above their original draft position, which compounds each year. For instance, I drafted Foster in the 14th round two years ago. So last year, I forfeited a 12th round pick to keep him. This year, I will forfeit a 10th round. We only can keep a player for three years, so I will have to let him go after the 2013 season. You cannot keep any player drafted in the first or second round, for obvious reasons.

It keeps it interesting and also maintains a large pool of talent available for the first few rounds of the draft.

 

ETA: Any free agent counts as a tenth round pick. If you have multiple keepers countaing against the same round, you have to round up. However, you can choose the player to designate at the higher rounds.

Edited by jetsfan
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There are lots of great ideas here. The biggest factor will be the "Commish V. Simplicity" factor. A very motivated Commish with lots of time to donate to league tracking will be able to run more complex schemes. Simple will cause fewer changes in the future and less player turnover.

 

Not that I am contending ours was the best for everyone, but it evolved over the first few years where we did have a dominant couple teams, one of them mine. As a player I was great with our original set up, as the commish, I realized it had to be changed or we would start losing players (I went 47-1 over the first three years and was 2-1 in the championship games over those three years in a 12 team league).

 

I got bamboozled into the first league I played in, adopting a team in place with messed up keeper rules as well as IR and FA constraints, all designed to maintain the dominant as dominant (one of whom was the commish). I bailed after one year, realizing that it would take years to build a team while crapping money into the other guys pockets. This commish used to call me with rule changes to "inform me, because EVERYBODY had already voted to approve". He didn't think I would actually call the other players and found out he told them the same thing, LOL. Nothing was in writing either.

 

I think our system worked well as it was simple for me to track and I only won two championships in the next eight years. It was also easy to "sell" the league to new owners when we needed replacements.

 

A couple other things we did that worked well:

 

New players to the league received a supplemental pick at the end of the second round in place of their last round pick to balance out the fact that other teams had high level keepers not available to them.

 

NEVER allow trading of future year draft picks unless BOTH teams pay the fees for those years in advance. This way if one of those players leaves, you can offer a free team to a new player to "fix the mess" left behind. In our format, you could catch up in a year with good drafting and smart FA moves.

 

Have PUBLISHED written rules on EVERYTHING. We had two rule books. One on league operations, dues, IR/ FA, player movement, tie breakers, draft format, etc. and another donated specifically to scoring.

 

No rule changes during the year.

 

Have the league elect an assistant commish every year at the draft to monitor the trades and actions of the commish with FULL ACCESS to all the commish functions on the website hosting your league. There should be complete transparency or you should avoid playing in that league.

 

NEVER VETO A TRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hope this helps.

 

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One addition.

 

Everyone likes to think they have a chance at winning a championship every year. If your rules are set in a way that locks players into crappy teams through their stupidity or just bad luck, you will have much higher turnover, more problems to deal with and less fun.

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I got bamboozled into the first league I played in, adopting a team in place with messed up keeper rules as well as IR and FA constraints, all designed to maintain the dominant as dominant (one of whom was the commish). I bailed after one year, realizing that it would take years to build a team while crapping money into the other guys pockets. This commish used to call me with rule changes to "inform me, because EVERYBODY had already voted to approve". He didn't think I would actually call the other players and found out he told them the same thing, LOL. Nothing was in writing either.

 

 

What a nice little dictator he was. As somebody who's commished for going on 15 years, I'm disgusted by these self serving guys that are only in it to fleece their fellow owners.

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