21 replies to this topic

[SEC=UGA]

I thought the segment regarding the Texas game ranches was one of the more interesting segments they have done in a while.

I find it amazing that an animal (the scimitar antelope) who is basically extinct in it's native lands can be seen in the thousands on these Texas game ranches...  Never had a clue these ranches existed.

Anywho, the segment went something like this:
Game ranchers get big $$$$ from hunters who want to kill an endangered African species.  So they set aside thousands of acres in land and breed these animals.  Hunters cull the herds, get their trophy and the game rancher breeds more stock.

Animal rights lady is pissed off...  She would rather see these animals go extinct than to be raised and hunted in this manner.

She has currently won a court case with the Fed Gov which has now made it illegal to kill any of these scimitar antelope on these ranches w/o a federal license.  THe ranchers are saying, well, you know, we are in this for profit.  If I can't sell this gazelle, I'm not going to keep expending the resources on it and the antelope will eventually go bye-bye.

On a positive note, crazy animal rights lady has just released 170 of these animals on a refuge/preserve in Senegal.  So, as the 10,000+ on the game ranches in TX die off maybe these 170 can avoid being slaughtered by Africans, who are much less likely to exploit this newly found resource, and repopulate the species.

Edited by SEC=UGA, 11 June 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[SEC=UGA]

Link:
http://www.cbsnews.c...ectionContent.1

[matt770]

Pretty typical of the touchy-feely libs, all compassion, zero logic.  Increasingly our government is yielding to special interests regardless of whether the problems addressed are actually solved or made worse.

[SEC=UGA]

I was quite impressed, also, at how unbiased the report was.  I fully expected this to be a hatchet job by 60 minutes on these ranchers.  Rather, the way it unraveled it almost turned out to be just the opposite.

Edited by SEC=UGA, 11 June 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[detlef]

It's an interesting testimony to the random and yet powerful nature of the aversion to killing things.  I eat about every animal that is tasty and, yet, can't get with hunting and, as has been discussed in the chicken thread, am far from coming to grips with the notion of killing a chicken I raised.  Even though I eat the hell out of some chicken and, logically, humanely raising my own chickens for meat would be better for me and better for the chickens, I just can't do it...yet.  But, at least I don't wear this like a badge of honor.  I actually see it as quite a flaw and one that I hope I can eventually get past.  Because it makes no freaking sense.  I'll happily consume the dead flesh of some faceless animal and may, in the process, be eating poisons and supporting an awful and inhumane industry, but I can't kill my own meat, even if doing so means that I can be sure the animal at least had a nice life leading up to it and I know that I'm eating something clean?  It annoys the hell out of me that I have this hang-up.  (an aside, be sure to raise a creature from a baby, snap its neck, and then feed it to your family before you start to pile on here.  Easier said than done.)

But this is basically the same thing.  There is no logical basis for this woman's stance.  But the aversion to knowing that the primary reason these guys are raising these animals is so that rich dudes can have fun killing them just trumps all.  Only, instead of thinking, "I'm such a vinegar bag for hating on these guys for keeping a species on the planet because I find their reasons distasteful", she goes on TV and says we need to stop them.

[SEC=UGA]

detlef, on 11 June 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

It's an interesting testimony to the random and yet powerful nature of the aversion to killing things.  I eat about every animal that is tasty and, yet, can't get with hunting and, as has been discussed in the chicken thread, am far from coming to grips with the notion of killing a chicken I raised.  Even though I eat the hell out of some chicken and, logically, humanely raising my own chickens for meat would be better for me and better for the chickens, I just can't do it...yet.  But, at least I don't wear this like a badge of honor.  I actually see it as quite a flaw and one that I hope I can eventually get past.  Because it makes no freaking sense.  I'll happily consume the dead flesh of some faceless animal and may, in the process, be eating poisons and supporting an awful and inhumane industry, but I can't kill my own meat, even if doing so means that I can be sure the animal at least had a nice life leading up to it and I know that I'm eating something clean?  It annoys the hell out of me that I have this hang-up.  (an aside, be sure to raise a creature from a baby, snap its neck, and then feed it to your family before you start to pile on here.  Easier said than done.)

But this is basically the same thing.  There is no logical basis for this woman's stance.  But the aversion to knowing that the primary reason these guys are raising these animals is so that rich dudes can have fun killing them just trumps all.  Only, instead of thinking, "I'm such a vinegar bag for hating on these guys for keeping a species on the planet because I find their reasons distasteful", she goes on TV and says we need to stop them.

Det, you're not alone.  I would have to be near starvation to kill any animal I raised... Cow, sheep, chicken, pig, you name it, it would be tough.  Hell, I can't even come to the point of keeping and eating the fish I catch out of my lake.

[wiegie]

I very often ask the following as an exam question:

Cows are slow, tasty, and easy to kill.  Why aren't cows extinct?

[SEC=UGA]

wiegie, on 11 June 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

I very often ask the following as an exam question:

Cows are slow, tasty, and easy to kill.  Why aren't cows extinct?

Sounds like white wimmen.

Edited by SEC=UGA, 11 June 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[delusions of grandeur]

I agree with the sentiments in this thread, that this is something completely stupid and unwarranted to fight against...

That said, I worked for a year for a hunting/fishing show, and got to see the stark difference between the good country folks who live off the land, and this despicable practice of breeding animals to put them in a pen on a resort so some rich guys can reduce hunting to shopping and dick-swinging.... I watched for a couple hours as they went through to pick out the Elk they wanted to shoot, and then propped the gun up on the fence for the easy "trophy"... One of the guys also has the record for the biggest of some African species by taking part in the exact thing done here... Wow, what pride you must have to have the money to pick out the biggest trophy

Anyone who's actually hunted couldn't help but find it despicable, let alone how a greenhorn views it.

However, I know better than to let my emotional feelings about this trump the fact that this is not actually any less humane than hunting to thin out the numbers and help ensure the survival of the rest. I just refuse to paint it as if that's even a concern to them. I won't condemn or be an activist against it, but that doesn't mean I don't find it despicable the way they literally reduce it to killing, not hunting. It's insulting to those who live off the land the right way...

[Square]

wiegie, on 11 June 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

I very often ask the following as an exam question:

Cows are slow, tasty, and easy to kill.  Why aren't cows extinct?

Um, because bulls are around?

[Czarina]

delusions of grandeur, on 11 June 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I agree with the sentiments in this thread, that this is something completely stupid and unwarranted to fight against...

That said, I worked for a year for a hunting/fishing show, and got to see the stark difference between the good country folks who live off the land, and this despicable practice of breeding animals to put them in a pen on a resort so some rich guys can reduce hunting to shopping and dick-swinging.... I watched for a couple hours as they went through to pick out the Elk they wanted to shoot, and then propped the gun up on the fence for the easy "trophy"... One of the guys also has the record for the biggest of some African species by taking part in the exact thing done here... Wow, what pride you must have to have the money to pick out the biggest trophy

Anyone who's actually hunted couldn't help but find it despicable, let alone how a greenhorn views it.

However, I know better than to let my emotional feelings about this trump the fact that this is not actually any less humane than hunting to thin out the numbers and help ensure the survival of the rest. I just refuse to paint it as if that's even a concern to them. I won't condemn or be an activist against it, but that doesn't mean I don't find it despicable the way they literally reduce it to killing, not hunting. It's insulting to those who live off the land the right way...

That's not hunting...it's waiting. No sport there.

[Clubfoothead]

Dr. Pat Condy is a personal hero of mine.  It is my pleasure and honor to have spent abot 7 or 8 minutes of personal time with him over the years of taking my kids to Fossil Rim.  I highly recommend the drive if you are a DFW huddler

[delusions of grandeur]

Czarina, on 11 June 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

That's not hunting...it's waiting. No sport there.

Well, most kinds of hunting require much waiting and patience, but obviously there's much more to it than that...

I look at it more as not wanting to wait or have to rely on chance and your skills as a hunter, and instead reduce it to shopping... Basically all they did was scope them all with binoculars in a pen and try to figure out which scored the highest. In fact, there are actually places where you can pick out a picture of the deer you want (that have absurd spreads because they're basically pen-fed animals) before you even step foot on the property.

And all this so that they can brag to their buddies that they have these high-scoring and record-setting animals that they did no work outside of aiming to harvest... The whole thing was very sickening to me...

[SEC=UGA]

delusions of grandeur, on 11 June 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

Well, most kinds of hunting require much waiting and patience, but obviously there's much more to it than that...

I look at it more as not wanting to wait or have to rely on chance and your skills as a hunter, and instead reduce it to shopping... Basically all they did was scope them all with binoculars in a pen and try to figure out which scored the highest. In fact, there are actually places where you can pick out a picture of the deer you want (that have absurd spreads because they're basically pen-fed animals) before you even step foot on the property.

And all this so that they can brag to their buddies that they have these high-scoring and record-setting animals that they did no work outside of aiming to harvest... The whole thing was very sickening to me...

From the sounds of the 60 minutes report these farms that they were doing an expose on are not quite like what you are accustomed to.

In the first instance in finding the scimitar oryx the hunted for two days and didn't find one, it was an open 33,0000 acre ranch on which these animals are allowed free range.

In your instance, I agree.  However, is there really much of a difference between these farms and some people who set out feeders in a location and hunt that area only?

[bushwacked]

I liked the story on the 'South Park' musical.

[SEC=UGA]

bushwacked, on 11 June 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

I liked the story on the 'South Park' musical.

I want to go see it.  Though, it sounds like it is a tough ticket to come by and I'm not all that excited about having to go to Manhattan to see it.

Maybe they'll do a road trip to the Fox in the next couple years.

[delusions of grandeur]

SEC=UGA, on 11 June 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

In your instance, I agree.  However, is there really much of a difference between these farms and some people who set out feeders in a location and hunt that area only?

Yes, that is a bit different. This was a 2,000 acre pen, so I do not have any sort of the same issue with actually hunting for them, not shopping. (Also, this was out of a truck here, jsut to make it even lazier).

We are actually now allowed to hunt over feed in GA, I assume because of the overpopulation of deer and a declining number of hunters to keep them in check... So while I don't have a huge issue with those who do so, I refuse to do the same on my family's farm, where we only hunt by patterning, positioning and other more legitimate means.

However, particularly in many places in Texas, you only have 2 choices due to the vast amount of land to cover. Bait them or go ride around to spot them, neither of which might be considered the most fulfilling sorts of hunting, but it can be necessary both there and now in GA to keep their numbers in check.

This is also why I believe you can hog hunt over feed pretty much anywhere, because it's better than leaving to chance and having them be the big-time nuisances they are.

Edited by delusions of grandeur, 11 June 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[wiegie]

During deer season in Michigan, you can buy large bags of carrots, corn, etc. at the local gas stations.

[matt770]

wiegie, on 11 June 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

During deer season in Michigan, you can buy large bags of carrots, corn, etc. at the local gas stations.

My jackass neighbor in MD used to put piles of deer corn in the woods out back and take deer with his bow from his back porch.  This was a high-density townhouse community and kids played in those woods.  He also shot a cat once.

I'm all for hunter's rights, but shooting animals has never appealed to me.

[delusions of grandeur]

matt770, on 11 June 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I'm all for hunter's rights, but shooting animals has never appealed to me.

If you saw how your meat you buy from the store is made, no meat would appeal to you then... To me it's the difference between murdering someone who's had a free life and holding a bunch of folks prisoner in a crowded concentration camp until you're ready to off them.

You have to disassociate the murder part from the fact that you have to eat, and unless you're into living a vegan lifestyle, you either kill for your meat or naively let someone else pump them full of hormones and kill in masses so you can forget about it.

Hell, I can't stand having to actually shoot deer, but for one thing, we've eliminated their natural predators to allow them to overpopulate, and again, you gotta eat...

Edited by delusions of grandeur, 11 June 2012 - 04:34 PM.

[Square]

Czarina, on 11 June 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

That's not hunting...it's waiting. No sport there.

I think "waiting" sounds like most if not all hunting.  

[Rebellab]

wiegie, on 11 June 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

I very often ask the following as an exam question:

Cows are slow, tasty, and easy to kill.  Why aren't cows extinct?

The answer to your question Professor is MONEY.