Ditkaless Wonders Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 So when NFL teams try leverage a player with a rookie contract or franchise tag it's just business, but if a player tries to use his leverage back he's not a team player? Rubbish. If it's a business to one, then it is a business to both. They both have a lot to lose and are playing hardball but I think a deal will get done. It's funny how Brees is painted as both a players union stooge and as a selfish non-team player in the same thread. I never stated nor intimated that teams should be held to one standard and players another. What I stated is that threatening to hold outuntil one gets a crippling percentage of the salary cap so that one can feel respected is not being a team player, IMO. That Brees is so often tauted as a team guy, since he holds himself out as one, and since he has seen fit to call attention to others he feels are not, then he is open to righteous criticism as a hypocrite. It is not that he uses leverage, it is that he does so while trying to pretend that he is not which drew my comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I never stated nor intimated that teams should be held to one standard and players another. What I stated is that threatening to hold outuntil one gets a crippling percentage of the salary cap so that one can feel respected is not being a team player, IMO. That Brees is so often tauted as a team guy, since he holds himself out as one, and since he has seen fit to call attention to others he feels are not, then he is open to righteous criticism as a hypocrite. It is not that he uses leverage, it is that he does so while trying to pretend that he is not which drew my comment. I'll just say one thing & leave it at that. Brees has done far more to prove that he is a team player than the vast majority of the folks in the league and no amount of public posturing from either side or media speculation could sway me from that opinion. I personally think that he has earned whatever it is he able to get, whether it's what has been reported or something else. I also think that the Saints have every right to try their best to protect their salary cap. Not to be confrontational, but to call him a hypocrite in my mind is just ignorant and smacks of hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Dobler Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I never stated nor intimated that teams should be held to one standard and players another. What I stated is that threatening to hold outuntil one gets a crippling percentage of the salary cap so that one can feel respected is not being a team player, IMO. That Brees is so often tauted as a team guy, since he holds himself out as one, and since he has seen fit to call attention to others he feels are not, then he is open to righteous criticism as a hypocrite. It is not that he uses leverage, it is that he does so while trying to pretend that he is not which drew my comment. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'll just say one thing & leave it at that. Brees has done far more to prove that he is a team player than the vast majority of the folks in the league and no amount of public posturing from either side or media speculation could sway me from that opinion. I personally think that he has earned whatever it is he able to get, whether it's what has been reported or something else. I also think that the Saints have every right to try their best to protect their salary cap. Not to be confrontational, but to call him a hypocrite in my mind is just ignorant and smacks of hate. I don't know. These guys convince themselves that, if they don't go for the gold, they're letting their fellow players down by not pushing the envelope for the next guy. And that's convenient logic. After all, in the short term, they're literally taking money away from other players. This, quite obviously, is because there's a cap, so every penny they spend on Brees is a penny they can't spend on someone else. And, since there's also a floor, it is, in fact, a penny the owners have to spend on another player as opposed to just pocket. Now, I get that, as salaries, in general, escalate, so does the pressure to increase the cap overall. Well, getting that to happen assumes one of two things: 1) That there's more room to move into the owner's share, which may or may not be true any longer or 2) That they can squeeze us for more money, which is becoming increasingly less likely. So, in the name of allegedly looking out for people besides himself, he's taking money from either his fellow players or the fans, but not the owners until at least when the current CBA runs out if ever. Team player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I'll just say one thing & leave it at that. Brees has done far more to prove that he is a team player than the vast majority of the folks in the league and no amount of public posturing from either side or media speculation could sway me from that opinion. I personally think that he has earned whatever it is he able to get, whether it's what has been reported or something else. I also think that the Saints have every right to try their best to protect their salary cap. Not to be confrontational, but to call him a hypocrite in my mind is just ignorant and smacks of hate. Only if I maintained that hypocricy was the central and essential element of the man. Noticing a chink in the armour is not an argument that the armour is worthless. The sum of a man is all his parts, strengths and flaws. In the end I think this gets done. The Saints will get a top tier guy still in his prime, and life will go on. Brees will likely have, absent injury, statistically great years. With his extraordinary accuracy he will rack up personal achievements. Also in the end, I believe that he is going to cripple his team's salary cap. They will not be able to afford the players they need to win. The team will have to come to him hat in hand begging him to reneogotiate his contract so that they can pay someone else. This will make him a defacto GM of the team. That is not a good scenario. I think teams need extraordinary Q.B.'s to win in today's game, but they need them to not yet be on their" reward contract". They need them on the way up, while they are still affordable. Edited July 12, 2012 by Ditkaless Wonders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Brees' actions speak for themselves and Brees has defined himself through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White lightning Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Brees' actions speak for themselves and Brees has defined himself through them. I totally agree. Brees played for SD in 2005 under the franchise tag because they refused to give a long-term deal. During that season Brees suffered a potentially career ending injury, SD refused to offer him a contract, and they handed his job to Phillip Rivers. Brees found himself injured, abandoned by his team, and forced to sign with the then lowly 3-13 Saints for 6 years $60M. In response, Brees led the Saints to a 10-6 record in 2006, an overall record of 52-33 over the next six years, and the franchise’s first Super Bowl win. Brees played his entire undervalued 6 yr contract and never once requested that the Saints renegotiate or threatened to hold out. Most recently, Brees organized and helped pay for the Saints off season workouts during the holdout (not to mention all the efforts he’s made in the community). Am I nominating Brees for beatification? No. I just don’t think he should be vilified for negotiating his contract with due diligence, especially considering his contract history and contribution to the Saints. The latest report from ESPN has the parameters of the deal at 5 years for 20.5M (Brees) to 19.25M (NO). The major sticking point seems to be the guaranteed money. I believe the deal will get done before the July 16th deadline. Edited July 12, 2012 by White lightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White lightning Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Also in the end, I believe that he is going to cripple his team's salary cap. They will not be able to afford the players they need to win. The team will have to come to him hat in hand begging him to reneogotiate his contract so that they can pay someone else. This will make him a defacto GM of the team. That is not a good scenario.. I don't think his contract will cripple the teams salary cap. They are talking about a 5 yr contract for around 100M with any where from 50-60M guaranteed. If you consider the salary cap is currently 120M and is expected to increase significantly in 2014 due to the new TV deal, I think the Saints will be no worse off then the Patriots (Brady 19M), Broncos (Manning 19M) and Green Bay (Rogers who is sure to command 19-20M). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Mort is reporting Brees has agreed to sign, 5-years $100 million w/ $60 million guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhusted Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Mort is reporting Brees has agreed to sign, 5-years $100 million w/ $60 million guaranteed. Just heard this on SiriusXM NFL Radio too... Lock him up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I totally agree. Brees played for SD in 2005 under the franchise tag because they refused to give a long-term deal. During that season Brees suffered a potentially career ending injury, SD refused to offer him a contract, and they handed his job to Phillip Rivers. Brees found himself injured, abandoned by his team, and forced to sign with the then lowly 3-13 Saints for 6 years $60M. In response, Brees led the Saints to a 10-6 record in 2006, an overall record of 52-33 over the next six years, and the franchise’s first Super Bowl win. Brees played his entire undervalued 6 yr contract and never once requested that the Saints renegotiate or threatened to hold out. Most recently, Brees organized and helped pay for the Saints off season workouts during the holdout (not to mention all the efforts he’s made in the community). Am I nominating Brees for beatification? No. I just don’t think he should be vilified for negotiating his contract with due diligence, especially considering his contract history and contribution to the Saints. The latest report from ESPN has the parameters of the deal at 5 years for 20.5M (Brees) to 19.25M (NO). The major sticking point seems to be the guaranteed money. I believe the deal will get done before the July 16th deadline. All I can say in response to this post is that there will soon be a pigeon strutting around and crapping all over a chess board. You straight up won this argument with this post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Brees' actions speak for themselves and Brees has defined himself through them. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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