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Message Board League 8 Team Thread


DMD
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You bet I do. I think Gronk and Graham have an excellent chance of coming back down to earth this season. I think Gates has just as good a chance of getting over 1,000 yards as those guys. Rivers will throw 30 TDs this season and Gates might catch half of them.

 

 

That is absurd lol. Gates has had TWO 1000 yards seasons in his career and has caught double digit TDs once in the last six years. He is also entering his 11th season at age 32. Both Graham and Gronk are young and coming off better years than Gates has ever had in his entire career.

 

Graham @ 99-1300-11 had more receptions and yards than Gates ever had in any season of his career ever.

 

Gronkowski @ 90-1300-17 had more receptions, yards, and TD's in one year than Gates has ever had in any single season for each of those categories.

 

I know Gates is a talented dude but come on man. Gronk and Graham are on a completely different level of opportunity, situation, and talent than Gates.

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That is absurd lol. Gates has had TWO 1000 yards seasons in his career and has caught double digit TDs once in the last six years. He is also entering his 11th season at age 32. Both Graham and Gronk are young and coming off better years than Gates has ever had in his entire career.

 

Graham @ 99-1300-11 had more receptions and yards than Gates ever had in any season of his career ever.

 

Gronkowski @ 90-1300-17 had more receptions, yards, and TD's in one year than Gates has ever had in any single season for each of those categories.

 

I know Gates is a talented dude but come on man. Gronk and Graham are on a completely different level of opportunity, situation, and talent than Gates.

 

Certainly not talent. Opportunity and situation, perhaps. But I think those two come back to the field this year.

 

It's not like when Gates busted out because he was the only crazy athletic TE and everyone else was using guys who were just a bit faster than OTs. Now, there's a ton of guys, former B-ball players and such, being turned into TEs.

 

The thing is, NE and NO figured out how to take it to the next level with them. And I see one of two things happening:

 

1) Other OCs studied tape and looked at how they exploited the match-up, and will look to do the same.

2) All the DCs studied tape and looked at how they could stop letting the TE position cause such damage. And, keep in mind, that many people think the crazy passing numbers last year were because it's harder to coach defense than offense and, thus, the Ds were hampered more by the lock-out than the Os. So this could have been an example of that.

 

So, I think there's a very good chance they come back to the field, either because they don't put up eye-popping numbers again, or that guys like Gates, Davis, Finley, and others, who are also great athletes start being used in a manner that takes advantage of the same things NE and NO were taking advantage of. Mind you, in Gates case, it also has a lot to do with him finally being healthy.

 

Hell, Gronk has another guy on his own team who put up mad numbers when he wasn't hurt and now they've added a WR who should be a vast upgrade over anyone they've had since Moss went sideways.

Edited by detlef
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Certainly not talent. Opportunity and situation, perhaps. But I think those two come back to the field this year.

 

It's not like when Gates busted out because he was the only crazy athletic TE and everyone else was using guys who were just a bit faster than OTs. Now, there's a ton of guys, former B-ball players and such, being turned into TEs.

 

The thing is, NE and NO figured out how to take it to the next level with them. And I see one of two things happening:

 

1) Other OCs studied tape and looked at how they exploited the match-up, and will look to do the same.

2) All the DCs studied tape and looked at how they could stop letting the TE position cause such damage. And, keep in mind, that many people think the crazy passing numbers last year were because it's harder to coach defense than offense and, thus, the Ds were hampered more by the lock-out than the Os. So this could have been an example of that.

 

So, I think there's a very good chance they come back to the field, either because they don't put up eye-popping numbers again, or that guys like Gates, Davis, Finley, and others, who are also great athletes start being used in a manner that takes advantage of the same things NE and NO were taking advantage of. Mind you, in Gates case, it also has a lot to do with him finally being healthy.

 

Hell, Gronk has another guy on his own team who put up mad numbers when he wasn't hurt and now they've added a WR who should be a vast upgrade over anyone they've had since Moss went sideways.

 

 

Fair enough but to say Gates is in Tier 1 along with Graham and Gronk, THEN there is a drop-off is inaccurate...their ADP makes it pretty obvious that the dropoff of tier 1 is just after Graham and Gronk:

 

16th overall - Graham

17th overall - Gronkowski

51st overall - Hernandez

56th overall - Gates

59th overall - Davis

62nd overall - Finley

 

Really I don't see how ADP doesn't set the tiers right there, the difference between Graham/Gronk and Gates is 40 picks. That is MFL ADP just btw.

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Fair enough but to say Gates is in Tier 1 along with Graham and Gronk, THEN there is a drop-off is inaccurate...their ADP makes it pretty obvious that the dropoff of tier 1 is just after Graham and Gronk:

 

16th overall - Graham

17th overall - Gronkowski

51st overall - Hernandez

56th overall - Gates

59th overall - Davis

62nd overall - Finley

 

Really I don't see how ADP doesn't set the tiers right there, the difference between Graham/Gronk and Gates is 40 picks. That is MFL ADP just btw.

 

I'll give you that much, but, for all the reasons I've given above, I still think that Graham and Gronk are being taken too high, particularly Gronk.
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Certainly not talent. Opportunity and situation, perhaps. But I think those two come back to the field this year.

 

It's not like when Gates busted out because he was the only crazy athletic TE and everyone else was using guys who were just a bit faster than OTs. Now, there's a ton of guys, former B-ball players and such, being turned into TEs.

 

The thing is, NE and NO figured out how to take it to the next level with them. And I see one of two things happening:

 

1) Other OCs studied tape and looked at how they exploited the match-up, and will look to do the same.

2) All the DCs studied tape and looked at how they could stop letting the TE position cause such damage. And, keep in mind, that many people think the crazy passing numbers last year were because it's harder to coach defense than offense and, thus, the Ds were hampered more by the lock-out than the Os. So this could have been an example of that.

 

So, I think there's a very good chance they come back to the field, either because they don't put up eye-popping numbers again, or that guys like Gates, Davis, Finley, and others, who are also great athletes start being used in a manner that takes advantage of the same things NE and NO were taking advantage of. Mind you, in Gates case, it also has a lot to do with him finally being healthy.

 

Hell, Gronk has another guy on his own team who put up mad numbers when he wasn't hurt and now they've added a WR who should be a vast upgrade over anyone they've had since Moss went sideways.

 

This sums up my thoughts pretty well. If Gronk/Graham are tier 1, then gates stands alone in tier 1B, imo. Gates has been the most consistent TE over the past 10 years next to Gonzo and is still relatively young by TE/WR standards. Gates is finally healthy after 2 years of being injured. Would I rather have Gronk or Graham? Absolutely but seeing as I got Gates 3 rounds later, I feel like I got the better deal on TE because I foresee Gates having very similar numbers to the above TEs. Maybe not quite as good but damn close.

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Fair enough but to say Gates is in Tier 1 along with Graham and Gronk, THEN there is a drop-off is inaccurate...their ADP makes it pretty obvious that the dropoff of tier 1 is just after Graham and Gronk:

 

16th overall - Graham

17th overall - Gronkowski

51st overall - Hernandez

56th overall - Gates

59th overall - Davis

62nd overall - Finley

 

Really I don't see how ADP doesn't set the tiers right there, the difference between Graham/Gronk and Gates is 40 picks. That is MFL ADP just btw.

 

I see your point but read my most recent post. Also keep in mind that ADP is not gospel. ADP is the consensus of the FF masses which means it will be wrong more often than right.

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I see your point but read my most recent post. Also keep in mind that ADP is not gospel. ADP is the consensus of the FF masses which means it will be wrong more often than right.

 

 

I think guessing Rivers will throw 30 TD's and Gates will get 50% is mindless speculation IMO. 27 last year, I've read from some California sports bloggers that Rievrs doesn't have the same velocity/zip on his balls and is looking, well, on the decline. He threw a ridiculous 582 times last year, a career high, and I don't see him hitting that # again.

 

I think they will also run a lot with Mathews this year and really shift their focus to him. Without VJax as well, if Gates gets hot teams will just double team him as Meachem isn't much of a threat since Rivers hasn't shown he can throw a good deep ball yet this season.

 

:shrug: I don't know, I guess I just feel that Gates @ 31 was way too early while there were top-15 WRs on the board and a few top-20 RBs still there.

 

To each his own.

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I see your point but read my most recent post. Also keep in mind that ADP is not gospel. ADP is the consensus of the FF masses which means it will be wrong more often than right.

 

Actually, it sort of means that it will be wrong about as often as it's right.

This sums up my thoughts pretty well. If Gronk/Graham are tier 1, then gates stands alone in tier 1B, imo. Gates has been the most consistent TE over the past 10 years next to Gonzo and is still relatively young by TE/WR standards. Gates is finally healthy after 2 years of being injured. Would I rather have Gronk or Graham? Absolutely but seeing as I got Gates 3 rounds later, I feel like I got the better deal on TE because I foresee Gates having very similar numbers to the above TEs. Maybe not quite as good but damn close.

 

I'm actually high on Gates but don't think he stands alone above the next batch. In fact, I'm a bit surprised at the lack of love V Davis is getting.

 

New coach, no camp, and a great D meant the Niners were going to play it close to the vest last year, and it worked, to a degree. They were good for the first time in years. But they know it's not enough and showed it in the play-offs when they opened up the playbook, knowing full-well they weren't going to keep Brees to a low enough pt total to win it on the back of David Akers.

 

And Davis when freaking mad. The Giants exposed their O-line the next week and I also think they figured they could win that game playing the sort of ball they played most of the year. Regardless, Davis went off again.

 

A Smith is a smart kid and I bet he can operate a far more dynamic offense than he did last year. Which means, there's going to be enough yards and TDs to go around to make at least two targets FF relevant. And given how he ended last year, Davis seems like a lock to be one of them.

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I think guessing Rivers will throw 30 TD's and Gates will get 50% is mindless speculation IMO. 27 last year, I've read from some California sports bloggers that Rievrs doesn't have the same velocity/zip on his balls and is looking, well, on the decline. He threw a ridiculous 582 times last year, a career high, and I don't see him hitting that # again.

 

I think they will also run a lot with Mathews this year and really shift their focus to him. Without VJax as well, if Gates gets hot teams will just double team him as Meachem isn't much of a threat since Rivers hasn't shown he can throw a good deep ball yet this season.

 

:shrug: I don't know, I guess I just feel that Gates @ 31 was way too early while there were top-15 WRs on the board and a few top-20 RBs still there.

 

To each his own.

 

Of the 2 WRs who went right afterwards (Nicks and Harvin), I was only targeting Nicks but also had him rated near Jennings (who I snagged next) - it was a calculated risk that I would land one of those two since I was right after the turn. Also, imo at the time, the dropoff in TE was much greater than the dropoff in WR. Again, I'll give you Gronk/Graham tier 1 but IMO Gates stands alone in tier 1B then the dropoff happens. There are other guys with upside but Gates was the only sure thing left at TE while WRs had a few options left of which I got one. At the end of the day, you should be happy with my choice since it only "helps" you if you think you're right. The great thing about it is we'll know in December after I win the league.
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Actually, it sort of means that it will be wrong about as often as it's right.

I'm actually high on Gates but don't think he stands alone above the next batch. In fact, I'm a bit surprised at the lack of love V Davis is getting.

 

New coach, no camp, and a great D meant the Niners were going to play it close to the vest last year, and it worked, to a degree. They were good for the first time in years. But they know it's not enough and showed it in the play-offs when they opened up the playbook, knowing full-well they weren't going to keep Brees to a low enough pt total to win it on the back of David Akers.

 

And Davis when freaking mad. The Giants exposed their O-line the next week and I also think they figured they could win that game playing the sort of ball they played most of the year. Regardless, Davis went off again.

 

A Smith is a smart kid and I bet he can operate a far more dynamic offense than he did last year. Which means, there's going to be enough yards and TDs to go around to make at least two targets FF relevant. And given how he ended last year, Davis seems like a lock to be one of them.

 

I like Davis, love his ability but so far he's been super inconsistent. You may be right about him this year but to me he carried more risk than Gates. He's certainly younger and with youth comes more athleticism but Gates is the TE who essentially started the whole TE trend in recent years. Gates still has some years left as an elite TE. I trust him more than any other TE not named Gronk or Graham.

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Man, odd place to have your queue purged like mine just did. In the 12th round and had 8 picks in front of me. The top 4 guys I had queued up went in the first 5 of those 8 picks. Gonzo, Greshem, Olsen, and RG III

 

And, Zesty, if you're around, what's up? You had to notice that every pick between your two picks were set to auto-draft, so you'd be up in literally 5 seconds after your first one. Why's it gotta stall on you again?

Edited by detlef
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It is starting to affect my draft strategy so I vote for keeping it the same. Got plenty more drafts coming...

 

I hear ya, me too but if it's free does it really matter? I'm with you on draft strategy which is why I'm hoping we get a final answer soon. But if it's no cost to us participants then whatever is decided is essentially fine. I'd like the draft to continue on just for fun if anything.

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To me short rosters is kinda cool because you have to make strategic choices leaving good RB/WR on the board so you can fill out bye week backups at QB/TE/K/Def Otherwise, its just like any other draft pick lots of bench RB/WR then grab Def/Ks with your last picks.

Edited by Company of Heroes
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To me short rosters is kinda cool because you have to make strategic choices leaving good RB/WR on the board so you can fill out bye week backups at QB/TE/K/Def Otherwise, its just like any other draft pick lots of bench RB/WR then grab Def/Ks with your last picks.

 

We don't even have to extend to 24, just another 2 rounds would be helpful. Keep in mind we have no FAs, WWs or trades. Once we draft that's it. With 18 there are not enough players to cover for injuries. With an 8 team league, we have the added benefit of plenty of players to choose from if we extend out.

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Covering for injuries are part of your draft strategy. Changing the rules when we're almost done isn't going to happen. The train has left the station.

 

I assume everyone is drafting to cover for injuries. Having smaller rosters, imo, potentially allows more luck to be a factor. At the end of the day, we're all playing by the same rules so it's all fair. But if a few teams have more injuries than others, those teams have little chance to be competitive because of the limited rosters. If we had larger rosters, we would be less affected by injuries.

 

Just my $0.02. Again, I really just want to keep drafting because it's fun and nearly complete :(

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I'm going to guess, having set up one of these leagues, that it's no small matter, going in after a draft has begun and adding to the rosters.

 

Well, that and I agree that, once we're going, we're going and should just stick with the roster sizes. I would have been fine either way and, frankly, still would be, but I can totally understand why someone wouldn't.

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Man, odd place to have your queue purged like mine just did. In the 12th round and had 8 picks in front of me. The top 4 guys I had queued up went in the first 5 of those 8 picks. Gonzo, Greshem, Olsen, and RG III

 

And, Zesty, if you're around, what's up? You had to notice that every pick between your two picks were set to auto-draft, so you'd be up in literally 5 seconds after your first one. Why's it gotta stall on you again?

 

 

Coffee was the priority...

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Man, odd place to have your queue purged like mine just did. In the 12th round and had 8 picks in front of me. The top 4 guys I had queued up went in the first 5 of those 8 picks. Gonzo, Greshem, Olsen, and RG III

 

And, Zesty, if you're around, what's up? You had to notice that every pick between your two picks were set to auto-draft, so you'd be up in literally 5 seconds after your first one. Why's it gotta stall on you again?

 

 

Definitely different doing an 8 person. With the short rosters, I guessed a run on backup TE/QBs was coming.

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