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Ben to Brown, Brown fumbles, then recovers in EZ


HowboutthemCowboys
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sorry if this has been posted, I did'nt see it.

 

Ben passed to Brown who fumbled before getting the EZ, then recovered in the EZ for a TD. Yahoo is showing 4 td passes for Ben (counting this play as a TD pass).

 

anyone know the rule? Keg? BJ?

 

I for one am hoping this gets changed later in the week, taking a td pass from Ben :thinking:

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Interesting...you are right that should not have been a TD pass...also shows up as such on my FFPC scoring through RTSports. It shows as an 11 yard TD pass - also shows up as an 11 yard TD reception for Brown which it of course was not...he did score but not as a result of catching that pass....unless I missed something and they said he crossed the goal line prior to fumbling...I don't think that was the ruling.

 

Has to get adjusted I would imagine.

 

KO'd

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In years past, this has been ruled a fumble recovery TD. Kevin Curtis PHI WR (I think) fumbled into the end zone and recovered it himself.

 

 

CBS and MFL also scoring it as 4 TDs for Roethlisberger. I am guessing that, had it been any other player that recovered the fumble, it would not have been a Roethlisberger TD. However, because it was the player who originally caught it that scored, and possession never changed from anyone to anyone else, it is essentially a continuation of the original play.

 

Think of it this way: suppose Brown was running free and clear towards the endzone, all by himself. All the sudden, he drops the ball, but it bounces straight back up to him, and he continues toward the endzone and scores. This would not be scored a reception, then a fumble recovery....just a reception for the entire play. It would only change to a recovery if someone else recovered it.

 

I think the same logic applies here.

Edited by i_am_the_swammi
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CBS and MFL also scoring it as 4 TDs for Roethlisberger. I am guessing that, had it been any other player that recovered the fumble, it would not have been a Roethlisberger TD. However, because it was the player who originally caught it that scored, and possession never changed from anyone to anyone else, it is essentially a continuation of the original play.

 

 

This is my guess as well. All other examples I can think of where it is scored an offensive fumble recovery TD were the result of a different player recovering the football.

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What swammi said bout him recovering his own fumble makes sense. But they still show fumlbe stats for that (fumbled, fumble recovered). I can see where a player recovering his own fumble might be considered a continuation of the same play.

 

BJ gave a rather short response saying it should be fumble recovery TD. I guess he's saying doesn't matter who recovers. Oh and you nee dto have the fumble recovery TD as an offensive stat category to get this.

 

The full play by play account from NFL.com - looks like 10 yards passing/receiving, and a fumble recovery TD (in the end zone 0 yards)

2-11-OAK 11 (1:32) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 84-A.Brown to OAK 1 for 10 yards (52-P.Wheeler). FUMBLES (52-P.Wheeler), and recovers at OAK 0. TOUCHDOWN. PENALTY on OAK-93-T.Kelly, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced between downs. The Replay Assistant challenged the loose ball recovery ruling, and the play was Upheld.

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I found this while hunting around:

 

 

IF A QUARTERBACK PASSES THE BALL, THE RECEIVER CATCHES IT AND THEN LATERALS TO ANOTHER PLAYER WHO SCORES, HOW IS THE PLAY SCORED?

 

Examples of this are the Culpepper-to-Moss-to-Williams hook-and-ladder and the Saints 3-lateral play to end a game against the Jaguars late in the season. In all cases, if a quarterback passes the ball and the receiver laterals it, the quarterback gets credit for the completed pass and the total yardage as passing yardage until the play is stopped. The player receiving the pass from the quarterback receives credit for a reception and all yardage from the line of scrimmage to where the lateral occurred. Any player receiving a lateral receives credit for receiving yards from the point where the lateral occurred until their possession stops through another lateral, being tackled or fumbling. The player receiving the lateral does not receive credit for a reception. (Yes, it is possible that a player could gain receiving yards with no reception. It's happened where the box score shows 0 receptions for 17 yards.) If the result of a passing play involving laterals is a touchdown, the quarterback receives credit for a TD pass for the entire length of the play, regardless of the length of the actual pass or the number of times a lateral is executed on the play. The rules are the same regarding a lateral on a running play. The first player rushing the ball receives credit for the rush. The player receiving the lateral receives credit for the rushing yards, but not the carry.

 

 

The logic behind the bolded part seems to make me think the Roethlisberger/Brown play will stand, for much the same reason: it was a continuation of the original play, which was a pass.

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Hmmm...now I am second-guessing myself :weird: I also found this, which seems more on the mark:

 

 

IS AN OFFENSIVE FUMBLE RECOVERY FOR A TD A RUSHING TD, A DEFENSIVE TD OR A RECEIVING TD?

 

This happened a few times in 2003 - most notably with Alan Ricard of the Ravens, Koren Robinson of the Seahawks and Randy McMichael of the Dolphins. A fumble recovery for a TD is just that - a fumble recovery for a TD. Unless your rules specify credit for a fumble recovery for a TD by an offensive player, or have a catchall definition (preferred) of all TDs, you cannot give credit for the fumble recovery for a TD. It is a misnomer to call it a defensive TD because the defensive squad never gained possession of the ball. You cannot call it a rushing or receiving TD, because that would imply a controlled lateral which this clearly is not. Some scoring rules specify that all fumble recoveries for a TD are credited to the defensive team. As long as that is how your rules are stated, and hopefully everyone understands the risk, then giving the defense credit is an acceptable thing to do. The best way to eliminate issues relate to categorization is to change your rules to simply state ANY and ALL TDs.

 

 

Based on what is written here, it doesn't matter who recovers it....and it takes away not only the passing TD, but also the receiving TD. In their opinion, it also takes away Brown's TD totally, unless your league's rules specifically state players get credit for offensive fumble recoveries.

 

In some leagues, both Roethlisberger's AND Browns TDs may be wiped out, pending how the rule is interpreted and applied.

Edited by i_am_the_swammi
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I started Vick over Ben this week, so, it doesn't matter to me. :bash:

 

I also started Witten over Fred Davis :bash::bash:

 

I still won :yay:

 

But, points play a big part in our league and playoffs, so, I still needed the points. :bash:

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