honolulublueandsilver Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 3 teams are tied at 8-4 for the 2 wildcard spots. 1st tie breaker is H2H, 2nd is total points scored. Team A - 1st in points, lost to team C H2H, didnt play team B Team B - 2nd in points, didnt play team A, or C Team C - 3rd in points, won against team A, didnt play team B what 2 teams get into the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) For starters, there's no way you should have H2H as your first tie break in a league where you don't play everyone at least once. And how is this? How many teams are in the league? And, honestly, I think you have to retro-actively scrap the current system and go to total pts. After all, team B didn't play either. If they get in ahead of anyone or get left out because of the fact that they didn't play either of the other teams, that's far worse than scrapping the current #1 tie break. If, however, you insist upon using the current system. Team C gets the first spot for having the best H2H. Then you compare A and B, who "tied" their H2H by virtue of not playing one another and then A gets the not by virtue of having the highest point total. Edited November 27, 2012 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Another illustration of why H2H is a horrible tiebreaker. Also, with no definition in place defining if H2H needs to be a clean sweep or not, and especially since the teams involved did not all play each other, I think it can be ruled out as having any impact on this group tiebreaker, thus you move on to the 2nd tiebreak which is total points scored, and Teams A and B get into the playoffs. That said, again due to the horrible nature of H2H as a tiebreaker, you will see arguments saying that the H2H rankings have Team C at a 1.000 win pct, and Team A and B at a .000 win pct (even though Team B did not play any of the teams involved in the tie), thus Team C gets in, and then you fall back to splitting the tie between Team A and B and have Team A get in via points. I think this is an incorrect application of the tiebreakers as without all teams playing each other, you can't truly apply the H2H tiebreaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) We do it very much like the NFL for wild cards, first thing to do is pick the best team in each division using the division ranking tie breakers. Then compare the best team from each division against the others, and use non-division tie breakers. (For example we use division record to break tie within the division by overall record, and then total points. But when comparing teams from different divisions we leave out division record.) Once you select a wild card team, start over again with the best team in each division. Haven't read the other posts yet, but we used to use H2H and eliminated it at one time because we felt division record worked fine within the division(where H2H was always 2 games), and outside the division the H2H didn't make as much sense since multiple teams could end up with a scenario like yours. You're basically trying to decide how several different teams possibly from different divisions that may have never played each are should be ranked. At that point total points seems to be a good and fair measure. ETA: Completely agree with detlef and Big Country Edited November 27, 2012 by stevegrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 BTW, this is a perfect example of how a mid-season rule change can be fair, even if it adversely effects one team over another. The primary litmus test for whether or not you should change a rule mid-season is whether or not anyone would have done anything differently had the rule been different. This is not such a case. You have to assume that all 3 teams involved would have done everything exactly the same. And the team who gets the short end needs to be an adult about it realize that they're simply being deprived of something they don't really deserve to begin with. Needless to say, this only applies to any reasonable rule change proposed because you realize the current system is particularly flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XFlash Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Agree that H2H the teams should at least play each other at least once. Agree that H2H needs to be scraped and go with total points. That is your best solution. You will need to add several tie breakers in your rules next season to help avoid a roadblock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Total points. End of thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Total points. End of thread. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinalTapp Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yup. We just switched to total points. Best decision ever. Simplifies everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachBum Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 3 teams are tied at 8-4 for the 2 wildcard spots. 1st tie breaker is H2H, 2nd is total points scored. Team A - 1st in points, lost to team C H2H, didnt play team B Team B - 2nd in points, didnt play team A, or C Team C - 3rd in points, won against team A, didnt play team B what 2 teams get into the playoffs? We're still waiting for the "How many teams in this league", and why in a HTH league did teams not play each other at all? Must be at least 16 team league? Next year play some double-headers so everybody plays everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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