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Gore fumble recovery TD


stevegrab
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Anybody else have this affect their game? The owner in our league with Gore lost his game by 6 points, neither team has players in MNF.

 

He's asking why there is no score, we're explaining that offensive fumble recovery TDs are not scored in our league, and never have been. This isn't uncommon and has already happened twice this year. (Sadly we didn't bring it up to the league to reinforce it because both times it did not affect a game result.)

 

 

He doesn't seem to care, and is basically saying "well I thought any time my player scored a TD I got 6 points, why don't I on this time? I'd say that the rules are set up wrong because I didn't know that some TDs don't count."

 

We've pointed out that it has happened in the past, but probably never to this degree (deciding a playoff game). And we're pretty sure that we've covered it before.

 

He's not happy, and is saying that now he is protesting, according to our rules. Well our rules do allow a protest, but that is over a scoring change made after Tuesday. He's protesting that the rules don't agree with what he thinks.

 

This is in our semi final game, winner advances to the title game with more $$ on the line.

 

My co-commish and I are basically telling him he's asking for an in-season rule change, which isn't fair since we've played under these rules all season (and since we've been using this site for our league).

 

Feedback/opinions?

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What I don't like about this "non" rule is the points scored on a "fumble return" do not go to ANY player, and are, as such, in "limbo". Surely one can agree that the points scored should go somewhere, otherwise it just doesn't make sense to have an offensive player score points that don't count, does it?

 

I had Gore last night (MFL league) and thought I'd get the 6 points, only to find out that our scoring system doesn't allow the offensive player to get the points on a "fumble return." I thought that would cost me the game, but Gore's last rush of 2 yards put me at 130.66 points, while my opponent scored 130.64, so I luckily won by 0.02.

 

However, I sent an email to our Commish asking for an explanation, and while he agreed that these were, in fact, points in limbo, that our league goes by NFL stats and the TD was NOT awarded to Gore as either a rushing TD or passing TD, thus no points. He did indicate that this was something the league would look at during the off-season.

 

I think it's only fair to award the points to the offensive player scoring them, whether it's by pass, rush or "fumble return."

 

Just my 0.02 (pun intended)

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Your rules are clear, he does not get the points.

 

He can ask to vote to change that next season, he can choose to not play in the league next season, he can choose to keep his pouty face on, whatever he wants.

 

I suppose if your rules do allow for an in season rule change via some sort of vote or something, he could ask for that.

 

As you said, this isn't exactly a rare occurrence and had happened several times this year already, so seems pretty cut and dry. It is a category your league does not score, thus it is in no way shape or form "points in limbo", as there are no points awarded to anyone in the league for this particular act. It'd be akin to a player whining that he didn't get points for a reception when all season long you have been a non-PPR league.

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1) If your rules don't say in any certain terms that it does get scored, then he has no leg to stand on.

 

2) In-season scoring changes are problematic enough, but when it's the person who benefits from the rule change that's calling for it, then they are only acting in self-interest and not being objective.

 

Further, "I thought" and "I didn't know" simply cannot fly this deep into the season. Perhaps if it's caught early the first time it happens, but you can't just go changing rules, most definitely not scoring, during the playoffs.

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Here's the other question I always ask. Do offensive players get credited with the yardage or anything for returning their team's own fumble anywhere else on the field? If it's not worthy of being credited with the yardage or recovery, why should that change just because the ball happened to squirt towards him with a path around the endzone?

 

Not saying it's wrong to have rules that specify that those TDs count, but absent rules in place, then it's really no different than returning your own team's fumble to anywhere else on the field, it just happened to be to the endzone.

Edited by delusions of grandeur
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I think if gore got the hand off clearly had possession and then fumbled picked it up and ran in he gets the points. But since it happened on the handoff (or snap, don't clearly recall), and the fumble is kapernicks it is a fumble recovery td and no points...remember Antonio browns td earlier this year? Fumbles on a reception and recovered in the end zone still counted

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First off, you absolutely have to score plays with how the official scoring is interpreted by your league settings. Allowing any latitude at all sets up a precedent that rewards someone for actually watching a play occur over those who don't.

 

Dude doesn't have an argument.

 

Now, I think it's silly to have this rule in place, because it needlessly differentiates between a guy picking the ball up off the ground and having it handed to him. Frank Gore made an amazing play, somewhat more so than had he simply gotten the hand-off. Thus, I fail to see any rational reason why you'd have a rule in place that doesn't reward that play. What is the downside that you're trying to prevent that's worth penalizing the guy who started Gore?

 

FF should be fun. Watching a guy you started stand in the middle of the endzone with the ball in his hands because he just scored is fun. Learning that, because of some stupid technicality that did not result in getting you points, is anything but fun.

 

But all that doesn't change that you've scored plays like this a certain way all year and must do so here.

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Thanks to all for the responses.

 

To be clear, we did not ever consciously decide to NOT score these points. Its just part of the league setup that isn't a standard offensive category. We never had it turned on and when these situations came up it was explained to the league. AFAIK we never had a vote or even major discussion to score these fumble recovery TDs.

 

I would have no problem changing our rules in the future, but not now just so this guy wins. (Well actually barring other changes the game would be a tie, and we then need the owners to some to some agreement on tie breaker or we do a coin toss.)

 

detlef,

As I said, we never decided specifically to exclude these scores, it was just a default setting. (No that doesn't mean our scoring is set up wrong, which this owner is claiming.) As far as your player standing in the EZ with the ball and not getting points, what if your player (non IDP) goes on defense and scored a TD, does he get credit for that? (Remember the Pats WR that was plaing D so much that one year, he might have done it.)

 

I think the problem here is this guy thought it was a TD, and thinks it will be corrected. No explanation we can give him is satisfactory and he has already decided that he is being screwed.

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Had the same scenario in my CHURCH league that I commish. Of course in the semi's and 2 teams are tied and one had Gore. I explained it the same way many of you have as well...not scored as a TD via any stats that I see and no yardage was added to Gore for the "run" since it was a recovery BUT I also think it should somehow count as a score for Gore and 6 points....but as many have stated since it is also NOT in our rules currenly I cannot just give Gore the points now. Maybe in 2013 but not this late in our season.

 

One owner who is tied has Bironas tonight...I am hoping/praying Bironas scores 7 points tonight so it is all a moot point.

 

Tough freak play to have happen so late in the year. :(

 

KO'd

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Anybody else have this affect their game? The owner in our league with Gore lost his game by 6 points, neither team has players in MNF.

 

He's asking why there is no score, we're explaining that offensive fumble recovery TDs are not scored in our league, and never have been. This isn't uncommon and has already happened twice this year. (Sadly we didn't bring it up to the league to reinforce it because both times it did not affect a game result.)

 

 

He doesn't seem to care, and is basically saying "well I thought any time my player scored a TD I got 6 points, why don't I on this time? I'd say that the rules are set up wrong because I didn't know that some TDs don't count."

 

We've pointed out that it has happened in the past, but probably never to this degree (deciding a playoff game). And we're pretty sure that we've covered it before.

 

He's not happy, and is saying that now he is protesting, according to our rules. Well our rules do allow a protest, but that is over a scoring change made after Tuesday. He's protesting that the rules don't agree with what he thinks.

 

This is in our semi final game, winner advances to the title game with more $$ on the line.

 

My co-commish and I are basically telling him he's asking for an in-season rule change, which isn't fair since we've played under these rules all season (and since we've been using this site for our league).

 

Feedback/opinions?

 

Did your league consciously decide that no player should be rewarded a fumble recovery TD because you guys don't believe in that that type of scoring and it's just not your bag or was it an oversight?

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He doesn't seem to care, and is basically saying "well I thought any time my player scored a TD I got 6 points, why don't I on this time? I'd say that the rules are set up wrong because I didn't know that some TDs don't count."

 

 

Dude's got a point. I had Gore projected for 90 yds rushing and 2 fumble recovery TDs. Perhaps he projected the same and didn't realize he wouldn't get the points.

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Did your league consciously decide that no player should be rewarded a fumble recovery TD because you guys don't believe in that that type of scoring and it's just not your bag or was it an oversight?

 

 

I wouldn't say an oversite, just not a standard offensive scoring category (like rusing, passing, receiving TDs) so it wasn't defined when we first used the site (many years ago). (Maybe the site didn't have the category before and it was added. According to CBS less than 5% of leagues score these fumble recovery TDs.

 

Either way, we've played under these rules for years, at this point we're not chaning during the season because now it affects a playoff game. In fact the other owner involved in this game had Garcon in Week 4 when the same thing happened to him. Didn't affect his game outcome, but did affect some other things with points that mattered.

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OK, first off, I benefited from the score and learned new football rules because of it.

 

I find it laughable that everyone wants to point out ONE out of over a hundred scoring categories that the majority of leagues don't use. OFRTD (offensive Fumble Recovery for a TD) is one of those categories that are used in less than 5% of the leagues.

 

You have the option to set this up as a valid score for your league or not, your choice.

 

As the owner it is even more embarrassing that they don't know this and are wanting to call foul. tell him to just enable every potential scoring category and re-calculate every game you played this season or just tell him to pound sand.

 

The NFL, which governs the scoring system for the "actual" games (Not ESPN, CBS Sports" or any other governing body) has so far ruled it as a fumble (this is true), that was picked up by Gore (also true) and he broke the end zone plain to score a TD (also true), which is ruled as a fumble recovered by an offensive player who then scored a TD. That is what the scoring category is for.

 

MOST fantasy leagues do not activate this scoring rule, so it is perfectly fine for some scores to go, "unscored". For instance if your league doesn't allow for credit for a forced fumble, that is a potential score that no one gets credit for. So what it's a TD, same rules apply.

 

Anyone that wants to vote on changing a rule AFTER the scoring has already occurred is really a cheater. Beware about playing in the same league if the same owner is your commish next year. Inevitably he will lose a game because he didn't get credit for passing attempts, punt return yards, or a forced fumble. Most people do not understand the complexity of scoring possibilities, they only understand a touchdown.....idiots...I loves football, you can play football, on a football field, with........a football....morons...Tell him APtheBEAST says he's trying to cheat and call him out on it.

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Doesn't help the current situation for your league or others, but I would say any league that has Gore on a team still alive will be clarifying their rules from this point forward.

 

Don't remember the specific instance, but our league covered this one on a similar dispute years ago. Our league rules clearly state that ANY TD scored by a rostered individual by ANY means, offense, defense, ST, are awarded to the individual. The logic was the same as some have pointed above... Gore scored a TD, he should get credit for it. At times this has lead to 'double dipping' when a played individual scores on special teams... say Hester and the Bears on a return TD. If somebody played Hester he gets the points, but so does the CHI D/ST.

 

Our league doesn't do return yds, so the 9 yds Gore covered to score are not scored... not ru or rec yds, but for us the TD absolutely counts.

 

By the letter of the law we had one play years ago where 1 player got credit for a TD twice... anybody remember the Brad Johnson deflected pass that he caught himself then ran in? Yep BJ got credit for a TD pass and rec on the same play and was scored as such.

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Thanks to all for the responses.

 

To be clear, we did not ever consciously decide to NOT score these points. Its just part of the league setup that isn't a standard offensive category. We never had it turned on and when these situations came up it was explained to the league. AFAIK we never had a vote or even major discussion to score these fumble recovery TDs.

 

I would have no problem changing our rules in the future, but not now just so this guy wins. (Well actually barring other changes the game would be a tie, and we then need the owners to some to some agreement on tie breaker or we do a coin toss.)

 

detlef,

As I said, we never decided specifically to exclude these scores, it was just a default setting. (No that doesn't mean our scoring is set up wrong, which this owner is claiming.) As far as your player standing in the EZ with the ball and not getting points, what if your player (non IDP) goes on defense and scored a TD, does he get credit for that? (Remember the Pats WR that was plaing D so much that one year, he might have done it.)

 

I think the problem here is this guy thought it was a TD, and thinks it will be corrected. No explanation we can give him is satisfactory and he has already decided that he is being screwed.

 

I specifically set up every league I'm in charge of setting up to reward players for every TD they score. End of story. I don't care what the situation is. If you start a player and he ends up standing in the endzone celebrating a TD, you get 6 pts.

 

Not only is it blissfully simple. "Is his name in the box score next to TD? Yes? He gets 6pts?' It's also way more fun.

 

Say you start a WR who is so freaking bad-ass that he ends up playing D, picks off a pass, and runs it back for a TD. Why in the hell shouldn't you get pts for that? That'd be effing amazing! You'd have to be a total killjoy to nix that.

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I specifically set up every league I'm in charge of setting up to reward players for every TD they score. End of story. I don't care what the situation is. If you start a player and he ends up standing in the endzone celebrating a TD, you get 6 pts.

 

Not only is it blissfully simple. "Is his name in the box score next to TD? Yes? He gets 6pts?' It's also way more fun.

 

Say you start a WR who is so freaking bad-ass that he ends up playing D, picks off a pass, and runs it back for a TD. Why in the hell shouldn't you get pts for that? That'd be effing amazing! You'd have to be a total killjoy to nix that.

 

This!

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I specifically set up every league I'm in charge of setting up to reward players for every TD they score. End of story. I don't care what the situation is. If you start a player and he ends up standing in the endzone celebrating a TD, you get 6 pts.

 

Not only is it blissfully simple. "Is his name in the box score next to TD? Yes? He gets 6pts?' It's also way more fun.

 

Say you start a WR who is so freaking bad-ass that he ends up playing D, picks off a pass, and runs it back for a TD. Why in the hell shouldn't you get pts for that? That'd be effing amazing! You'd have to be a total killjoy to nix that.

 

Good for you. Seriously not sure what I should say. Our league has rules and we will follow them. If a majority of the owners want to include OFRTD or others, or make some generic catch all "if my guy scored I get points" then we'll deal with it.

 

The OFRTD isn't counted in our league because as a group we haven't asked for it. If I were starting a league from scratch I would probably include it. But I'm not even sure it was there when we first set up on CBS (over 10 years ago). Is it better to use, well I always thought that scoring decisions were up to each league ;)

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We had this happen with last week's game, we did not have it set up properly in CBS, but clarified that it was a 6 pt TD. Dude that lost was cool with it and thought it should count as well. could have been ugly, but we have a pretty good group going on 20+ years. I did not think this would happen again for years, thanks to Steve's post last week we clarified and this week everyone was aware of the rule.

 

Agree with Detlef if you player is in the endzone with the ball....you should be chest bumpin your wife.

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This isnt 1994....we arent grabbing newspapers and and a pencil and paper to figure out our scoring or calling our buddy the almighty commissioner to put our lineup in on time or ask him rule changes months into the season....

 

you have the option for offensive fumble return td in the league settings .....and everything else for that matter all set up prior to the draft. if this is an issue, take note of it now...and address it before next years draft and make the changes.......

 

i would be upset too if i was your buddy, but not at the league rules just at the situation...and there is absolutely no reason you should change the league settings and award 6 pts to gore

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Anybody else have this affect their game? The owner in our league with Gore lost his game by 6 points, neither team has players in MNF.

 

...

 

He's not happy, and is saying that now he is protesting, according to our rules. Well our rules do allow a protest, but that is over a scoring change made after Tuesday. He's protesting that the rules don't agree with what he thinks.

 

This is in our semi final game, winner advances to the title game with more $$ on the line.

 

My co-commish and I are basically telling him he's asking for an in-season rule change, which isn't fair since we've played under these rules all season (and since we've been using this site for our league).

 

Feedback/opinions?

 

 

Tough luck?

 

Barring a unanimous rules change vote it stands

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You gotta get credit for a fumble recovery for a TD. Your player that you started scored a TD! How can you not get credit for that???? It's more of an oversight that it isn't scored because somebody forgot to put "offensive fumble recovery for a TD" in the scoring. If this has come up before, and you have decided not to award points for it, I guess I can understand (but it is retarded). But if it hasn't come up before, he should get the TD!

Edited by CaptainHook
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