rajncajn Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I know you guys don't want to hear anything about bounties from me, so I'm just going to post this and let it speak for itself. No rebuttals, no back-and-forth. So post whatever you like, you already know how I feel. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57558666/demaurice-smith-nfl-bounty-program-never-existed/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) So the head of the players union who could take plenty of heat if there was a bounty program is claiming there was never such a program, and we're supposed to believe that. From the article He said, "Having seen nearly 50,000 pages of evidence and nearly 20 hours of testimony, I know that there was no bounty put on players by Saints players." Really so because there was no proof in there he knows there wasn't such a program? Is that like knowing that God doesn't exist because there is no physical proof that he does? And he calls on the NFL to apologize to the players. Really, does he call on players to apologize to the fans when they screw up? Let it ride, or maybe just let it die. Edited January 9, 2013 by stevegrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Asked if the NFL should apologize to the Saints head coach Sean Payton, who was not permitted to participate this season, Smith said "yes," but acknowledged "there's a difference between where the players were and the coaches are." So if there is no evidence of a bounty, why wouldn't Sean Payton be redeemed as well. I have problems with this simple fact. Edited January 9, 2013 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Smith is a very intelligent moran. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Smith is a very intelligent moran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 A- I can't take anything Smith says seriously B- If there were no bounties why are Williams and Payton still suspended C- D. Smith is a joke D- Why would the NFL arbitrarily decided to make an example of the Saints if they had not done anything? I'm not buying any persecution complex defense. We all know if the NFL wanted to make a franchise and fanbase suffer they would go after Philly first E- See A and C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) D- Why would the NFL arbitrarily decided to make an example of the Saints if they had not done anything? I'm not buying any persecution complex defense. We all know if the NFL wanted to make a franchise and fanbase suffer they would go after Philly first This is where the grand conspiracy fall flat... Why would Goodell, facing pressure and lawsuits over concussions and injuries, go trying to invent a story about a team that is 1/32 of the NFL, and 1/32 of the owners he's paid to represent. See, if I was going to try to figure out a scapegoat, then I don't think I'd choose one of the guys who pays my paycheck and gave me my job. There's just no possible motive to try to sweep the injury issues under the rug by inventing a pay-to-injure scandal involving a team in the league you're representing, and only add more questions about what else might be going on behind closed doors. Not to mention, all indications are that this was a matter of insubordination, since the league had told them to cut it out in the past, showing that they were more than happy to sweep it under the rug. Edited January 10, 2013 by delusions of grandeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 A- I can't take anything Smith says seriously B- If there were no bounties why are Williams and Payton still suspended C- D. Smith is a joke D- Why would the NFL arbitrarily decided to make an example of the Saints if they had not done anything? I'm not buying any persecution complex defense. We all know if the NFL wanted to make a franchise and fanbase suffer they would go after Philly first E- See A and C F- If Payton and Williams did nothing wrong, why did they accept their punishment and not appeal or even once say they are innocent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Couch Potatoe Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 F- If Payton and Williams did nothing wrong, why did they accept their punishment and not appeal or even once say they are innocent? bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) F- If Payton and Williams did nothing wrong, why did they accept their punishment and not appeal or even once say they are innocent? bingo I said that I was going to let this post ride, but I do want to clear up this inaccuracy since it is the only thing that was posted here that is not speculation. All three, Payton, Loomis & Vitt said that they did not do what they were being accused of, I can post quotes & links if needed, but prefer not to drag this thread into the mud like the others. They also, all three, did appeal their suspensions, which were heard by Goodell and denied. Sorry for the edit, I just don't want to get into trying to explain my position again over & over so I'm just keeping any further opinions to myself. Edited January 11, 2013 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 Did anyone really think that Rajn would not post a second time on this thread, despite declaring he wouldn't? And what debate are you really looking for? Was due process done? No. Were the Saints guilty in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt? No. Is Roger Goodell a Fascist? Yes. But did the Saints partake in Bountism after being warned by the league not to? Yes. I said I wasn't going to give any rebuttal or get into the back and forth, but I'm not going to sit there and let somebody post things that just are not true. people should be allowed to form their opinions on facts, not in accuracies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 A- I can't take anything Smith says seriously B- If there were no bounties why are Williams and Payton still suspended C- D. Smith is a joke D- Why would the NFL arbitrarily decided to make an example of the Saints if they had not done anything? I'm not buying any persecution complex defense. We all know if the NFL wanted to make a franchise and fanbase suffer they would go after Philly first E- See A and C not understanding the philly part but the rest is pretty much spot on IMO. When does this die Raj...never? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 not understanding the philly part but the rest is pretty much spot on IMO. When does this die Raj...never? The Philly part was more of a joke. I don't think the NFL would intentionally target any team despite what some people would believe. Its not like were talking the NHL rigging the draft for the Pans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The Philly part was more of a joke. I don't think the NFL would intentionally target any team despite what some people would believe. Its not like were talking the NHL rigging the draft for the Pans ah. I don't think so either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I said that I was going to let this post ride, but I do want to clear up this inaccuracy since it is the only thing that was posted here that is not speculation. All three, Payton, Loomis & Vitt said that they did not do what they were being accused of, I can post quotes & links if needed, but prefer not to drag this thread into the mud like the others. They also, all three, did appeal their suspensions, which were heard by Goodell and denied. Sorry for the edit, I just don't want to get into trying to explain my position again over & over so I'm just keeping any further opinions to myself. Please do show me the quotes, because i can't find any. I did find this though: ''These are serious violations and we understand the negative impact it has had on our game,'' Payton and Loomis added. ''Both of us have made it clear within our organization that this will never happen again, and make that same promise to the NFL and most importantly to all of our fans,'' Payton and Loomis said in a joint statement Tuesday Saying it will never happen again sure doesn't sound the same as "This didn't happen and I'm innocent." http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-orleans-saints-coach-sean-payton-gm-mickey-loomis-accept-blame-for-bounty-program-030612 Edited January 13, 2013 by Bring Back Pat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Also found this: – It was interesting to hear him dance around the questions about his punishment and why some have spoken out against the NFL, but he hasn’t. Some players have said nothing existed, coaches have said there wasn’t any pay-for-injury system, etc. Others have acknowledged performance bonuses. Payton has kept quiet. Why? He took the pragmatic approach. One, he doesn’t feel protected, noting, “We’re in a much different position than the players, in regards to players having a union.” Then, he added, “I think ultimately our goal is to get reinstated at the right time.” That, to me, means Payton is choosing his future return over trying to wage a public battle against the past. Essentially, he’s chosen not to fight. Because he knows the punishment fits? Because he’s already apologized and acknowledges what he did wrong? Because there is no point and minds are made up? It’s left unsaid. But Payton clearly has shown he believes some punishment was justified, since he has not fought it. Later, Payton says he doesn’t wish he fought the charges: “We tried to do everything possible to show as much as cooperation as possible.” If Payton did not believe punishment was warranted, why would he cooperate at all? http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/09/05/on-what-saints-coach-sean-payton-said-and-didnt-say/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) It'll be a little easier to quote from the Wikipedia page. It has links to the sources: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Sean_Payton Payton was suspended for the entire 2012 NFL season, originally set to take effect April 1, 2012, as a result of his alleged involvement in the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal, under which "bounties" were allegedly paid for contact that would "knock out" targeted players on opposing teams. Payton has denied that any program encouraging Saints players to injure opposing players ever existed, even though the NFL claims their evidence proves otherwise.[1] Assistant coach Joe Vitt stated "We had a pay to perform program, just like many NFL teams do, but there was never a bounty program, we didn't ever encourage a pay-to-injure program. That's just not true. We never crossed the line." Payton filed an appeal of his suspension with the league the Friday before it was set to take effect. On April 9, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell (the same individual who handed down the suspension) denied his appeal; his suspension began on April 16.[2] You also answered some of your own questions in regards to why Payton has not waged a public battle with your last post, but it's also because of the respect he has for the organization and the Benson family. He's said multiple times that he just wants to get back to the team as quickly as possible & the only way to do that is by not fighting. Edited January 13, 2013 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 He's said multiple times that he just wants to get back to the team as quickly as possible & the only way to do that is by not fighting. wait...what?? he was suspended for a season. if he fought it or claimed he was innocent he would'nt have came back after the yr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The coaches are not part of the CBA so he had limited rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 The coaches are not part of the CBA so he had limited rights. Thank you. The coaches only recourse was appeal to Goodell. Once he turned that down there was nothing else they could do but accept the penalty. In Payton's case his reinstatement is dependent on his cooperation, so fighting it or speaking out would likely only prolong the the suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Rajn, you posting then saying you will not post a response is like throwing a wounded gazelle into a lions den and expecting them to sit still. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 It'll be a little easier to quote from the Wikipedia page. It has links to the sources: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Sean_Payton You also answered some of your own questions in regards to why Payton has not waged a public battle with your last post, but it's also because of the respect he has for the organization and the Benson family. He's said multiple times that he just wants to get back to the team as quickly as possible & the only way to do that is by not fighting. I don't see any quotes from Payton there. I followed to the wiki ( :oldrolleyes: ) and don't see any quotes there either. I gave you direct quotes that indicate guilt. You have no direct quotes from him claiming innocence. I don't care if i don't have a union backing or not. If I get accused of doing something I did not do. I fight and scream and yell and tell every person I can find that I'm innocent. The fact is, he knew he was caught so he stopped fighting and took his medicine like a man. Whether he knew what the evidence was or not, he knew he was guilty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) I don't see any quotes from Payton there. I followed to the wiki ( :oldrolleyes: ) and don't see any quotes there either. I gave you direct quotes that indicate guilt. You have no direct quotes from him claiming innocence. I don't care if i don't have a union backing or not. If I get accused of doing something I did not do. I fight and scream and yell and tell every person I can find that I'm innocent. The fact is, he knew he was caught so he stopped fighting and took his medicine like a man. Whether he knew what the evidence was or not, he knew he was guilty. BBP, It's pretty common knowledge that Payton denied that they had a bounty program to the league office. The fact that I cannot immediately find a direct quote from him is irrelevant unless you want to say that the league office was lying about that when it was reported. You said that none of them ever appealed or even once said they were innocent. I gave you a quote from Vitt which was taken after his suspension was lifted denying what the league was accusing them of and posted info regarding the fact that they all appealed their suspension and that they all denied having bounties on players. You can have whatever opinion you want regarding what the Saints did or didn't do, I'm not going to argue with your opinions either way, as I stated here in the beginning. However, the information you posted originally was factually incorrect and, as I said before, I don't think that people should form their opinions based on incorrect information. I don't mean any offense by pointing that out and my intentions were never to get into a debate on our opinions of why he has kept relatively quiet during his suspension. I just wanted to set the record straight in that regard, nothing more. Edited January 14, 2013 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 You had no intentions of letting this ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Whether he knew what the evidence was or not, he knew he was guilty. This is key. Notice that their proclamations of innocence only seemed to come once they saw that the NFL might not have the strongest case against them. More power to them to make Goodell prove it, but lawyering does not equate to innocence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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