Bronco Billy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 lol That's like saying, "Between Tony Gonzalez, Marcedes Lewis and Dustin Keller, I think I'll go Gonzalez." Yeah, me too. No, it's not remotely comparable to the TE scenario you used. That you would think so only reinforces how much your mouth runs without the brain being engaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 No, it's not remotely comparable to the TE scenario you used. That you would think so only reinforces how much your mouth runs without the brain being engaged. Agreed! The TE scenario used was not a good analogy at all. T-Rich and Spiller are both bonafide 1st rounders and ranked in the top 7 RBs and dipsy doodle just compared a Top 3 TE, in Gonzo, to other TEs not in the Top 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 lol That's like saying, "Between Tony Gonzalez, Marcedes Lewis and Dustin Keller, I think I'll go Gonzalez." Yeah, me too. Poor comparison. ADP on MFL: Spiller - 7.08 Richardson- 7.30 McCoy - 8.62 Gonzalez - 67.79 Keller - 171.48 Lewis - 204.04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 What those guys said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 No, it's not remotely comparable to the TE scenario you used. That you would think so only reinforces how much your mouth runs without the brain being engaged. And would you stop poking the troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 And would you stop poking the troll. This is actual discussion of players. That doesn't qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 This is actual discussion of players. That doesn't qualify. knew, you'd like that. yeah, i hear ya and still can't believe that comparison was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I watched every CLE game last year and I do not think the injuries to Richardson are related to his running style. I think he runs hard, but isn't always looking to punish the tackler, or struggling to get that extra yard (fumble and injury risk). The point about the CLE D improving is also valid. As far as the offense though, its hard to say right now, but I get the feeling from Chud and Norv that it is going to be more open, more passing, and more big plays. Not saying that greatly reduces T-Rich's looks. We really have to wait and see how things go in preseason. BTW, Hardesty is also out of this game so we're not going to get much insight into who is the backup, but I fully expect it to be him. From the article I linked yesterday "Chudzinski also said second-string running back Montario Hardesty won’t play Thursday. He has missed most of training camp with an injured hamstring tendon. Running backs Dion Lewis and Chris Ogbonnaya will work with the first-team offense against the Rams, Chudzinski said. Ogbonnaya is listed as the top fullback on the team’s depth chart, so Lewis will likely start at tailback." It is possible that Lewis impresses and takes over as #2 RB, but not likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 The TE scenario used was not a good analogy at all. Axually it was a perfect scenario. Tony Gonzalez is a top 10 TE. Trent Richardson is a top 10 RB. Marcedes Lewis and Dustin Keller are not top 10 TEs. CJ Spiller and LeSean McCoy are not top 10 RBs--despite the faulty public misapperception that has artificially inflated their respective ADPs. I'm talking about 2013 end-of-the-year stats here, not ADPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Axually it was a perfect scenario. Tony Gonzalez is a top 10 TE. Trent Richardson is a top 10 RB. Marcedes Lewis and Dustin Keller are not top 10 TEs. CJ Spiller and LeSean McCoy are not top 10 RBs--despite the faulty public misapperception that has artificially inflated their respective ADPs. I'm talking about 2013 end-of-the-year stats here, not ADPs. You know, you'd enhance your credibility and likability by enormous amounts if you would explain your rationale for making such bold statements about high ADP RBs performing well below their perceived value instead of matter-of-factly stating something that is clearly against conventional wisdom as though everyone else are complete idiots for not seeing it your way. I sincerely doubt you are capable of this, but I could be mistaken and it might be entertaining to watch you try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Axually it was a perfect scenario. Tony Gonzalez is a top 10 TE. Trent Richardson is a top 10 RB. Marcedes Lewis and Dustin Keller are not top 10 TEs. CJ Spiller and LeSean McCoy are not top 10 RBs--despite the faulty public misapperception that has artificially inflated their respective ADPs. I'm talking about 2013 end-of-the-year stats here, not ADPs. Actually, it is not a perfect scenario and is absolutely a poor analogy, however, you just can't admit being wrong. McCoy may not end up being Top 10 this year, as he finished #16 last year but we can say that about any player. Spiller finished #6 and T-Rich finished #8 last year. However, all 3 players are Top 10 at the RB position and are being drafted as such. Comparing these 3 RBs to the 3 TEs you used is absolutely asinine. TGon was 2nd overall at the TE position last year and has always been a STUD, while Lewis was 18th and Keller was 36th and neither of them can come close to comparing to Gonzalez. Like I already said, when it comes to this year, TGon is once again considered not only Top 10 but Top 5 or higher, while Lewis and Keller barely scratch the Top 20. So in summation - You're comparing 3 Top 10 RBs with 1 Top 3 TE and 2 other TEs that barely make the top 20. = A very piss poor analogy, which can't be argued unless of course you want to look clueless when it comes to FF or state it as fact because you think you're better and more knowledgeable than everyone else, which you are obviously not. And BB, he is not capable of what you're asking and honestly, I don't want to hear him try because it won't be based on stats or any other credible info, it'll be based on arrogance, his napolean complex, insecurity and flat out just a narcissist responding because he got his feelings hurt by being challenged when he was blatantly wrong. Edited August 8, 2013 by irish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 TGon was 2nd overall at the TE position last year and has always been a STUD, while Lewis was 18th and Keller was 36th and neither of them can come close to comparing to Gonzalez. So you understand the analogy then. Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) So you understand the analogy then. Good. Do you understand that you don't know what analogy means? Do you realize that you're wrong? All 3 RBs are STUDS while only Gonzo is. Get it yet? Edited August 8, 2013 by irish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 You know, you'd enhance your credibility and likability by enormous amounts if you would explain your rationale for making such bold statements about high ADP RBs performing well below their perceived value instead of matter-of-factly stating something that is clearly against conventional wisdom as though everyone else are complete idiots for not seeing it your way. My credibility is established at the end of every season, when all of my "bold" statements are borne out by axual statistics. My likability is irrelevant. I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to offer you a fantasy football education so comprehensive and accurate that it could only come from Baby Jane. My more perceptive students have already noted the rationales I have posted for avoiding McCoy and Spiller this year, and why they will not be top 10 RBs at the end of the season, despite their ADPs as such now. Those students understand that we can now talk about these conclusions as matters of fact, and not opinion, but if you are in need of some remedial tutoring, you can find the treatise here: http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?/topic/400176-axe-elf-hates-the-players-you-love/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) So you understand the analogy then. Good. Let me try to help you a bit. Then maybe you won't come off like such a condescending dick - since more than a few people here understand FF very well. Please post your projected carries, catches, yards, and TDs for Richardson, McCoy, and Spiller. Edited August 8, 2013 by Bronco Billy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Do you understand that you don't know what analogy means? Metaphor is to simile as analogy is to _________. All 3 RBs are STUDS while only Gonzo is. Well, that's the problem now, isn't it--all three RBs are NOT studs, only one is. That was the point that the analogy was intended to illustrate. Get it yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Please post your projected carries, catches, yards, and TDs for Richardson, McCoy, and Spiller. I don't make exact predictions, I just advise you on who you should target, who you should avoid, and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I don't make exact predictions, I just advise you on who you should target, who you should avoid, and why. . Okay. Let's hear the why on why McCoy and Spiller both finish out of the top 15 to 20 RBs. I'm really trying to be patient and give you yet another chance. I find it difficult to believe that someone as intelligent and prescient as you claim to be can't provide projections when FF scoring is based upon performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Metaphor is to simile as analogy is to _________. Well, that's the problem now, isn't it--all three RBs are NOT studs, only one is. That was the point that the analogy was intended to illustrate. Get it yet? Your quote below- ------------------------------------------ LeSean McCoy was one of the top 3 RBs off the board in 2012 after his career year in 2011. However, that same offensive system left him outside the top 20 RBs by season’s end (right behind Mikel LeShoure). In all fairness, he did miss four games with an injury, but his two rushing TDs on the season didn’t exactly make him a coveted commodity the rest of the year, either. I’m not sure why everyone thinks he will be back as a top 10 RB this season, with a new offensive system, a rookie NFL coach, what promises to be a lingering QB controversy--and perhaps most importantly, the fifth-hardest schedule for RBs in the league. Maybe he will, but I can’t bring myself to hang a first round pick on those circumstances. -------------------------------------- First of all, in my leagues, McCoy was ranked 16th last year not 20th and was 21 points shy of being in the Top 10 and that's, like you said, after missing 4 games and only having 2 TDs (can you say aberration?). However, do yourself the favor and look at the actual games McCoy played and when you see the average per game that he scored, you'll realize that he was not only Top 10 but Top 5 last year with 17.11 pts per game behind only ADP, Martin, Foster and Rice. That new offensive system you speak of will lean heavily on the RBs and as long as McCoy remains healthy he will be Top 10 yet again. Oh and BTW, after McCoy ranked 5th in per game scoring, T-Rich ranked 7th and Spiller 9th. TGon was 3rd in per game scoring, Keller was 18th and Lewis was 21st = not a good comparison. Again, you're analogy is wrong and I hope you've gained some knowledge and humility from this lesson. Edited August 8, 2013 by irish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 At least stop quoting this idiot please. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 At least stop quoting this idiot please. Lol. Apologies to those who have him on ignore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Lol. Apologies to those who have him on ignore. Same here. I'm done with this fool anyhow as being a "real" teacher, sometimes, you just have to realize, you can't help those who won't help themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 First of all, in my leagues, McCoy was ranked 16th last year not 20th and was 21 points shy of being in the Top 10 and that's, like you said, after missing 4 games and only having 2 TDs (can you say aberration?). However, do yourself the favor and look at the actual games McCoy played and when you see the average per game that he scored, you'll realize that he was not only Top 10 but Top 5 last year with 17.11 pts per game behind only ADP, Martin, Foster and Rice. That new offensive system you speak of will lean heavily on the RBs and as long as McCoy remains healthy he will be Top 10 yet again. Oh and BTW, after McCoy ranked 5th in per game scoring, T-Rich ranked 7th and Spiller 9th. TGon was 3rd in per game scoring, Keller was 18th and Lewis was 21st = not a good comparison. Well, I guess I should make a disclaimer for freaky scoring systems. In "standard" non-PPR scoring, McCoy scored 145.30 points, which was 21st among RBs. He was 57.50 points from being in the top 10, which means he scored a minimum of almost 4 points per week fewer than a top 10 RB. If Keller was 18th and Lewis was 21st (and axually, Keller should do even better than that this year), then the analogy is entirely apt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiroacademy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I was at the Indi/CLE game last year. I was excited to see T Richardson play. I had him as my RB1. He sat nearly the entire game. He rushed for 8 yards for the game:( I believe he had an ankle injury in the first half. He paced the entire game wanting to get in but it looked like the CLE staff held him out. CLE maybe overly cautious with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Well, I guess I should make a disclaimer for freaky scoring systems. In "standard" non-PPR scoring, McCoy scored 145.30 points, which was 21st among RBs. He was 57.50 points from being in the top 10, which means he scored a minimum of almost 4 points per week fewer than a top 10 RB. If Keller was 18th and Lewis was 21st (and axually, Keller should do even better than that this year), then the analogy is entirely apt. And in ATAP, which is graduated ppr (and most knowledgeable FF vets play ppr - you did know that, right?) McCoy was 8th in RB ppg while Spiller was 9th. So you are either predicting a precipitous drop off for both or are predicting injuries. Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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