Bronco Billy Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Am I missing something? Yes. Quite a bit apparently. Intentionally by all appearances. Blue colored glasses seems to have something to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Just because I'm not ready to call Trent a bust? Or a bad trade? I hardly think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 it sure seems that way to everyone else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Just because I'm not ready to call Trent a bust? Or a bad trade? I hardly think so. Okay. You just keep on hoping he'll eventually be 1st round talent. On the other hand, you aren't betraying your team by being honest. In fact, I believe you do them a disservice by following blindly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I criticize the Colts plenty. For example, I think making Kavell Conner inactive last night may have cost them the game. Even with all the dropped passes. I just think it ridiculous to call Trent a bust. The Colts interior line is not good. He's learning his third offensive system in 20 games. Everybody complains he only has 3 ypc. Last night he has 4.0. Still complaints. Is he supposed to bust every play for a TD? The guy had 11 touches last night and averaged 4.8 per. Is he a fantasy bust? Yes. But it's pretty dumb to call him a bust or clamor for Donald Brown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 By the way, Donald Brown is also a "first round talent". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I criticize the Colts plenty. For example, I think making Kavell Conner inactive last night may have cost them the game. Even with all the dropped passes. I just think it ridiculous to call Trent a bust. The Colts interior line is not good. He's learning his third offensive system in 20 games. Everybody complains he only has 3 ypc. Last night he has 4.0. Still complaints. Is he supposed to bust every play for a TD? The guy had 11 touches last night and averaged 4.8 per. Is he a fantasy bust? Yes. But it's pretty dumb to call him a bust or clamor for Donald Brown. I'm calling him mediocre. I see no evidence that supports an opinion that he's a stud RB. So if you burned a 1st rounder on him, yeah that makes him a bust. What can you bring to the table that would convince an objective observer otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 By the way, Donald Brown is also a "first round talent". Are you saying that Brown is also a stud in hiding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 No, just that first round pick does not equal "stud". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobwaa Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 a STUD rb is a pretty misused term these days... if its even debated than he isn't one. AP, Foster, McCoy, Charles..... studs. Can score from anywhere at anytime and don't need excuses. Trent is not near these guys imo...I think CLE made the right move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Brown Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I suppose it's to early to label him as a bust. But everyone is seeing the same thing. A plodder. To me he seems like Marshawn Lynch with even less quickness and an inability to break tackles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 No, just that first round pick does not equal "stud". I think you can get away with that if you draft a guy in the 1st. Different if you trade a 1st for a 2nd yr player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The truth lies somewhere between. Richardson isn't a "bust" IMO. I think expectations were really high after the trade was announced. The surface level reaction was "stud RB goes to a team that is actually good on offense - he'll crack double digit TDs easily". But CaptainHook makes a good point about the interior OL, and the Dwayne Allen injury further hurts the running game. The Browns' run blocking is definitely superior to Indy's. At the same time, you have a guy that was taken at the very beginning of the draft last year - we tend to think of guys drafted that early "can't miss" prospects. Of course, they can miss. But expectations are that they will be studs. It's hard to put a finger on this situation. I think he's probably a good buy low candidate still. But I'm not convinced he's even going to be a top 10 RB the rest of the way which means he might not be worth trading for (seriously, what TRich owner is going to give him up cheaply?). Last night's game was just weird... The Chargers haven't really stopped anyone for the most part this season, yet they made Indy look bad. Is the coaching/playcalling that bad? I tend to think you have to point at the coach when a team loses a game like that one. I mean, how do you handle Seattle well one week then let the Chargers beat you by double digits the next? The Donald Brown rotation is also a mystery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardway Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The truth lies somewhere between. Richardson isn't a "bust" IMO. I think expectations were really high after the trade was announced. The surface level reaction was "stud RB goes to a team that is actually good on offense - he'll crack double digit TDs easily". But CaptainHook makes a good point about the interior OL, and the Dwayne Allen injury further hurts the running game. The Browns' run blocking is definitely superior to Indy's. At the same time, you have a guy that was taken at the very beginning of the draft last year - we tend to think of guys drafted that early "can't miss" prospects. Of course, they can miss. But expectations are that they will be studs. It's hard to put a finger on this situation. I think he's probably a good buy low candidate still. But I'm not convinced he's even going to be a top 10 RB the rest of the way which means he might not be worth trading for (seriously, what TRich owner is going to give him up cheaply?). Last night's game was just weird... The Chargers haven't really stopped anyone for the most part this season, yet they made Indy look bad. Is the coaching/playcalling that bad? I tend to think you have to point at the coach when a team loses a game like that one. I mean, how do you handle Seattle well one week then let the Chargers beat you by double digits the next? The Donald Brown rotation is also a mystery. They lost by not stopping the run. SD dominated the TOP and Indy D couldn't get off of the field. Not sure where to put the blame, but losing Freeman was huge for them. SD just ran it up the gut continuously and Indy couldn't do crap to stop it. Also, the entire team was dropping balls, it must have been really frustrating for Luck. Did the coaches fail to prepare the team correctly? Maybe, maybe it was just one of those nights. I agree, TRich is probably going to come out a middle of the pack RB this season and I wouldn't call him a bust. He could very well be a nice surprise next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LbNiners Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 another upcoming potential dud performance but I already see the excuses being laid out as Den does have a good D and Indy will probably be playing from behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardway Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yep, I am forced to trot him out there and hope for the best anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebirds55 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 another upcoming potential dud performance but I already see the excuses being laid out as Den does have a good D and Indy will probably be playing from behind. Don't forget he is still getting acclimated to the new system.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Everyone seems to have come to the consensus that Richardson is mediocre - well, at least a majority - and yet there are those who are still taking the position that the value level is acceptable to burn a 1st rounder on him. That just doesn't equate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Everyone seems to have come to the consensus that Richardson is mediocre - well, at least a majority - and yet there are those who are still taking the position that the value level is acceptable to burn a 1st rounder on him. That just doesn't equate. I'd like to see some examples of these people. I think those who think he was worth the first round pick believe he will be far better than mediocre. That computes to me. Problem is those who think he is mediocre (or even a bust) cannot accept that they could be wrong, or even that other people with a different opinion are entitled to it. Also the everyone you mention who agree he is mediocre obviously does not include those in the Colts organztion, who know a lot more than a bunch of fantasy football gurus and other NFL experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) I'd like to see some examples of these people. I think those who think he was worth the first round pick believe he will be far better than mediocre. That computes to me. Problem is those who think he is mediocre (or even a bust) cannot accept that they could be wrong, or even that other people with a different opinion are entitled to it. Also the everyone you mention who agree he is mediocre obviously does not include those in the Colts organztion, who know a lot more than a bunch of fantasy football gurus and other NFL experts. Of course anyone can be wrong. But in order to be proven wrong one has to have incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. Right now there is plenty of evidence supporting mediocrity but seemingly very little supporting that Richardson is a superior RB. Perhaps if you know otherwise you could share it. And the "Colts know a hell of a lot more than any of you" argument is a crappy out. Pro teams make personnel mistakes every year, often mistakes that FFers recognize before the teams do - probably due to FFers making their analysis from the outside and being lot more objective whereas teams have an obvious bias and may be looking for any glimmer of hope, since they saw something they thought was there in the first place or they wouldn't have obtained the player. Lastly, we are here at a FF MB. The purpose is to discuss. But if you are basing your opinion on hunches and feelings that facts don't support of course it's going to be a much more difficult side of the argument to defend. This isn't the Democratic Convention or MSNBC. Facts matter. I'd suggest not getting so butt hurt if someone disagrees strongly with you when they have some strong corroborating evidence. They could actually be right. There is that possibility. I don't see anyone here taking the position that you aren't allowed to have a differing opinion. Where have you seen otherwise? Stop being a nancy. The only people here who have any authority to censor are the board owners, which is their absolute right to do. If you're on the weak side of an argument admit it, and if you 're wrong own it. It doesn't damage your credibility. No one is right all the time in FF. I've certainly been proven wrong enough times, and it doesn't make me less of a person to say so. Edited October 17, 2013 by Bronco Billy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Richardson's avg 3.4 ypc for the Colts. Pretty much what he avg with the Browns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Of course anyone can be wrong. But in order to be proven wrong one has to have incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. Right now there is plenty of evidence supporting mediocrity but seemingly very little supporting that Richardson is a superior RB. Perhaps if you know otherwise you could share it. And the "Colts know a hell of a lot more than any of you" argument is a crappy out. Pro teams make personnel mistakes every year, often mistakes that FFers recognize before the teams do - probably due to FFers making their analysis from the outside and being lot more objective whereas teams have an obvious bias and may be looking for any glimmer of hope, since they saw something they thought was there in the first place or they wouldn't have obtained the player. Lastly, we are here at a FF MB. The purpose is to discuss. But if you are basing your opinion on hunches and feelings that facts don't support of course it's going to be a much more difficult side of the argument to defend. This isn't the Democratic Convention or MSNBC. Facts matter. I'd suggest not getting so butt hurt if someone disagrees strongly with you when they have some strong corroborating evidence. They could actually be right. There is that possibility. I don't see anyone here taking the position that you aren't allowed to have a differing opinion. Where have you seen otherwise? Stop being a nancy. The only people here who have any authority to censor are the board owners, which is their absolute right to do. If you're on the weak side of an argument admit it, and if you 're wrong own it. It doesn't damage your credibility. No one is right all the time in FF. I've certainly been proven wrong enough times, and it doesn't make me less of a person to say so. Thanks for you insight Dr. Pompous. Your view that there is a consensus and everyone agrees he is mediocre is based on what facts? The post I responded to last time implied that everybody knows he is mediocre, including the Colts so it was stupid of them to give a 1st round pick. My point is the Colts and people who do not think they overpaid do not believe he is mediocre. But you've already dismissed that possibility since everyone (but a delusional few) know he is mediocre. Sure teams make mistakes and sure some FF recognize those before they do. But FF players don't have to make the tough decisions (costing millions with years of lasting results) like a team does. Just seems like you and some other FF and NFL experts think they could be better GMs than most teams, when in reality you'd be lost doing the job. Basically you are not as smart and experienced as you think you are. PS Way to throw in your ignorant political views that nobody cares about. Save it for the tailgate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 ugh, was just offered TRich in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebirds55 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Shots fired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LbNiners Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) 3.0ypc thus far=medicore Edited October 17, 2013 by LbNiners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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