NFL MVP? Peyton or Foles?

[darin3]

How can you say he doesn't deserve it???

 

 

Did you actually read the rest of the thread or just respond based on my first response?

 

It's pretty clear from the rest of my responses.

[stevegrab]

Yes, Demaryius was banged up his rookie season, but still played in 10 games. He was also banged up his sophmore season, but still played in 11 games. You can't deny his talent, he was a first round draft pick and showed signs of being an impact player his first two seasons (everyone remembers his 80 yard catch in the playoffs against the Steeler's). While I know this kind of talk is sometimes nothing but lip service he certainly gives a ton of credit to Manning helping him learn how to be a great receiver. Of course we will never know where his career would have gone if Manning didn't sign with them, but there is no mistaking how good he became when Peyton showed up.

 

I had him on my fantasy team in 2011 and he was already starting to blossom with Tebow. Had to go back and check his stats, played 11 games, started 5, 32 rec, 551 yards (17.2 average) and 4TD. Extrapolate those 11 games to a full season gives you 46rec, 801yards, 6TD, hardly a random WR.

 

When Peyton signed with the Broncos I knew he'd get even better and quickly decided he'd be a keeper going into 2012.

 

I do agree though in general that Peyton makes all those offensive weapons better. He did not join a team full of offensive studs.

[Tripleshot]

As for Wilson, I don’t think he should be in the running. They have arguably the best defenses in the league and a power running game, there are plenty of QB’s that could win in that system. Not taking anything away from him, just saying.

 

 

Yup, he has perhaps the best defense in the league and Marshawn Lynch. But he also lost his WR1 for the season, was without his two starting tackles for most of the season until the last two games, was missing his top tight end and pro-bowl center for multiple games, and generally has far less talent at WR than Manning. So if you're going to ding him for what he has(defense, run game), you'd better credit him for what he doesn't have. There's no way they're 11-1, nor would they be the odds-on favorite for playoff hfa without him, and that right there will have as much impact as who makes the Super Bowl from the NFC than anything.

[Def.]

Yup, he has perhaps the best defense in the league and Marshawn Lynch. But he also lost his WR1 for the season, was without his two starting tackles for most of the season until the last two games, was missing his top tight end and pro-bowl center for multiple games, and generally has far less talent at WR than Manning. So if you're going to ding him for what he has(defense, run game), you'd better credit him for what he doesn't have. There's no way they're 11-1, nor would they be the odds-on favorite for playoff hfa without him, and that right there will have as much impact as who makes the Super Bowl from the NFC than anything.

 

 

Or we can just credit them for what they've done thus far.

 

Wilson Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost 2013 Seattle Seahawks 12 12 198 305 64.9 2,672 8.8 22 6 30 189 108.5 80 456 5.7 1 8

5

 

Manning Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost 2013 Denver Broncos 12 12 327 480 68.1 4,125 8.6 41 9 15 96 115.3 29 -30 -1.0 1 10 6

 

Wilson has a very bright looking future. He has the arm, accuracy, and leadership qualities you want in a QB, but he does not have Manning's acumen to run an offense yet as the stats show.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

 

 

Yup, he has perhaps the best defense in the league and Marshawn Lynch. But he also lost his WR1 for the season, was without his two starting tackles for most of the season until the last two games, was missing his top tight end and pro-bowl center for multiple games, and generally has far less talent at WR than Manning. So if you're going to ding him for what he has(defense, run game), you'd better credit him for what he doesn't have. There's no way they're 11-1, nor would they be the odds-on favorite for playoff hfa without him, and that right there will have as much impact as who makes the Super Bowl from the NFC than anything.

 

I think it could be argued that there's a lot of QB's that could take that team to that record.

 

And for the record...I like him a lot. But IMHO, there's no way he's in the running for league MVP

[SecondString]

It doesn't matter what you think. They will give it to Manning even if he didn't play another down this season.

 

 

This ^ ^ ^

 

And I would vote for Tom Brady. His stats aren't there this year and he has no chance to win it. But to have that team at 9-3 with his lack of weapons this year, Gronk out, Hernandez gone, Welker gone, Amendola out most of the year, no significant WR threats, and the 20th ranked defense overall?? Not bad. Talk about a team dependent on one player...total collapse without him.

[darin3]

This ^ ^ ^

 

And I would vote for Tom Brady. His stats aren't there this year and he has no chance to win it. But to have that team at 9-3 with his lack of weapons this year, Gronk out, Hernandez gone, Welker gone, Amendola out most of the year, no significant WR threats, and the 20th ranked defense overall?? Not bad. Talk about a team dependent on one player...total collapse without him.

 

 

I would agree Brady should be in the discussion.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

 

 

This ^ ^ ^

 

And I would vote for Tom Brady. His stats aren't there this year and he has no chance to win it. But to have that team at 9-3 with his lack of weapons this year, Gronk out, Hernandez gone, Welker gone, Amendola out most of the year, no significant WR threats, and the 20th ranked defense overall?? Not bad. Talk about a team dependent on one player...total collapse without him.

 

good pt

[Tripleshot]

Wilson has a very bright looking future. He has the arm, accuracy, and leadership qualities you want in a QB, but he does not have Manning's acumen to run an offense yet as the stats show.

 

 

Pure stats don't tell the whole story. He has just as much acumen to run an offense, it's just that Seattle's offense is not Manning's offense. He's solely responsible for making Seattle's offense work, if you've seen any Seahawk games at all. And it works damn well, as they're second in the NFL in points scored. He's frequently compared to Manning for how cerebral he is and how well he prepares in the film room. I agree Manning has this all sewn up. He puts up monster stats and wins MVPs, just not Super Bowls. And I agree that Brady should probably be in the running as well, but it's still Manning's MVP.

 

If you want to make such a big case about stats, let's extrapolate Wilson's stats assuming he throws as many passes as Manning has this season:

 

Based on the same number of attempts as Manning, Wilson would have 4205 yards to Manning's 4125, 35 TDs to Manning's 41, 9 INTS to Manning's 9, and a 108.5 passer rating to Manning's 115.3. Now, we all know Seattle is never going to throw the ball that many times and production is never guaranteed based on more attempts, but you can't argue that while his totals are not as prolific as Manning's, his effectiveness certainly is. Saying he doesn't have the acumen to run an offense is ludicrous.

[Def.]

Pure stats don't tell the whole story. He has just as much acumen to run an offense, it's just that Seattle's offense is not Manning's offense. He's solely responsible for making Seattle's offense work, if you've seen any Seahawk games at all. And it works damn well, as they're second in the NFL in points scored. He's frequently compared to Manning for how cerebral he is and how well he prepares in the film room. I agree Manning has this all sewn up. He puts up monster stats and wins MVPs, just not Super Bowls. And I agree that Brady should probably be in the running as well, but it's still Manning's MVP.

 

If you want to make such a big case about stats, let's extrapolate Wilson's stats assuming he throws as many passes as Manning has this season:

 

Based on the same number of attempts as Manning, Wilson would have 4205 yards to Manning's 4125, 35 TDs to Manning's 41, 9 INTS to Manning's 9, and a 108.5 passer rating to Manning's 115.3. Now, we all know Seattle is never going to throw the ball that many times and production is never guaranteed based on more attempts, but you can't argue that while his totals are not as prolific as Manning's, his effectiveness certainly is. Saying he doesn't have the acumen to run an offense is ludicrous.

 

 

Unfortunately that is not what I said. I said he does not have the same level of acumen that Manning does yet. And that is not surprising as he is only in his 2nd year.

 

If you perceive that he is on the same level as Manning so be it. But based off the individual and team stats for the offenses, that seems a bit ludicrous. Especially when Manning is the singular focal point of the team, where as Wilson shares the focus with Lynch and that top 3 defense.

[bud29]

Saw this on ESPN today: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10080600/russell-wilson-not-peyton-manning-year-nfl-most-valuable-player

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

Saw this on ESPN today: http://espn.go.com/n...valuable-player

 

 

Sorry but in Seattle the coach deserves MVP not the QB

In Denver the are one in the same

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BA Baracus]

Saw this on ESPN today: http://espn.go.com/n...valuable-player

 

 

So apparently you need a facebook account in order to comment on ESPN now. One more reason to hate ESPN.

[Def.]

Saw this on ESPN today: http://espn.go.com/n...valuable-player

 

 

ESPN writing at its finest, he should win because: He has "it." Love how they always use that awesomely vague phrase in every football broadcast, radio show, and article.

[stevegrab]

So apparently you need a facebook account in order to comment on ESPN now. One more reason to hate ESPN.

 

They are not the only ones, seems to be a growing trend and another reason I hate FB. The powers that be just don't get that not everybody is or wants to be on FB. If you're not some people treat you like an outcast.

ESPN writing at its finest, he should win because: He has "it." Love how they always use that awesomely vague phrase in every football broadcast, radio show, and article.

 

And don't forget "his teammates love him". He's not the focal point of the offense, but deserves credit for them being undefeated at home.

 

Yes he runs more than Peyton. Yes he is good and could be an MVP some day. But not now, he is not even in the same class as Peyton. I bet he gets 1 vote for every 10 of Peyton.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Romo has a better completion %, has thrown for more yards and td's than Wilson, has fewer turnovers and has a team with one of the worst statiscal defenses ever a cpl games over .500 . Maybe we should give it to him.

 

Wilson for MVP is laughable

[darin3]

Romo has a better completion %, has thrown for more yards and td's than Wilson, has fewer turnovers and has a team with one of the worst statiscal defenses ever a cpl games over .500 . Maybe we should give it to him.

 

Wilson for MVP is laughable

 

Uh, what are their respective records again?

[HowboutthemCowboys]

doesn't matter there's more than a few QBs that could win in Seattle right now IMO. and for the record I wasn't touting Romo for MVP by any means, but allow me to ask you a question..

 

If Romo played for Seattle and Wilson played for Dallas, what do you think the records would be?

[keggerz]

Historic

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

doesn't matter there's more than a few QBs that could win in Seattle right now IMO. and for the record I wasn't touting Romo for MVP by any means, but allow me to ask you a question..

 

If Romo played for Seattle and Wilson played for Dallas, what do you think the records would be?

 

 

if they switched Coaches too Dallas would be undefeated !!!!!!!!!!!

[darin3]

doesn't matter there's more than a few QBs that could win in Seattle right now IMO. and for the record I wasn't touting Romo for MVP by any means, but allow me to ask you a question..

 

If Romo played for Seattle and Wilson played for Dallas, what do you think the records would be?

 

 

Thing is, Romo doesn't play for Seattle and Wilson does. And has led them to a ridiculous record while putting up excellent stats.

[SecondString]

if they switched Coaches owners too Dallas would be undefeated !!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Fixed.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

 

 

Thing is, Romo doesn't play for Seattle and Wilson does. And has led them to a ridiculous record while putting up excellent stats.

 

64% for 2672 and 22 through 12 games while turning the ball over 11 times. Excellent D? You're fishin right? Edited December 5, 2013 by HowboutthemCowboys

[keggerz]

Here are some rushing, passing and miscellaneous stats:

 

Rushes/game

Seattle 33.00

Denver 30.92

Difference: +2.08 (+6.7%) Sea

 

Rush YPC

Seattle 4.4

Denver 3.9

Difference 0.5 (+12.8%) Sea

 

Rush Yards/game

Seattle 146.8

Denver 121.9

Difference: 24.9 (+20.4%) Sea

 

Rushing TDs

Seattle 11

Denver 14

Difference +3 (+27.3%) Den

 

Rushing 1st Downs/game

Seattle 8

Denver 7

Difference +1 (+14.3%)Sea

 

Pass Attempts/Game

Seattle 26.3

Denver 40.2

Difference +13.9 (+52.9%) Den

 

Pass Completions/Game

Seattle 17.2

Denver 27.4

Difference +10.2 (+59.3%) Den

 

Pass Yards/Game

Seattle 218.2

Denver 336.6

Difference +118.4 (+54.3%) Den

 

Pass TDs(per game)

Seattle 23 (1.9)

Denver 41 (3.4)

Difference +1.5 (+78.3%) Den

 

Passing 1st Downs/Game

Seattle 10.33

Denver 17.75

Difference +7.42 (+71.8%) Den

 

Sacks Taken

Seattle 30

Denver 15

Difference +15 (+100%) Sea

 

Points/Game

Seattle 28.3

Denver 38.7

Difference +10.4 (+36.7%) Den

 

Points/Play

Seattle 0.46

Denver 0.53

Difference +0.07 (+15.2%) Den

 

=====================

 

 

 

Difference: +2.08 (+6.7%) Sea

Difference 0.5 (+12.8%) Sea

Difference: 24.9 (+20.4%) Sea

Difference +1 (+14.3%)Sea

Difference +15 (+100% this one's a bad #) Sea

 

 

Difference +3 (+27.3%) Den

Difference +13.9 (+52.9%) Den

Difference +10.2 (+59.3%) Den

Difference +118.4 (+54.3%) Den

Difference +1.5 (+78.3%) Den

Difference +7.42 (+71.8%) Den

Difference +10.4 (+36.7%) Den

Difference +0.07 (+15.2%) Den

Edited December 6, 2013 by keggerz

[Tripleshot]

If Romo were the QB of the Seahawks this year he'd be on IR or dead because of all the o-line injuries in Seattle this season. For that matter, most of the QBs you guys think could guide Seattle to the same record this year would be too. I've come to the conclusion that most of you haven't seen more than a couple of Seahawk games this year, because if you had, you'd realize he IS the focal point of everything the Seahawks do on offense because of his decision making. This is why he's been so much better than his contemporaries this year. He's smarter, prepares better, and is cooler in tight games. While Kaep and RGIII are struggling because opposing defenses have adjusted to them, Wilson had already adjusted to the other teams' adjustments. Take something away from him, and he'll just beat you in other ways. Wilson lacks Peyton's totals, but he has Peyton's mind, work ethic, and desire for excellence. Time will prove this to all outside of Seattle, as those of us in Seattle already know this. So keep pointing to all of Peyton's gawdy totals, because they are truly historic as Kegger says, but Wilson is damn near as efficient as Peyton in every category not based on sheer volume(QB rating, ypa, etc.). I'm fine with Peyton as MVP. Wilson will have a different trophy come February.