Sam Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I would be in the championship game next week if an owner who was out of the playoffs would have submitted his line-up week 13. He was playing the guy I was tied with for the division lead. He had Brady on his bench as well as his starting RB and WR. I would have had the first rd bye. I ended up losing last week by 2.4 pts (2nd highest scorer) and would have won this week (highest scorer). I'm wondering how others handle this within thier league. In one league I'm in it's a $10 fine for not submitting a lineup. IMO that's not enough. This guy cost me at least $200 (2nd place) and possibly $600 - $700 for 1st. I would have had a really good shot at winning it all as I have a solid team and was highest total pts for the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 We had to boot a guy for failing to set lineups a few year back. We got a much better owner to take over his team. It was 100% the right call. I am just glad that our commish had the stones to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogansghost Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I would be in the championship game next week if an owner who was out of the playoffs would have submitted his line-up week 13. He was playing the guy I was tied with for the division lead. He had Brady on his bench as well as his starting RB and WR. I would have had the first rd bye. I ended up losing last week by 2.4 pts (2nd highest scorer) and would have won this week (highest scorer). I'm wondering how others handle this within thier league. In one league I'm in it's a $10 fine for not submitting a lineup. IMO that's not enough. This guy cost me at least $200 (2nd place) and possibly $600 - $700 for 1st. I would have had a really good shot at winning it all as I have a solid team and was highest total pts for the year. That plain sucks - sorry to hear it. Was there a reason the guy didn't submit his lineup? In all of the leagues I'm in there's no set rules - but it's never been an issue because other owners are pretty active about reminding and shaming people into staying on top of it. In most of these leagues, people still like to play spoiler, so we haven't dealt with someone not submitting a complete lineup on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 We had to boot a guy for failing to set lineups a few year back. We got a much better owner to take over his team. It was 100% the right call. I am just glad that our commish had the stones to do it. We did the same and now have our league set up to use the week prior line-up automatically , in case there is a player on bye our commish adjust the line -up putting in MFL's highest ranked player at that position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'd start with asking that owner (or have the commish do it) why didn't they set their line-up. Then go from there. Have a league discussion about it, to see whether other owners think there should be something in the rules about it, punishment for incomplete line-up etc. We had something similar happen in our league back around week 9. I was battling for the division lead, the leader won his game but his opponent had some players on bye and other non regular starters he failed to swap. He explained that he just forgot, was going to do it after church. Got home with the family, they decided to go out to brunch with the in-laws and it slipped his mind. This team was near the bottom of the league and on the edge of the last playoff spot. In the end I did win the division. And this owner did just barely make the playoffs at 6-7. They won the first week, beat the top team in the league this week and are now in the title game. We (my co-commish and I) will take this as a teaching opportunity and pound it home for all owners to try their hardest every week. (We hoped a weekly high score money prize would overcome those, but some years only a few teams seem to win those with dominant teams.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Have a tanking/apathy rule in my local dynasty, because this is much more of an issue when teams could tank for draft-position. However, we do still need to remedy it with more than just "anyone who doesn't set their lineup for more than one week will be replaced". Probably will vote in the offseason to do something like what MOBD suggested above, and put in their highest projected players per MFL during the season until we find a replacement. I should add that it is of course understood that if you do something like blatantly start Chad Henne over Drew Brees, you won't be around to reap the benefits. Whole different issue there. There are legal ways to rebuild while still starting your best available players. But the reason you get a one week free pass is that people do get busy... The problem with that however, is I've noticed a few teams who may be taking advantage of their one week free pass, but it seems excessive to do more than warn them the first time. Life gets in the way sometimes. But I think how much you need to do depends on how mature your leaguemates are. It should be sufficient in many cases to explain that not setting your lineup can greatly affect other teams who are still in it, and that it may be you one day who gets screwed because someone else decided to stop caring. It is not tough to take 5 minutes a week and fulfill your 13+ week obligation to the league. If it's only a minority who are the problem, then I'd use this as a learning experience, and not invite them back if they don't care enough to play out the season. It's very difficult to dictate their behavior in a redraft other than to not include them. Edited December 17, 2013 by delusions of grandeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondString Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 There's nothing right about that, and I believe something would have to be done. Somebody needs to ask the negligent/absentee owner how he would feel in your shoes. And if nothing is done about it, what's to prevent collusion, if the team you were playing offered to split the prize money with your opponent, what's to keep him from doing this? Whether it's collusion or negligence, it's wrong. We did have a rule in our league that if an owner didn't post a full roster, then the Commish would intervene and post a line-up for him. Well, a situation came up where the Commish had to do so for a negligent owner, and that caused someone to lose to the negligent owner. A bunch of owners got heartburn about that, so the league then voted that the Commish would not intervene and change rosters under any circumstances. Which makes possible situations like the OP just laid out. So there is no perfect solution, if an owner is negligent, somebody's gonna be pissed no matter how you do it. The only way to avoid this is to have active, conscientious owners who will do the right thing and post competitive line-ups every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 There's nothing right about that, and I believe something would have to be done. Somebody needs to ask the negligent/absentee owner how he would feel in your shoes. And if nothing is done about it, what's to prevent collusion, if the team you were playing offered to split the prize money with your opponent, what's to keep him from doing this? Whether it's collusion or negligence, it's wrong. We did have a rule in our league that if an owner didn't post a full roster, then the Commish would intervene and post a line-up for him. Well, a situation came up where the Commish had to do so for a negligent owner, and that caused someone to lose to the negligent owner. A bunch of owners got heartburn about that, so the league then voted that the Commish would not intervene and change rosters under any circumstances. Which makes possible situations like the OP just laid out. So there is no perfect solution, if an owner is negligent, somebody's gonna be pissed no matter how you do it. The only way to avoid this is to have active, conscientious owners who will do the right thing and post competitive line-ups every week. Right, a commish should NEVER set someone else's lineup based on his own opinion. That opens up a huge can of worms like you saw. However, I see very few problems with it being set according to rankings/projections you've all agreed to before hand. Only issue there is it would probably be preferable for the commish to be on-call (or alerted by a league member) around 1 O' clock, so it isn't retroactive, which would of course probably piss someone off even if it was within the rules if it affected their game after the fact. So yeah, your best option is still to play with good active owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 The one question I posed to the owner who forget to set his line-up is why wait unitl Sunday morning every week. Look at your line-up before TNF, or on Friday/Saturday and make the no brainer changes (players on or coming off bye, players who are out, etc.) That way you at least cover your holes, whether you actually have the best possible player going or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondString Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Right, a commish should NEVER set someone else's lineup based on his own opinion. That opens up a huge can of worms like you saw. However, I see very few problems with it being set according to rankings/projections you've all agreed to before hand. Only issue there is it would probably be preferable for the commish to be on-call (or alerted by a league member) around 1 O' clock, so it isn't retroactive, which would of course probably piss someone off even if it was within the rules if it affected their game after the fact. So yeah, your best option is still to play with good active owners. Yeah, we had strict guidelines about how the Commish would post for the negligent owner, i.e. highest ranked player available from ww, highest ranked on bench per ESPN projections, etc. Didn't matter, there was a contingent of owners that banded together and voted this out once one of them lost to a negligent owner. That was last year. We talked about it for 20-25 minutes at our draft, haven't had any problems this year. But it's going to come up in a lot of leagues, and unfortunately it is most likely to happen near the playoffs, when games matter the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 This guy did email me the following Monday saying he must have forgot to hit the submit button. It doesn't hold water with me. I double and triple check my line-ups before game-time. I like the idea of using the week prior line-up or some variation of that. Something needs to be done though. No one should have to miss out on the championship game because of someone else's negligence. We'll discuss it and this guy is definetly going to know that if he (or anyone) does it again, they are out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 This guy did email me the following Monday saying he must have forgot to hit the submit button. It doesn't hold water with me. I double and triple check my line-ups before game-time. I like the idea of using the week prior line-up or some variation of that. Something needs to be done though. No one should have to miss out on the championship game because of someone else's negligence. We'll discuss it and this guy is definetly going to know that if he (or anyone) does it again, they are out. Your league site doesn't already just use the prior week's lineup if they don't submit a new one? I thought they all did in this day and age. Why does it not hold water that he forgot to hit submit? I've accidentally done that in leagues where I'm still in the playoff hunt, and if I'm out, I'm even more unlikely to double-check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Your league site doesn't already just use the prior week's lineup if they don't submit a new one? I thought they all did in this day and age. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 Your league site doesn't already just use the prior week's lineup if they don't submit a new one? I thought they all did in this day and age. Why does it not hold water that he forgot to hit submit? I've accidentally done that in leagues where I'm still in the playoff hunt, and if I'm out, I'm even more unlikely to double-check. It doesn't hold water with me because there are ways to verify that you clicked the submit button. If he was in there to update his line-up, why not take an additional 2 seconds to make sure you have the correct line-up in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It doesn't hold water with me because there are ways to verify that you clicked the submit button. If he was in there to update his line-up, why not take an additional 2 seconds to make sure you have the correct line-up in. I'm sorry we're not all always as perfect and/or have the time to double-check, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not telling the truth. I don't know about you or him, but lately I just haven't had the time to tinker with my lineups until my day off on Sunday (any time during the week is usually devoted to whether there's someone I need to pick up or not), and even then stuff can end up popping up where I don't even have the time then to do more than set my lineups quickly. If you have a job or kids, it's not necessarily a BS excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'm not saying he's not telling the truth. I'm saying if he had time to go in and "set" his line-up, why not double check it just to make sure? And it is a bullhonda excuse IMO. If you don't have time to set and check your line-up quick Sunday morning then don't join the league...especially when there's a significant amount of $ on the line. I didn't post this to get into a pissing match about why he did or didn't click the submit button. I was curious as to what others do to avoid this so we can implement something going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Your league site doesn't already just use the prior week's lineup if they don't submit a new one? I thought they all did in this day and age. Why does it not hold water that he forgot to hit submit? I've accidentally done that in leagues where I'm still in the playoff hunt, and if I'm out, I'm even more unlikely to double-check. Agree on both counts. One year I was reviewing a trade offer late at night. I entered in the comment "No way, not even close to fair, lets try something else later." And then I clicked the Accept button by accident. I immediately contacted the commish and other owner explaining. The trade was tossed out (the comment made it clear I was not accepting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) I'm not saying he's not telling the truth. I'm saying if he had time to go in and "set" his line-up, why not double check it just to make sure? And it is a bullhonda excuse IMO. If you don't have time to set and check your line-up quick Sunday morning then don't join the league...especially when there's a significant amount of $ on the line. I didn't post this to get into a pissing match about why he did or didn't click the submit button. I was curious as to what others do to avoid this so we can implement something going forward. I can agree with the bolded, and if you'll notice I did post what my league does. I'm not posting this to get into a pissing match, and I'm not necessarily saying the guy is telling the truth (you have to at least wonder about collusion when an owner doesn't submit a lineup in the last week where it affects playoff teams). But my point is that sometimes real-life gets in the way, which is why my league allows one free pass a year. If he submitted a lineup all other 12 weeks, then that's not enough to assume a pattern of apathy or tanking, IMO. It could jsut as easily be a mistake as it could be something nefarious, but absent other evidence, I don't see any reason to automatically assume it's BS. Edited December 17, 2013 by delusions of grandeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 The guy that did this is a good guy. I don't think he purposely didn't submit his lineup. That's not the issue really. I understand everyone makes mistakes or forgets or whatever. As I said, I would like to implement something so that if someone doesn't submit a line-up for whatever reason it can be "fixed" somehow so as not to effect any playoff implemications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Just to be clear, this owner had no line-up, zero active players? All you said was he had Brady on the bench as well as his starting RB & WR. I agree with a system that would use the last weeks line-up, in fact I'd prefer league management site just do that. Also ok with something like what others suggested where some ranking are used to select the best line-up. However, if he simply had better players on his bench than in his line-up, I wouldn't be in favor of messing with that. You don't want to start deciding who is the best line-up for each team. (Not that I think that is what you're looking to do, but wanted to make sure we covered that angle.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I agree with a system that would use the last weeks line-up, in fact I'd prefer league management site just do that. HATE when leagues are set up this way. Had Amendola get hurt, following week he played on a Thursday night. I didn't bother to set my lineup for the Thursday game because I knew he was hurt and I planned to start someone else on sunday. Took a goose egg for his spot that wk and lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 HATE when leagues are set up this way. Had Amendola get hurt, following week he played on a Thursday night. I didn't bother to set my lineup for the Thursday game because I knew he was hurt and I planned to start someone else on sunday. Took a goose egg for his spot that wk and lost Did you not know the league/site worked that way? Thing is other than byes there are plenty of weeks I just roll with the same line-up. I don't want to have to go in each week and select each player. I only play in one league on CBS and the site has always worked that way. I guess it may just depend on what you're used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Did you not know the league/site worked that way? correct. League is run on MFL I'd much rather take the 7 seconds it takes to set my lineup every wk myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'd much rather take the 7 seconds it takes to set my lineup every Wednesday or Thursday morning myself Fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Fixed Truth, both ways have their shortcomings if you don't bother to at least set a quick preliminary lineup before the Thursday game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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