Adonis2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 me and a few friends were talking about this, obviously a good owner tries to stay competitive all season even when eliminated, but i suggested if you are in traditional leagues with standard playoff formats its the right thing to do to let the waivers clear before you get your lineup set for the following week.,,,,let the teams playing for the prizes get in their claims....my league does a weekly high score prize so this is an example of a league where i wouldnt apply this courtesy in. anyone care to offer their opinion on the matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) If you still have something to play for, whether that be a reward or simply pride, then no, I don't think it's bad form. This is also why I disagree that owners eliminated out of the playoff race shouldn't be allowed to make moves (if it's a really serious cut-throat league, then I could see making a rule against them making moves, but in leagues where there are friendly rivalries, then those owners have paid for the right to do whatever they can to win). Just because you're eliminated from contention for the big prize, doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to end your season on a high note by winning. No one likes to lose or be the worst. Though another reason that a league might not want eliminated teams to make moves is that it can open the door for collusion, if these teams help out a contender with blocking moves to keep them away from an opponent. So I guess that comes down to how much you trust your leaguemates and what your priorities are. But absent a rule against it, I don't think it's bad form at all. You pay your league fee, and you've earned the right to try to win as many games as you can. Edited December 18, 2013 by delusions of grandeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MothAudio Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 That's how I approach it if I'm out of the playoffs. The easiest solution is just to lock teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 That's how I approach it if I'm out of the playoffs. The easiest solution is just to lock teams. Out of contention for (not able to make) the playoffs is different from not being active during the playoffs. If we're still playing regular season, and I"m 1-10 and cannot make the playoffs, why should I be blocked from waivers, allowing me to field my best team and possible beating somebody trying to make the playoffs (or win some weekly prize, or just to play for pride and not be a one win team). Once playoffs start, agree teams not playing cannot sign new players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpayers Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Out of contention for (not able to make) the playoffs is different from not being active during the playoffs. If we're still playing regular season, and I"m 1-10 and cannot make the playoffs, why should I be blocked from waivers, allowing me to field my best team and possible beating somebody trying to make the playoffs (or win some weekly prize, or just to play for pride and not be a one win team). Once playoffs start, agree teams not playing cannot sign new players. This is fundamental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 This is fundamental. Only if it's included in the rules...and fwiw, in a dynasty league there is no reason whatsoever that if waivers are open to playoff teams that they shouldn't be open to all teams...even if there isn't a consolation bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Only if it's included in the rules...and fwiw, in a dynasty league there is no reason whatsoever that if waivers are open to playoff teams that they shouldn't be open to all teams...even if there isn't a consolation bracket. Obviously agree about dynasty leagues, but I disagree, "only if it's in the rules". (In more serious leagues, yes, EVERYTHING should be spelled out, but I don't think it's right to apply universal logic to normal friendly leagues that don't have 10 page consititutions) If a team in redraft is not playing for anything, season over, no more games, and I find that they're still making waiver moves, then I don't care how the commish set it up or if it was overlooked earlier. It needs to be reversed, and waivers need to be locked. No good can come from allowing a team to make waiver moves when their team isn't playing anymore. It only opens up nefarious possibilities, and goes against the principle that teams are supposed to make moves to improve their team's chances to win. What possible justification can you make for them making moves for a team that is literally not playing anymore? Edited December 18, 2013 by delusions of grandeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Obviously agree about dynasty leagues, but I disagree, "only if it's in the rules". (In more serious leagues, yes, EVERYTHING should be spelled out, but I don't think it's right to apply universal logic to normal friendly leagues that don't have 10 page consititutions) If a team in redraft is not playing for anything, season over, no more games, and I find that they're still making waiver moves, then I don't care how the commish set it up or if it was overlooked earlier. It needs to be reversed, and waivers need to be locked. No good can come from allowing a team to make waiver moves when their team isn't playing anymore. It only opens up nefarious possibilities, and goes against the principle that teams are supposed to make moves to improve their team's chances to win. What possible justification can you make for them making moves for a team that is literally not playing anymore? I agree with that, but the OP said there was a consolation game/bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) I agree with that, but the OP said there was a consolation game/bracket. Ah gotcha. Now let me take a page out of the socratic method handbook, and ask the OP: If consolation games are "meaningless", then why would you play them? If your league thinks it's meaningless, then don't have the game. If you have a game, then it's not meaningless, and thus, the people involved can decide the degree it means to them, and whether that means making a move to improve their team or not. /thread Edited December 18, 2013 by delusions of grandeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourdeau Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 A few years back we added a prize to the consolation bracket making it meaningful. The winner of the Consolation Bracket gets the first round pick of next years draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MothAudio Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Yes, I meant out of the playoffs and agree, this should be known beforehand / written into your league rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhandsean Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Yes it is bad form but definitely needs to be a rule set forth before the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricrelish Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Bad form completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) we have a rule that basically states, if yer not in the money hunt, yer not making moves. Edit: We're redraft Edited December 18, 2013 by loaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 In Dynasty .......... If its locked for one its locked for all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana is da Man Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It should be stated at the beginning of the season that those teams that do not make the playoffs for the big prize will be locked on the Tuesday morning after the week 13 monday night game. That's how we do it in my league. And once you lose in the playoffs, your roster is locked and you cannot make picksups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Interesting - is not putting forth your best effort essentially collusion? We see constant bitching about teams not setting their lineups once they are eliminated, as them not putting forth their best effort could effect the playoffs as they become essentially a bye, yet here many of you are arguing the opposite and saying that they should not put forth their best effort and try to field the best team that they can. If we are to say that it is the duty of an owner to try and submit their best lineup each week, even after being eliminated from playoff contention, for the integrity of the league, then it follows that in trying to accomplish this, they absolutely should be trying to field the best roster possible to accomplish this, and that means making waiver moves to improve their team to accomplish the goal of starting the best lineup possible. I guess the "put forth your best effort" and "let owner's manage their own teams" only applies when it suits our purposes. I've got to admit I was extremely shocked by the responses in this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Only if it's included in the rules...and fwiw, in a dynasty league there is no reason whatsoever that if waivers are open to playoff teams that they shouldn't be open to all teams...even if there isn't a consolation bracket. I know I've explained our setup before, but we are a keeper league (5 kept, we start 9) once the playoffs start our rosters for the following season are essentially locked. No team can add a player that will be on their roster the following year. Teams in the playoffs can add players (extra roster spots are added, players are not dropped) if they need them, when they are done with playoffs those players are dropped. This way nobody has an unfair advantage. If we left waivers open for everybody the playoff teams that might really need a player for the playoffs would or could be getting blocked by teams out of the playoffs (who would have higher waiver priority) who want players for next year, or just to screw with the other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 BC, I think you've misunderstood some of the posts. I think most people are talking about moves during the playoffs, made by teams NOT in the playoffs. Not teams during the regular season being prohibited from making moves just because they cannot make the playoffs. I agree that would be a bad idea, if you're two QBs are injured and you could knock another team out of the playoffs you should be able to make a move, regardless of your ability to qualify for the playoffs. You game has meaning, so you should be trying to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 BC, I think you've misunderstood some of the posts. I think most people are talking about moves during the playoffs, made by teams NOT in the playoffs. Not teams during the regular season being prohibited from making moves just because they cannot make the playoffs. I agree that would be a bad idea, if you're two QBs are injured and you could knock another team out of the playoffs you should be able to make a move, regardless of your ability to qualify for the playoffs. You game has meaning, so you should be trying to win. You may be right about misinterpreting some of the posts. I believe that if you have a scheduled game, you should be able to do whatever is needed to provide for the best possible lineup. It does not matter if this is in the regular season, playoffs, toilet bowl or anything else. If I am scheduled to play an opponent, if there is a weekly prize on the line, a year long points total prize or anything else that provides am impetus to submit a lineup, I should be allowed to do anything that any other team is allowed to do to provide the best possible lineup. To your point, I would agree that a team not in the playoffs and with no scheduled game should be locked from making moves (except in keeper/dynasty leagues, but that has been discussed before). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Pretty simple. If there's something to play for, you should be able to make moves. If that means you're playing in your consolation bracket, and the winner gets $20, so be it. If it's just for "pride", on the other hand, I think it's the commish's call. Personally, I'm not sure how much "pride" there can be, in winning a consolation prize. So, for my leagues, if there's no $$ involved, owners shouldn't be making moves that affect the teams who ARE playing for money. Dynasty/keeper leagues are a different game completely... If playoff teams can potentially acquire players that they would be able to keep for next year, non-playoff teams should be as well. Some leagues have rules that limit how late in the season you can acquire a player, and still keep them (I'm in one league where the trade deadline is also used for this purpose). So, teams not in the playoffs have no waivers ability (during the playoffs) because acquiring a player couldn't help them in any way. As a general rule, I think it's best to have everything written in the rules. If you have a consolation bracket, simply put a rule in place that defines who can/can't make waivers moves. On the other hand, if nothing is at stake, I don't really see the point of having a consolation bracket, frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I don't even know what purpose the Consolation games serve? If yer not playing for the Trophy, why are you still playing? Unless, your league pays out the top 6 "winners" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I don't even know what purpose the Consolation games serve? If yer not playing for the Trophy, why are you still playing? Unless, your league pays out the top 6 "winners" Exactly. I get playing for pride, but how much pride can the "7th best loser" really have? It's one thing if there is cash for the consolation bracket. Or, in some leagues, the consolation bracket might have some implication on the following season (draft order for dynasty/keeper leagues, for example). But, if neither of those apply, the losers should just move on to next season, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Exactly. I get playing for pride, but how much pride can the "7th best loser" really have? It's one thing if there is cash for the consolation bracket. Or, in some leagues, the consolation bracket might have some implication on the following season (draft order for dynasty/keeper leagues, for example). But, if neither of those apply, the losers should just move on to next season, IMO. ehhh...I'm playing for the toilet bowl title in a BOTH league this weekend..yeah, it means nothing prize wise but what's it hurt? Gave me another few weeks to play FF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 ehhh...I'm playing for the toilet bowl title in a BOTH league this weekend..yeah, it means nothing prize wise but what's it hurt? Gave me another few weeks to play FF Fair enough, and to each his own. All I'm saying is that someone in that position shouldn't be able to acquire players that someone playing for money might have a chance at (at least that's my opinion). If people enjoy playing consolation matches (for bragging rights, or whatever), good for them. I just don't think it should interfere with the actual playoffs, and if the rules allow it to do so, that's kind of messed up. Of course, I'm also in a ton (too many) of leagues (not trying to sound like Muto). If I was in less leagues, I'd probably be more inclined to keep playing in whatever formats I could, even if it was just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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