sausagekingchi Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Many of the vet posters here know more than you give them credit for. These are not your average NFL fans or fantasy geeks. For example keggerz really knows his stuff and can break down film and schemes, have seen him do this before in some of the discussions. I agree with your basic point, that coaches (and other team staff) really are more qualified to make these decisions than the average fan. I get that many Bears fans think Cutler cannot win them a SB, or that they overpaid, or even that McCown was just as good. Apparently the expert being paid piles of money to make the decisions does not. Its like on another forum, some guy is questioning how is it that 4 teams are interviewing Jay Gruden for a HC job, because he thinks Gruden is bad and not even a capable OC. Well I'd say the words of 4 other teams tell a different tale than his opinion. I'm curious, do you work in the business, break down tape for a team or something. Not questioning your information, just seems that they way you explain it that you have first hand working knowledge of how teams evaluate players using game tape. I come from a football family. I played football myself for 13 years up through college. It paid for my education because no one was offering up money solely for what was between my ears. I knew my playing days were pretty much over long before college ended so I had no aspirations of playing in the NFL (seeing that I was at the bottom of the depth chart in college gave me the hint I was looking for). So I spent a lot of time during the 4 years of college studying game film and breaking it down along with coaches and helping teammates break things down. I knew I wasn't going to be able to play it so I figured the next best thing was to coach it. So during that time I was trying to prepare myself for going into a coaching career as my major was something I could turn into working for a school while coaching football. Long story short I ended up getting an opportunity in another profession I could not pass up and left my football life in the past. That being said I have two other members of my family who coach football at a high level (they respect my opinion and ideas on the game enough to ask my advice from time to time on players they are scouting and have even had me work with some kids on technique) and was friends with more than a few guys who actually played in the NFL. Those guys are now all retired and out of the game, but their insight into how NFL teams operate was interesting to say the least. I do apologize to anyone if I come off like a know it all when it comes to talking football. I'm pretty new to this site/forum, so I'm pleading ignorant! I realize there may be people here with a far more extensive/impressive football background than myself and could probably teach me a thing or two. Edited January 8, 2014 by sausagekingchi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausagekingchi Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 fair enough on the 1st part, although Wilson Kap and maybe Cam are still going to get better IMO. When has Cutler excelled at the bolded? I think he excelled at the bolded line without question during most of his Bears career. Have you seen how poorly their record was without him? I think they were 6-2 one year with Cutler to start the season, he got injured and they missed the playoff's and ended up 8-8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Cutler has 20 Game Winning Drives and 16 4th quarter comebacks: http://www.pro-footb...player=CutlJa00 both rank in the top 10 among active QBs. FWIW, Drew Brees has played in 5 more seasons and has 34 GWDs. Extrapolated out Cutler would have 32.5 to Brees 34. 4th quarter comeback wise, Brees has 23 and extrapolated out Cutler would be at 26. Also, let me point out that I extrapolated out based on seasons played, not games played/season. Edited January 8, 2014 by keggerz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausagekingchi Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 First off you say stats shouldnt mean as much as winning but cutler hasn't carried a team since Vandy. Second you list guys who do put together game winning drives in the same category as cutler while implying that cutler is a winner and they arent. Third, since we can't say cutler wins games we can look at his stats and see they suck. 2013 jay cutler ~ Mike Glennon 2012 Jay Cutler ~ Christian Ponder 2011 Jay Cutler ~ Matt Moore/Kevin Kolb 2010 Jay Cutler ~ (<) Kyle Orton Do you see a pattern of mediocrity starting to form? He's carried the Bears the last few years. Just look at their record with him as a starter versus without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
half_hennessy Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) See if this link helps. It ref's the same article you spoke of I think: http://eedition.chic....&view=ZW50aXR5 That's the article I was talking about interesting that all those contracts included the cause thanks for the link Edited January 8, 2014 by half_hennessy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Cutler has 20 Game Winning Drives and 16 4th quarter comebacks: http://www.pro-footb...player=CutlJa00 both rank in the top 10 among active QBs. FWIW, Drew Brees has played in 5 more seasons and has 34 GWDs. Extrapolated out Cutler would have 32.5 to Brees 34. 4th quarter comeback wise, Brees has 23 and extrapolated out Cutler would be at 26. Also, let me point out that I extrapolated out based on seasons played, not games played/season. who's got the most the last 3 seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 He's carried the Bears the last few years. Just look at their record with him as a starter versus without. If you claim to know so much about football and really believe this nonsense, well then I honestly don't know what to say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnlava Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If you claim to know so much about football and really believe this nonsense, well then I honestly don't know what to say. OMG...this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud29 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If you claim to know so much about football and really believe this nonsense, well then I honestly don't know what to say. Took the words right out of my mouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) off the top of my head and in no particular order.. Luck Cam Rivers Romo Ben Ryan Wilson Kap Kaepernick isnt bettr than him, that's statistically provable and they're about a wash comparing their last two full season. If you extraploate Cutler to a full season in 2013 it's him by a pretty decent margin. Same goes for Wilson. The others on the list are primarily equals tho I'd give an edge to Ryan, Luck and ben perhaps. So, you're up to 7, with a bunch of QBs in the same wheel house. He is NOT in the bottom half of QBing in the league when its claimed there are 12-15 better than him. That is demonstrably asinine. Edited January 8, 2014 by Pope Flick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 That is demonstrably asinine. It's all good...enjoy having him QB your team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnlava Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's all good...enjoy having him QB your team no one is really fighting here...lol...to quote..."enjoy having him QB your team" ...We all have our problems...right HATC? I've got Rivers who EVERYONE hates and you have ROMO who EVERYONE hates and Flick has Cutler.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hey I'm curious , maybe Big John or one of you's that knows or has a few minutes to search Does this make Cutler the highest paid QB that played in 2013 for the next two years ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's all good...enjoy having him QB your team I have been. No real issues with him, he's tough as nails IMO and while he makes mistakes you're in no position to be very snarky about him with Romo on your squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud29 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If you extraploate Cutler to a full season in 2013 it's him by a pretty decent margin. You can't do that, a bears fan even says so: You can't simply extrapolate his numbers like that to say he would do this or that if he threw this many times because there are way too many variables to consider. This isn't math or science where that scenario could be controlled, it is football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hey I'm curious , maybe Big John or one of you's that knows or has a few minutes to search Does this make Cutler the highest paid QB that played in 2013 for the next two years ? Rodgers Flacco, Manning, Brees. Romo is at 18M/yr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You can't do that, a bears fan even says so: That's actually one thing Abe Froman gets right in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You can't do that, a bears fan even says so: Well, I can do what I want but I didn't bother because I didn't need to to make my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Rodgers Flacco, Manning, Brees. Romo is at 18M/yr Also Ryan, only second to Rodgers. These deals may seem like bargains compared to the next crop of QBs to get paid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Hey I'm curious , maybe Big John or one of you's that knows or has a few minutes to search Does this make Cutler the highest paid QB that played in 2013 for the next two years ? Slightly, yes, but that's misleading. Recall he got no signing bonus, where all the others did. Had he gotten $30 mil like the others, he's probably upwards of $10M less each season. Brees' first two years of his deal were at $3M and $9.75M, Ryan $2M and $9.5, and Flacco $1M, $6M, and $4M. $38,000,000 Jay Cutler at Quarterback $34,000,000 Peyton Manning at Quarterback $32,150,000 Eli Manning at Quarterback $30,500,000 Tony Romo at Quarterback $29,550,000 Philip Rivers at Quarterback $29,500,000 Drew Brees at Quarterback $27,000,000 Sam Bradford at Quarterback $23,700,000 Ben Roethlisberger at Quarterback $22,500,000 Matt Schaub at Quarterback $21,500,000 Mark Sanchez at Quarterback $21,000,000 Matt Ryan at Quarterback $18,000,000 Carson Palmer at Quarterback $10,000,000 Joe Flacco at Quarterback $6,100,000 Chase Daniel at Quarterback $5,804,545 Andrew Luck at Quarterback $5,579,795 Robert Griffin III at Quarterback Edited January 8, 2014 by flemingd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnlava Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Wow...large #'s indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Slightly, yes, but that's misleading. Recall he got no signing bonus, where all the others did. Had he gotten $30 mil like the others, he's probably upwards of $10M less each season. Brees' first two years of his deal were at $3M and $9.75M, Ryan $2M and $9.5, and Flacco $1M, $6M, and $4M. $38,000,000 Jay Cutler at Quarterback $34,000,000 Peyton Manning at Quarterback $32,150,000 Eli Manning at Quarterback $30,500,000 Tony Romo at Quarterback $29,550,000 Philip Rivers at Quarterback $29,500,000 Drew Brees at Quarterback $27,000,000 Sam Bradford at Quarterback $23,700,000 Ben Roethlisberger at Quarterback $22,500,000 Matt Schaub at Quarterback $21,500,000 Mark Sanchez at Quarterback $21,000,000 Matt Ryan at Quarterback $18,000,000 Carson Palmer at Quarterback $10,000,000 Joe Flacco at Quarterback $6,100,000 Chase Daniel at Quarterback $5,804,545 Andrew Luck at Quarterback $5,579,795 Robert Griffin III at Quarterback No Rodgers? Does he not have a contract for 2014 or 2015? Also are you saying BJ is wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Wow , Cutler to make 7 x what Luck will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 These deals may seem like bargains compared to the next crop of QBs to get paid. Agreed , that is why I wrote " That played in 2013 " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 No Rodgers? Does he not have a contract for 2014 or 2015? Still in the honeymoon phase of his deal - first three years were $4.5M (2013) then the next two are $.9M and $1M. 2015 shoots back up to $11M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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