SeductiveNun Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 All due respect, that's a crock of honda. It isn't the commish's league, it's the players' league. The commish's only job is to determine what issues players want to discuss and facilitate clear, respectful communication that stays on topic. It's up to the league itself to decide what kind of league it "should" be via vote. The commish can knock out infighting very easily - just tell the owner "quit bitching, write up a rule proposal, and I'll put it in front of the owners at the appropriate time. If they like it it's done, and if they don't like it, it's done." It's that simple. I commish my homer this way, and we don't have any drama like this - this from a bunch of D&D geeks that have been gaming together for 20+ years so yeah, we know how to split a hair and argue over it for 3 hours. Honestly, this is the first year we've ever had this kind of bickering back and forth over anything. I really have no idea why it's happening the way it is. And being a longstanding D&D geek myself, I have experienced several episodes of "rules lawyering" myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin_Akie Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 All due respect, that's a crock of honda. It isn't the commish's league, it's the players' league. The commish's only job is to determine what issues players want to discuss and facilitate clear, respectful communication that stays on topic. It's up to the league itself to decide what kind of league it "should" be via vote. The commish can knock out infighting very easily - just tell the owner "quit bitching, write up a rule proposal, and I'll put it in front of the owners at the appropriate time. If they like it it's done, and if they don't like it, it's done." It's that simple. I commish my homer this way, and we don't have any drama like this - this from a bunch of D&D geeks that have been gaming together for 20+ years so yeah, we know how to split a hair and argue over it for 3 hours. Completely agree with that, the rules are set by all and the commish's main job is just to apply them fairly to everyone. Even if they dont turn up to the party where new rules are suggested, I'm sure they could knock up an email explaining their position and why they want to change the draft (like above, we have an AGM as 10 of the 12 members are in the same city but we have 2 players over in the US who naturally can't attend). Then vote and everyone can live with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wubammer Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Agree with BC's comments on how to approach this. I like your draft format, but aren't all drafts truly random? Are we arguing who has the better randomness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeductiveNun Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Completely agree with that, the rules are set by all and the commish's main job is just to apply them fairly to everyone. Even if they dont turn up to the party where new rules are suggested, I'm sure they could knock up an email explaining their position and why they want to change the draft (like above, we have an AGM as 10 of the 12 members are in the same city but we have 2 players over in the US who naturally can't attend). Then vote and everyone can live with the results. Agree. And in the past this has been done and acceptable. Nobody proposed changing the draft this year when the time was coming up to propose rule changes at the party. The proposal was put forward a month ago - well beyond the cutoff time to propose new rules for the upcoming season. Just because you can't attend the party didn't mean you couldn't propose changes. When I was commish, I would take the proposals of the absentee owners and present them at the party, along with their reasoning for such proposed changes using their explanations they sent me. Wubammer - it does seem like a silly argument. Which version of randomness is more fair is basically the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wubammer Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Never intended to belittle the argument, a fascinating one in fact.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin_Akie Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Agree. And in the past this has been done and acceptable. Nobody proposed changing the draft this year when the time was coming up to propose rule changes at the party. The proposal was put forward a month ago - well beyond the cutoff time to propose new rules for the upcoming season. Just because you can't attend the party didn't mean you couldn't propose changes. When I was commish, I would take the proposals of the absentee owners and present them at the party, along with their reasoning for such proposed changes using their explanations they sent me. Wubammer - it does seem like a silly argument. Which version of randomness is more fair is basically the argument. They'll just have to suck it up for a year and then hope to push the rule change through next year then but it's a bad time of year to do it because if they decide to quit over it then you're out of 2 players at quite a late stage considering its a local league. Players in my league are obsessed with draft position for the 1st round and being #1 but never understood it myself. Edited July 16, 2014 by Dolphin_Akie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I co-commish my long time local league, we (the two commish) try to get people to discuss rule changes at the end of the season, or during the long off season, then have votes well in advance of the draft. But that rarely works, nobody wants to do any FF stuff once their team is out of the playoff picture. Nobody wants to talk about it in June, July, August. Then at our draft (Tue before season opens) they want to talk about rule changes. And once we entertain one, then somebody wants to discuss another. Then we make hasty votes, and poor decisions because nobody has given it much thought. Not to mention it makes the draft take much longer than it should. I really like the idea of having a get together to discuss rule changes in the offseason, discussion on the league message board and voting through polls/email. But only a couple owners are willing to do that, the rest just want to "wing it". Very frustrating for the commish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 All due respect, that's a crock of honda. It isn't the commish's league, it's the players' league. The commish's only job is to determine what issues players want to discuss and facilitate clear, respectful communication that stays on topic. It's up to the league itself to decide what kind of league it "should" be via vote. The commish can knock out infighting very easily - just tell the owner "quit bitching, write up a rule proposal, and I'll put it in front of the owners at the appropriate time. If they like it it's done, and if they don't like it, it's done." It's that simple. I commish my homer this way, and we don't have any drama like this - this from a bunch of D&D geeks that have been gaming together for 20+ years so yeah, we know how to split a hair and argue over it for 3 hours. You say it's a crock of honda and then you second my point... If the commish's job is to facilitate the discussion then he ought not post people's bitching in random polls. He ought to tell them to bring their issue forth in the manner consistent with how their league does these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Muto Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 That is how I run my drafts draw every odd round and reversed every even round I have always thought it was stupid the guy who got #1 pick got #1 pick every odd round but hey what do I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 You say it's a crock of honda and then you second my point... If the commish's job is to facilitate the discussion then he ought not post people's bitching in random polls. He ought to tell them to bring their issue forth in the manner consistent with how their league does these things. No, I'm not seconding your point at all. You suggested shutting down the discussion and not posting the poll. That's no way to run a league. If the owners want to talk about an issue there's no harm in doing so, ever. Taking immediate action on it may or may not be the right thing, that's more about the particular issue and actual timing, but to arbitrarily just shut down the discussion is counter-productive. They will still bitch about it, but without a neutral party keeping things on topic and above the belt. That's bad for a league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 No, I'm not seconding your point at all. You suggested shutting down the discussion and not posting the poll. That's no way to run a league. If the owners want to talk about an issue there's no harm in doing so, ever. Taking immediate action on it may or may not be the right thing, that's more about the particular issue and actual timing, but to arbitrarily just shut down the discussion is counter-productive. They will still bitch about it, but without a neutral party keeping things on topic and above the belt. That's bad for a league. Except this isn't a case of just talking about an issue. This is a case of the commissioner buckling under pressure from 2 guys and putting something up for league vote after the time period that their league allows rule changes. Posting the poll was a poor move by the commish. Facilitating discussion is great, but allowing any disgruntled manager to bring any issue to a vote at any time is some weak ass administration. They have a system for changing the league. These 2 owners are not operating within that system and the commissioner is allowing it to happen. Weak commissioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Except this isn't a case of just talking about an issue. This is a case of the commissioner buckling under pressure from 2 guys and putting something up for league vote after the time period that their league allows rule changes. Posting the poll was a poor move by the commish. Facilitating discussion is great, but allowing any disgruntled manager to bring any issue to a vote at any time is some weak ass administration. They have a system for changing the league. These 2 owners are not operating within that system and the commissioner is allowing it to happen. Weak commissioner. And if only two guys want the change it will get nuked and disappear. Changing draft process in July is hardly a crippling move. If we're talking about draft day or a couple days before where a new process might necessitate preparation and mocks, then sure, you either table the poll or the implementation of the new rule until next year. But there's no indication in OP that's the case, and we're weeks away from primary draft season. Stifling discussion just because it didn't fit into some arbitrary window is bad management. End of season is theoretically great, everyone is fresh on what just happened, but for some it's a terrible time. Holidays (which can mean a severe ass-kicking at work for a LOT of people), back to school, sick kids, vacations and travel - it's 2014 now, and we're a bunch of middle-aged guy with lives and wives and a ton going on that are trying to play a fantasy game. The commish needs to take a "no harm no foul" approach in these circumstances. If a discussion or new rule implementation will be disruptive to the effective operation of the league, then sure, shut it down until later on. If you can't get a full quorum to discuss it between now and a reasonable lead-time for the draft (2 weeks maybe?) then absolutely table the issue for next season. Put it another way - if this were a POSITIVE change for the league, you'd justify getting it done. Just because it sounds like a negative change shouldn't mean the commish sits on his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 And if only two guys want the change it will get nuked and disappear. Changing draft process in July is hardly a crippling move. If we're talking about draft day or a couple days before where a new process might necessitate preparation and mocks, then sure, you either table the poll or the implementation of the new rule until next year. But there's no indication in OP that's the case, and we're weeks away from primary draft season. Stifling discussion just because it didn't fit into some arbitrary window is bad management. End of season is theoretically great, everyone is fresh on what just happened, but for some it's a terrible time. Holidays (which can mean a severe ass-kicking at work for a LOT of people), back to school, sick kids, vacations and travel - it's 2014 now, and we're a bunch of middle-aged guy with lives and wives and a ton going on that are trying to play a fantasy game. The commish needs to take a "no harm no foul" approach in these circumstances. If a discussion or new rule implementation will be disruptive to the effective operation of the league, then sure, shut it down until later on. If you can't get a full quorum to discuss it between now and a reasonable lead-time for the draft (2 weeks maybe?) then absolutely table the issue for next season. Put it another way - if this were a POSITIVE change for the league, you'd justify getting it done. Just because it sounds like a negative change shouldn't mean the commish sits on his hands. Fair enough. I am kinda working from the thesis that being outside their usual timeframe for this sort of change that it is disruptive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin_Akie Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Fair enough. I am kinda working from the thesis that being outside their usual timeframe for this sort of change that it is disruptive. I guess the Commish just needs to gauge the feeling among all the league members, no point quashing any vote if it means playing a whole season with 2 players moaning especially if a vote would be against a rule change anyways. Might as well settle it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Very easy solution: the teams that are dependent on their draft position have already lost. This is true. If you do your homework, draft based on stats/values you will be far better off and won't mind drafting 10th. If you need extra help, this guide is a tremendous help: http://www.spam.com/the-2014-fantasy-football-draft-guide-is-here/ Reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeductiveNun Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Well, it's official. We are changing to a snake draft for this season. 19 years of tradition, and the last original idea from the beginning of the league was voted away via a league poll. The poll had 4 options (number of votes received in parenthesis): Keep the draft the way it is (3) Snake draft with draft position decided by picking random number (4) Snake draft with draft position decided by reverse of last seasons finish (4) Pick your position and keep that position every round (e.g. get third pick and pick 3rd every round). (1) Two years ago we voted on this same issue. The vote then was 8-4 to keep things as they were. I have no idea why people changed their minds suddenly in the last 2 years and that's the most frustrating part about all of this. The new commissioner lamented the fact that the old drafting style is going away, yet he didn't vote for it (his was the idea that got 1 vote - his vote) There was no discussion. Nobody wanted to discuss it I guess. I tried to facilitate one and keep it civil - nobody other than one other owner was open to talk about it. I love this league, but sometimes it just makes me feel like Time to move on and get ready for the ever exciting snake draft that damn near everyone and their brother uses now. Edited August 1, 2014 by SeductiveNun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Good luck hope the changes works for your league. I think some times in long time leagues people are just looking to change the rules occassionally. They feel things get old or stale and trying something new will keep it exciting (or bring back their excitement). I've heard that from members of our 20 year leauge. Its the opposite of "keep it that way because its always been that way". We went through that some with roster changes, division/conference/schedule changes, adding team defense, and various scoring options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 The commish's option was by far the worst of the bunch, the definition of unfair really. Go with the standard serpentine as the league voted, then afterwards quietly poll some of the long time owners if they really had more fun with it - if not, nothing says you can't simply propose a return to the old way and you'd likely have enough support for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.