Shorttynaz Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Well - when it's working. Too soon?? I ask this question cause it is a great tool - and I'm sure the Huddle team likes to hear this, but yesterday at my draft I heard 7 of the 10 managers griping about "the website they use" is down and they couldn't log in to find the latest. Halfway through our draft, one of them says "hey - the site I use just came back up. I was just emailed some PDF's - better than nothing." I didn't ask at all - I knew they were talking about this site. I however (as stated yesterday) paid the yearly fee for one of the huddle's competitors websites - I wanted a "live" (if you will) list of an overall top 200 in a PPR format. Not here nor there - I'm hoping the powers to be here learned a thing or two about disaster recovery.. Anyway, it got me thinking. If 7 of the 10 people in the league are using rankings from one site, how valuable does that site become? Meaning - if we're all looking at the same "sleepers and busts", are they really sleepers and busts at that point? Cause now everyone will be aiming higher. I feel that I drafted a solid team yesterday using someone else's projections - I know one of the other guys in our league uses them too - but still - seems like we had the upper hand yesterday. I suppose my question is - if nearly everyone was paying for the same information, how is that information as valuable as it should be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I think that site is still valuable, because then in effect it becomes a fairly reliable "price guide" if nothing else. Everyone needs a starting point when making their preseason projections. And it does often create a "herd mentality" which can be picked apart with a formidable outside strategy. In any case - information is king and I want to know what everybody is tuning into before I draft with them. So yes, worth the price of admission no matter how you look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheMan_5 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Having the same information an knowing how to properly use thy info to your advantage are 2 different things. Frankly, a lot of people in my league also use thehuddle. I use that knowledge to my advantage. For example , I have a pretty good idea who others are targeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 We used to have multiple people in our league using The Huddle, over the years some stopped, other continued and some that left (including myself) came back. I consider the info valuable to me, whether others are using it or not. I'm not going to use (especially pay)for another sites info just because it is different. Most who are here and keep coming back trust The Huddle site info, opinions etc. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. I can see the point that if many in a league are using the same info you don't have the upper hand because they know what you do. But I wouldn't use that as reason to stop using them or add other sites. I do use 1-2 other nonpay sites that I've followed over the years and have some feeling for their accuracy. rattsass beat me to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Well - when it's working. Too soon?? I ask this question cause it is a great tool - and I'm sure the Huddle team likes to hear this, but yesterday at my draft I heard 7 of the 10 managers griping about "the website they use" is down and they couldn't log in to find the latest. Halfway through our draft, one of them says "hey - the site I use just came back up. I was just emailed some PDF's - better than nothing." I didn't ask at all - I knew they were talking about this site. I however (as stated yesterday) paid the yearly fee for one of the huddle's competitors websites - I wanted a "live" (if you will) list of an overall top 200 in a PPR format. Not here nor there - I'm hoping the powers to be here learned a thing or two about disaster recovery.. Anyway, it got me thinking. If 7 of the 10 people in the league are using rankings from one site, how valuable does that site become? Meaning - if we're all looking at the same "sleepers and busts", are they really sleepers and busts at that point? Cause now everyone will be aiming higher. I feel that I drafted a solid team yesterday using someone else's projections - I know one of the other guys in our league uses them too - but still - seems like we had the upper hand yesterday. I suppose my question is - if nearly everyone was paying for the same information, how is that information as valuable as it should be? The information is what you make of it. Huddle and other sites are giving you research, guidelines, and updates that let you know a players potential and/or risk. By no means are they saying draft in this order and that is where most people seem to screw up. My household subscribes to Huddle, but I also use information from other websites and resources to draft what I think is the best team regardless of cheat sheets or even ADP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'd say it is just as, if not more valuable than any other information - you now know exactly (well, close to it, depending on how much independent thinking these guys do) how these owners have players ranked, and you can adjust and manipulate your strategy accordingly - you now know who you have to reach or move up to get... and who you can likely wait on an extra round. Info like that is invaluable. I've been with the huddle since day one essentially, and find their projections/info to be top notch, but it is not my only source of information. I take the info from here and other resources, have a group of a few other players that Itrust that I bounce ideas off of (primarily the guys I co-own an FFPC team with) and use all of that information to come up with my own ideas of where to value players. On a separate note, and perhaps it is something for another thread, but I find "overall" lists to be the most overrated "tool" that a lot of people seem to want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPIchamp Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Sorry staff, but I don't ever say a word to anyone in any league that I use Huddle, why shoot myself in the foot like that and lose an advantage? PFF Gold member too, and I buy a one month subscription to their premium stats in October. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebo Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Sorry staff, but I don't ever say a word to anyone in any league that I use Huddle, why shoot myself in the foot like that and lose an advantage? PFF Gold member too, and I buy a one month subscription to their premium stats in October. +1 Best secret ever.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree22 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Some thing that was not said. If everyone is using the same projections/cheat sheets and they are superior to another projections/cheat sheets why would you use a less superior cheat sheet? To make yourself feel better about your draft? Now the question is do you think thehuddle's projections superior to the other sights? That is the real question. Me personally I have been using thehuddle since 97 or 98 when it was free. And have used it every since. I got burned one year and used there sheet with no added insight on my part one year (was just lazy and relied on them only). That year they had Koren Robinson as a top 4 or 5 WR and he was a bust. So as good as this site is ( I found them to be better at it then most.) NO ONE is right all the time. Their write ups are great and deep. They give you more insight to players and teams. The Huddler membership and board community is top notch and full of really good insight. That is why Thehuddle is my only paid sight. But I use the huddle as my base and then adjust player projections up or down on my own. So even if someone is using the same sheet as me, we really aren't, Because I move some players up and down on the list myself. So in short, it doesn't matter what site you or anyone is using YOU SHOULD BE DOING YOUR OWN SHEETS. But it helps to have a good base to work from, and I have found the huddle to be one of the best if not the best personally. I guess you will find out by the end of the year which site was better for you between thehuddle and the other site you are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I suppose I came across the wrong way here. I've been subscribing to the huddle for 9 or 10 years now - I think. Maybe 8?? I really like the site - I like their projections, I like the articles and player insight provided "pre-FF draft". I read it and make a mental note of players I like, and players I won't be taking based on their ADPs - like Trent Richardson for example. I won't say I'm passing on him, but I'm not taking him before, say, the 8th or 9th round. Not that any of this has anything to do with the huddle's projections. The other site I used had a nice Top 200 as well - I didn't follow it and take the player at the top of the list each pick - but does help to have a "tool" handy to see who I should take this round based on what the teams needs are between my current and next pick. I don't know that using a huddle cheat sheet would have resulted in a drastically different draft, but there was a significant difference of opinion on some players - and rightfully so - if everyone's lists looked the same, what's the need to pay the experts for their advice - which is where I was going when I started this thread.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheMan_5 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I suppose I came across the wrong way here. I've been subscribing to the huddle for 9 or 10 years now - I think. Maybe 8?? I really like the site - I like their projections, I like the articles and player insight provided "pre-FF draft". I read it and make a mental note of players I like, and players I won't be taking based on their ADPs - like Trent Richardson for example. I won't say I'm passing on him, but I'm not taking him before, say, the 8th or 9th round. Not that any of this has anything to do with the huddle's projections. The other site I used had a nice Top 200 as well - I didn't follow it and take the player at the top of the list each pick - but does help to have a "tool" handy to see who I should take this round based on what the teams needs are between my current and next pick. I don't know that using a huddle cheat sheet would have resulted in a drastically different draft, but there was a significant difference of opinion on some players - and rightfully so - if everyone's lists looked the same, what's the need to pay the experts for their advice - which is where I was going when I started this thread.. If it's the best list, then I'd want mine to be the same as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 If it's the best list, then I'd want mine to be the same as well. I can see myself digging a hole here - and should just give up and move on - but I must ask - who's deeming it the "best list"? It's something that's included with a yearly membership on a site where you get a LOT of value for $25 or less. The way I see it is this - say we're drafting on Yahoo - and no one has a "list" per se, we're all just drafting using Yahoo's pre-rankings. Does that make Yahoo's list the best list just cause it's the baseline for what everyone's using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I can see myself digging a hole here - and should just give up and move on - but I must ask - who's deeming it the "best list"? It's something that's included with a yearly membership on a site where you get a LOT of value for $25 or less. The way I see it is this - say we're drafting on Yahoo - and no one has a "list" per se, we're all just drafting using Yahoo's pre-rankings. Does that make Yahoo's list the best list just cause it's the baseline for what everyone's using? A lot of lists will end up being similar. I'm restating what others have said probably but i think what's most effective is taking other information from other articles on this site and other sites like ESPN and then using that info to create a list of players you like whether you right it down or just have it in your head. I've found that when i rely on any one list i too much i regret some picks after the draft. The list just helps structure how i draft and gives me an idea of where other players might be picked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I can see myself digging a hole here - and should just give up and move on - but I must ask - who's deeming it the "best list"? It's something that's included with a yearly membership on a site where you get a LOT of value for $25 or less. The way I see it is this - say we're drafting on Yahoo - and no one has a "list" per se, we're all just drafting using Yahoo's pre-rankings. Does that make Yahoo's list the best list just cause it's the baseline for what everyone's using? The simple answer is people that have access to the lists on the Huddle (or any pay site or other site they've used and trust) use that info, not the list on Yahoo (ESPN, CBS or whatever site the league is hosted on). I wouldn't say you're digging a hole, but your basic point seems to be "it isn't valuable because everybody has the same list" and most of us are saying "but if it is the best list, or a good list, its still valuable regardless of what others have". It isn't a discussion or argument about is The Huddle list the best or valuable in itself, you need to make that call. If you've used it in the past and trust it, what does it matter that the majority of your league also has it, doesn't change their value. Sort of like "I'll start my WR that pairs with my QB because I get double points" theory, you start the best player, and don't let other unrelated things impact that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I hear you and understand what you're saying (I think). At some point, it really just becomes somewhat of a "Moneyball" analysis (i.e., you need to understand what/how everyone is valuing players and try to find the guys that are undervalued in certain systems). So, with that being the backdrop, having Huddle's rankings can be very valuable even if you're not using them - e.g., if you know others ARE using them, then they can be used as a de facto ADP list because you'll know how long you can wait on players, etc. and try to find value that way. Maybe I'm not being clear here either . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree22 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 TheHuddle has a top 200 list also if you prefer that over a cheat sheet format and/or ADP. I personally like the new cheat sheet format with the added pts projections using your own leagues scoring rules. I personally use MFL ADP as a guide to when players are being drafted in junction with my sheet to see who and when I can target someone. It would be great if MFL ADP could be added to thehuddle sheets but probably not being they are separate sites/companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 On a separate note, and perhaps it is something for another thread, but I find "overall" lists to be the most overrated "tool" that a lot of people seem to want. I essentially said the same thing when I said I didn't think the value of the Huddle boils down to cheat sheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Company of Heroes Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I love the content and rankings on the Huddle. Mainly I use other sites/experts to identify a few players who the Huddle may be too high or too low on. Inevitably, the Huddle has someone too high each year that ends up on a lot of my rosters, when I should have known better. This year- Lamar Miller (who has since been moved down). I know it is an inexact science and I guess the jury is still out, but ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalDodo Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I get what you're saying, I use it as a guide, or tool. I always make my own choices. I like the reference if i'm borderline on players and it helps me make the decision i question easier. I dont care if everyone is looking at it or not. I'm sure another guy in my 20 year league uses it too. In another league i dont think anyone does. They mostly rely on Yahoo and its easy pickings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfv87 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The way my League is, I pay the huddle $25 and the league pays me $200... guys in my league KNOW I use the huddle and have won reg season and playoffs BOTH 2 of 3 years and 1 or the other in 6 of 7 years... yet guys still think I am "lucky". Yes, yes I am lucky that you guys are all too cheap/lazy to find a good site and put in some time looking at the data. They draft without thought of who is left and needs of the other teams... if they all have QB's you wait on a QB, if they need WR, you draft wr for trades, if you can downgrade someone enough to make them nervous that they pass on him you can grab him... If they don't know which starters have rookies or younger guys pushing for PT then that is their fault. The huddle just makes getting the info quicker and easier what you do with it is the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onbrake Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I think the Huddle could raise the price and no would would object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I think the Huddle could raise the price and no would would object. They're right on the spot with what they charge, but I'm not the one calling the shots. I wouldn't be opposed to a small hike in subscription - maybe it will be enough to get some up to date hardware and test out failover and disaster recovery methods. Too Soon?? Most sites are right around the $25 - $30 range. There are some sites out there that charge for a draft kit subscription, player ranking subscriptions, player stats subscriptions, monthly or yearly subscriptions - as long as the Huddle NEVER goes this way, I'm a happy customer for years to come. When sites who practice what I mentioned above start to nickel and dime you, that's when (me personally) I'll jump ship and bail.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I think the Huddle could raise the price and no would would object. Ha - they could lower the price and people would find a reason to complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 They're right on the spot with what they charge, but I'm not the one calling the shots. I wouldn't be opposed to a small hike in subscription - maybe it will be enough to get some up to date hardware and test out failover and disaster recovery methods. Too Soon?? Most sites are right around the $25 - $30 range. There are some sites out there that charge for a draft kit subscription, player ranking subscriptions, player stats subscriptions, monthly or yearly subscriptions - as long as the Huddle NEVER goes this way, I'm a happy customer for years to come. When sites who practice what I mentioned above start to nickel and dime you, that's when (me personally) I'll jump ship and bail.. Sigh...I'm pretty sure they are not a technology company and contract this to a vendor. Please stop making it sound like they should have an infrastructure and disaster recovery of a financial institution or fortune 500 company, cause that is completely unrealistic. They probably have tiered choices on hardware, hosting, and the support provided so at most you could ask them to go up a tier service wise but that might be about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The Huddle is valuable and it wouldn't be football season without it. That seems valuable to me. Some sites will base their rankings on algorithms based on what a player eats for lunch on Tuesday mornings. Or they would if they could. I know that you could easily replace the names with numbers but I like to see rankings that I trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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