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Ray Rice Video? Is there anyone on this form that didn't think he knocked his wife out?


IrishPride
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All these Media and NFL guys want all of us to believe that without the video its different, not as visual I guess? Does the video make it worse? It just takes the guess work out? We all knew he hit her or threw o pushed...etc? Bottom line was she was unconscious and he was responsible? Did we need to see the video? Just saying that seems to be the big excuse? If we would have saw the video.....Things would be different.....I cant stand the Lies anymore. But since the NFL and owners said the video makes it different, I guess it is because I'm a dumb Fan! :oops:

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I think the NFL screwed up massively in the beginning with the 2 game suspension...so many people were outraged (rightfully so, IMO) that J Gordon and his non-violent pot gets a whole year and RayRay gets only 2 for his best Floyd Mayweather impersonation. The video didn't necessarily make it "worse" to me, only more tangible, and further magnified the out-of-touch punishment policies of the NFL.

 

I further believe the reaction to the leaked video was equally botched by the NFL. I have no sympathy for Rice, but they shouldn't be allowed to go back and retroactively punish him when nothing about the details they knew changed; it was them, the NFL, who deserved the harsh punishment. Goodell should be the one without a job, right now, as all these bad decisions are his to own.

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Its the ongoing denial? Everyone that opens their mouth, says its horrible and the video that apparently no one saw? As far as your sarcasm greatly appreciated! :tup:

You should have picked on me for spelling "Forum" wrong in the title.....

Edited by IrishPride
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This has pretty much been my point to every discussion on the topic. He was arrested for domestic abuse. He told everyone he did it. He was suspended for domestic abuse. There was a video of him dragging her unconscious body. Public outrage about his insufficient suspension caused the NFL to change its domestic abuse policy. Then 6 months later this video comes out and we are shocked and outraged and demanding justice. Its almost pathetic to me, but I can understand how a whole new demographic was exposed to the incident causing the new upheaval.

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Had the NFL just nailed him with an 8 game ban right out of the box, the discussion now would be whether the NFL was too hard on Rice instead of the fiasco that occurred. They didn't need the video to slap him with 8 games(even if they had it), they could have justified it under personal conduct. The NFLPA most definitely would have appealed and maybe even gotten it reduced some but the NFL would never have been accused of being too soft. I doubt the video would have ever gotten out, sans the "too soft" scandal.

 

Who knows. Maybe the NFL really didn't have the video. Maybe they were too afraid to give too big a ban knowing that Hardy, a star, was eventually going to get the same ban(and however many other players whose incidents were covered more quietly). Regardless, it's a shame it had to unfold the way it did, basically torching everyone on both sides.

Edited by Tripleshot
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No, we didn't need the video in order to know it must have been bad. But in this day of videos going viral, it isn't surprising that this story blew up the way it did. Think of how much larger the audience of people is now that knows what Ray Rice did. Look what happened to the Clippers' owner. Everyone somewhat close to him knew he was a racist apparently, but as soon as he was caught on tape being one, it could no longer be swept under the rug (and out he went).

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This has pretty much been my point to every discussion on the topic. He was arrested for domestic abuse. He told everyone he did it. He was suspended for domestic abuse. There was a video of him dragging her unconscious body. Public outrage about his insufficient suspension caused the NFL to change its domestic abuse policy. Then 6 months later this video comes out and we are shocked and outraged and demanding justice. Its almost pathetic to me, but I can understand how a whole new demographic was exposed to the incident causing the new upheaval.

 

I'm pretty certain a large majority was outraged about the 2 game suspension well before the 2nd video came out. All the 2nd video did was validate the opinion and fan the flames.

 

Goodell should suspend himself for an entire season without pay and suspend his "investigators" for 6 weeks without pay. The Ravens organization should have to forfiet their next two 2nd round draft picks and Bisciotti serve and 8 week suspension to which all his proceeds during that time be turned over to shelters for battered women. Ignorance is no excuse. If they didn't know then they should have.

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For me personally the video did show exactly what happened, a punch (closed hand) to the face that knocked her out. Prior to that domestic violence charge could have been justified but a push/shove or slap (open hand), or various other things. She could have been knocked out hitting her head on something. So yes the video does make it worse, and does show how violently he struck her (big differece to me, not that slapping your woman is ok).

 

As for the rest, of course the video going viral got it more press and a whole new group of people saw it and were outraged. Plus it gave the media that juicy bit to open each story about it, drawing in more interest and potentially new people to be outraged.

 

Call me naive if you like, but I prefer to deal in facts as much as possible not conjecture. Same goes for all this alleged evidence that the NFL had the tape. Some rogue cop sent it to somebody (when he shouldn't) and has now come forward because its big news. But still no real proof (that I've seen).

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Call me naive if you like, but I prefer to deal in facts as much as possible not conjecture. Same goes for all this alleged evidence that the NFL had the tape. Some rogue cop sent it to somebody (when he shouldn't) and has now come forward because its big news. But still no real proof (that I've seen).

 

 

http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2011/10/21/wapovdzvnw.jpg

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As usual your humor (or insult) was lost on me.

 

The OP asked a question I answered truthfully. Maybe everybody else assumed that Rice knocked her out based on the video if him dragging her out of the elevator. I wonder if there had been no report of DV what would people think, probably like the security guard that she slipped and fell, or passed out drunk.

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As usual your humor (or insult) was lost on me.

 

The OP asked a question I answered truthfully. Maybe everybody else assumed that Rice knocked her out based on the video if him dragging her out of the elevator. I wonder if there had been no report of DV what would people think, probably like the security guard that she slipped and fell, or passed out drunk.

 

 

You were more than willing to rely on conjecture and shoddy or alledged evidence when the NFL was on the other side of the coin. I call that irony, I call that hypocrisy, what do you call it? :shrug:

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You were more than willing to rely on conjecture and shoddy or alledged evidence when the NFL was on the other side of the coin. I call that irony, I call that hypocrisy, what do you call it? :shrug:

 

Saints and bounty gate? Something related to Rice and the DV charge and suspension? Something else?

 

Sorry I don't recall specifically where I sided with the NFL based on limited evidence. I'm not trying to be obtuse. And I really did feel that way about the Rice situation and was one of the few not outraged by the supposedly leniant punishment. (Especially when so many were dragging the Gordon suspension into it, and comparing the two which was nonsense.)

Edited by stevegrab
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That's kind of where I was going with the OP? You summed it up perfectly, Big business always finds away out or a scapegoat of some sort. This is still news and will continue to be but HYPOCRISY is perfect description. I have a family member that still insists the NFL couldn't have possibly seen that video in its entirety because the suspension would have been worse. This is what I think, IMO, The Women's opinion does matter a lot in todays society. I cut this out of an article in Forbes talking about corporate sponsorships and their strained relationship with the NFL.

 

The beauty company (Covergirl) posted this statement to its Facebook page:

 

 

“As a brand that has always supported women and stood for female empowerment, COVERGIRL believes domestic violence is completely unacceptable. We developed our NFL program to celebrate the more than 80 million female football fans. In light of recent events, we have encouraged the NFL to take swift action on their path forward to address the issue of domestic violence.”

 

Did you catch the demographic mentioned? If not I'll repeat it (80 million female football fans)? The NFL tried the good ole boys routine but got busted. It was wrong at every level but Rice and Peterson will both play in 2015, possibly 2014.

 

Forbes article - http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterhimler/2014/09/17/nfl-sponsors-rattle-their-sabers/

Edited by IrishPride
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Saints and bounty gate? Something related to Rice and the DV charge and suspension? Something else?

 

Sorry I don't recall specifically where I sided with the NFL based on limited evidence. I'm not trying to be obtuse. And I really did feel that way about the Rice situation and was one of the few not outraged by the supposedly leniant punishment. (Especially when so many were dragging the Gordon suspension into it, and comparing the two which was nonsense.)

 

 

For months you, DoG and a few others ridiculed me for calling into question the NFL's motives, their investigative methods, their use of the media to push their agenda, their lack of valid evidence and the resulting punisments they handed out on the bounty case. Now you're seeing the same bullhonda in the Rice case only they are the one's who seem like they were trying to sweep something under the rug and now, here you are, once again, ready to believe every word of it.

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For months you, DoG and a few others ridiculed me for calling into question the NFL's motives, their investigative methods, their use of the media to push their agenda, their lack of valid evidence and the resulting punisments they handed out on the bounty case. Now you're seeing the same bullhonda in the Rice case only they are the one's who seem like they were trying to sweep something under the rug and now, here you are, once again, ready to believe every word of it.

 

I believe what the current evidence supports. And so far the current evidence (not heresay or some AP report of some guy accusing the NFL of having the video) doesn't prove the NFL had the video tape.

 

Should have figured it relates to the Saints and that whole mess. Not going to get into rehashing that.

 

There's plenty of rumor and speculation and very little fact. That included those who initially believed that Rice beat his fiance and knocked her out, when there was no proof. Now I've seen the proof and accept it. There is no proof or evidence that the NFL had the tape and is covering that up. Do I believe they are incapable of such a cover up, of course not. I've said repeatedly they are a business spinning and reacting to public pressure, not doing the right thing. The NFL and Goodell are not angels in my eyes, I'd just like more proof of their wrong doing before I request my pound of flesh.

 

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm not a hypocrit.

 

You on the other hand contiue to remain completely objective and have no axe to grind with Goodell, or anybody here who dared to question your defense of the Saints. (yes that was sarcasm.)

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I believe what the current evidence supports. And so far the current evidence (not heresay or some AP report of some guy accusing the NFL of having the video) doesn't prove the NFL had the video tape.

 

Should have figured it relates to the Saints and that whole mess. Not going to get into rehashing that.

 

There's plenty of rumor and speculation and very little fact. That included those who initially believed that Rice beat his fiance and knocked her out, when there was no proof. Now I've seen the proof and accept it. There is no proof or evidence that the NFL had the tape and is covering that up. Do I believe they are incapable of such a cover up, of course not. I've said repeatedly they are a business spinning and reacting to public pressure, not doing the right thing. The NFL and Goodell are not angels in my eyes, I'd just like more proof of their wrong doing before I request my pound of flesh.

 

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm not a hypocrit.

 

You on the other hand contiue to remain completely objective and have no axe to grind with Goodell, or anybody here who dared to question your defense of the Saints. (yes that was sarcasm.)

 

 

No, you're not naive at all. Rather you're willfully turning a blind eye and readily accepting their excuses until you see "proof" otherwise. Where was your objectivity when I showed that a large part of the evidence the NFL had released against the Saints was proven to be false? You keep right on blaming all my opinions on my supposed hatred for Goodell because that's the only leg you have to stand on.

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I do believe the league either saw the tape or did not care to. This kind of thing has routinely been swept under the rug, so why do due diligence? Rice confessed the truth to Goodell. Yeah, it is possible the commish and his upper crust did not see the 2nd tape. But that would only be because they did not want to.

 

I think the video being released to the public absolutely changed peoples perception of how this case was judicated in the league office. It is one thing to imagine several scenarios that would lead to a man dragging his woman out of the elevator like a sack of wet leaves, it is quite another to see that man spit repeatedly on his woman and then bust her in the face. Honestly, the spitting part made me more sick than the punch. And when people saw that the reaction was predictable.

 

In any case the commish made a serious error here, and I see this happening all over the place. Cameras are everwhere. Nothing will be swept under the rug in the future. There will be no more secrets or back-door deals. Somebody has a picture, and they are going to share it. As soon as everybody fully comprehends the ramification of this change in society, situations such as this will be diffused more thoroughly.

 

For the commish to think that this video would never be seen points out just how intoxicated he has become with his own power. How arrogant he and the league have become. Such a lapse in judgement and attention to detail suggests to me maybe the commish needs to take a year off. Kind of like Sean Peyton did when he "lost control" of his organization.

 

Yes. Either they saw it or declined to look at it for a reason. Lets not be naive.

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For me personally the video did show exactly what happened, a punch (closed hand) to the face that knocked her out. Prior to that domestic violence charge could have been justified but a push/shove or slap (open hand), or various other things. She could have been knocked out hitting her head on something. So yes the video does make it worse, and does show how violently he struck her (big differece to me, not that slapping your woman is ok).

 

 

I have read this line of reasoning both here at the Huddle and other places and I think it is a completely naive. Apparently a lot of people think it is easy to get knocked out completely cold.

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No, you're not naive at all. Rather you're willfully turning a blind eye and readily accepting their excuses until you see "proof" otherwise. Where was your objectivity when I showed that a large part of the evidence the NFL had released against the Saints was proven to be false? You keep right on blaming all my opinions on my supposed hatred for Goodell because that's the only leg you have to stand on.

 

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on. I don't recall what proof you had that the NFL evidence against the Saints was false. News stories by people claiming it is true? Statements by people in the Saints organization who say so. Maybe you believed whatever sources you provided and I didn't.

 

Just look at this whole Rice fiasco, we have people believing as fact that the NFL saw the video based on numerous reports, including that of Peter KIng who stated the NFL saw the elevator tape, when he was told by a trusted source "I assume they saw it". He came clean about that the week the tape came out. Or like the AP story about the LEO who sent the NFL the tape, that is now considered fact by many based solely on his statement.

 

As for your supposed hatred of Goodell, are you claiming now that you don't hate him. That you don't want him gone as NFL commish, for this as well as the Saints issue and many other things? Really? Then why in this thread asking a simple question about the tape and if anybody believed he didn't knock her out you launched into a rant about how you think Goodell should be punished for his actions.

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Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on. I don't recall what proof you had that the NFL evidence against the Saints was false. News stories by people claiming it is true? Statements by people in the Saints organization who say so. Maybe you believed whatever sources you provided and I didn't.

 

Just look at this whole Rice fiasco, we have people believing as fact that the NFL saw the video based on numerous reports, including that of Peter KIng who stated the NFL saw the elevator tape, when he was told by a trusted source "I assume they saw it". He came clean about that the week the tape came out. Or like the AP story about the LEO who sent the NFL the tape, that is now considered fact by many based solely on his statement.

 

As for your supposed hatred of Goodell, are you claiming now that you don't hate him. That you don't want him gone as NFL commish, for this as well as the Saints issue and many other things? Really? Then why in this thread asking a simple question about the tape and if anybody believed he didn't knock her out you launched into a rant about how you think Goodell should be punished for his actions.

 

 

Of course you don't recall what I presented, you wouldn't listen then just like you're not listening now. You've already made up your mind, which is why I quit trying to discuss anything with you before.

 

Yes, I admit that I don't like Goodell. I think he's a buffoon who has way too much authority, especially when it comes to judgements on disciplinary actions. And way too many times now he has gotten it horribly wrong. As I've stated before, my personal opinion is that he should be gone, however I would be happy if he were just stripped of that authority and it be placed in the hands of a panel made up of both league officials and Player Assn officials equally.

 

The problem though, is not whether I like or dislike Goodell. It's the fact that every time I post something negative about the NFL you come harping in and try to make my opinion out to be invalid or sound ridiculous stating that it is only due to my bias against Nevermind that a large number of people happen to agree with me. I just hate Goodell and that's the only reason I care. As I've stated before, it's rather insulting.

 

And BTW, my "rant" since you don't get my humor, was tounge-in-cheek. It's basically the same punishment Goodell gave the Saints, because, you know... "Ignorance is no excuse" & "If he didn't know then he should have."

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we could imagine, that vedio would be a clear evidence, proved what the ray had done.

 

 

I for one imagined she was gently knocked out by the sweetest little unicorn princess but then the video was released and I was in shock!!!

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