< SIGH > I hate when owners don't know the rules

[stevegrab]

I found the original post to be a little confusing, as it seemed like you were considering not counting Decker's points.

 

I do agree that what you are doing can be seen as fair, but it also seems to go against your normal hard assed "rules are rules". When he brought Decker off IR that was illegal, because the move to put JStew on IR was illegal, and therefore he had too many players on his roster. Of course had the site prevented it, or had you caught it sooner it would have been easier, maybe...

 

Say you do catch it sooner and reverse the move (Decker to IR, JStew active) but he doesn't check his roster again, he wouldn't have had Decker in his line-up, so he'd have lost those points. Or would you have allowed him to tell you later "I dropped my 2nd kicker who wasn't in my line-up, now Decker is active and is staring instead of ????

 

That is another good question, who did Decker replace in his starting line-up?

Edited October 14, 2014 by stevegrab

[Grits and Shins]

I found the original post to be a little confusing, as it seemed like you were considering not counting Decker's points.

 

I do agree that what you are doing can be seen as fair, but it also seems to go against your normal hard assed "rules are rules". When he brought Decker off IR that was illegal, because the move to put JStew on IR was illegal, and therefore he had too many players on his roster. Of course had the site prevented it, or had you caught it sooner it would have been easier, maybe...

 

Say you do catch it sooner and reverse the move (Decker to IR, JStew active) but he doesn't check his roster again, he wouldn't have had Decker in his line-up, so he'd have lost those points. Or would you have allowed him to tell you later "I dropped my 2nd kicker who wasn't in my line-up, now Decker is active and is staring instead of ????

 

That is another good question, who did Decker replace in his starting line-up?

 

 

I have no clue who Decker replaced in his line up and really do not care.

 

The move the site was not able to prevent was putting Jonathan Stewart on IR. Stewart was listed as out on the injury report whch is a valid status to be put on IR. The move was only illegal because Stewart had been picked up from waivers in the same fantasy week.

 

A roster spot was opened up for Decker by making the illegal move of deactivating Stewart to IR. Had this owner acquired Stewart the previous week the IR move would have been legal.

 

So I changed the transaction so that Stewart was cut from the team to make room for Decker, this resloves this issue.

 

Had I caught it after the games had been played I would have done the same. Had I caught it before Decker played I would have reversed the IR move and emailed the owner (copying the league) that he needed to adjust his lineup accordingly. If he leaves a hole in his line up that is on him.

[stevegrab]

Fair enough, wasn't trying to make a big deal, just seems like had you caught it before a game there's a chance he was without Decker, this way there is no chance of that (which benefits him). Say you find it at 12:45 and fix it, and he's not by a computer, doesn't get your email.

 

As for not knowing who he benched to start Decker, I guess I assumed taht info was available (CBS has this as part of the transaction report, I can see every move you make, if you waffle between 2 guys 6 times it shows up.

 

Being a commish is not easy, and I personally wouldn't expect you to babysit their moves, was just thinking out loud about the possible things that could have happened.

[Scorcher]

better question is why anyone is wasting their time and roster space on J. Stewart?

 

 

 

If it was Fozzy Whittaker I could understand.

[Rebelarch86]

Do penalties get called for 10 plays back? Are A Rods HRs stricken from games and team records altered years later? Retro actively going back to react to something you failed to enforce is what's bull.

 

You're the commish you decided to make a rule, if you can't enforce your rule before the game actually takes place, then that's on you. It's the equivalent of a bad call. If you don't want to enforce a rule don't make it. You should also review the rule based on your own stated purpose. You wanted the rule in place so a manager couldn't stash a majority of injured players. That clearly wasn't attempted here. Do you need beuracracy in fantasy football?

 

The games in the books. Let it be.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Rebelarch86

[Dolphin_Akie]

Do penalties get called for 10 plays back? Are A Rods HRs stricken from games and team records altered years later? Retro actively going back to react to something you failed to enforce is what's bull.

 

You're the commish you decided to make a rule, if you can't enforce your rule before the game actually takes place, then that's on you. It's the equivalent of a bad call. If you don't want to enforce a rule don't make it. You should also review the rule based on your own stated purpose. You wanted the rule in place so a manager couldn't stash a majority of injured players. That clearly wasn't attempted here. Do you need beuracracy in fantasy football?

 

The games in the books. Let it be.

 

Nonsense. I'd agree with your comparison with an NFL umpire if the commissioner of the league is paid to run the league but clearly he's not and this is done in his spare time so it's a silly comparison. Plus the NFL has fined lots of players for incidents that happened during a game that went unpunished at the time and how about USC being retroactively punished (fairly or not) because the NCAA didn't catch them at the time?

Edited October 16, 2014 by Dolphin_Akie

[rajncajn]

No. You missed something. That's on you. You can't retro actively go back and call shenanigans. There should be a window for you to deal with things like this. Once you miss it, it's your job to apologize to any disgruntled players and take the blame for it.

 

I agree... And Grits should have to draft for the team as well as insert the players who will score the most points in his lineup each week. Shame on you Grits for not holding this guys hand. He needed you & you failed him.

Edited October 16, 2014 by rajncajn

[Avernus]

One thing I don't understand is how he took Decker off IR and was able to add JStew? Did he drop a player? His lineup should have restricted the move in the first place. Unless I am missing something?

[rajncajn]

One thing I don't understand is how he took Decker off IR and was able to add JStew? Did he drop a player? His lineup should have restricted the move in the first place. Unless I am missing something?

As I see it, the move to pick up JStew was a valid one which maxed out his active roster. Then, in order to activate & start Decker he moved JStew to IR. Grits is doing the guy a favor actually by just dropping JStew and allowing Decker to remain on his active roster. I'm not sure I would be so nice and in fact it may seem like favoritism to the other owners. The question is, had the guy realized that he couldn't IR JStew would have had just dropped him back off his roster in order to start Decker? I'd say likely so, but I'm not one that likes to deal in what an owner would have done when hindsight is 20/20. That may be one I'd leave up to the league to decide. Edited October 16, 2014 by rajncajn

[stevegrab]

Good point rajn, that was kind of what I was eluding to. Grits is basically saying that owner meant to play Decker and the only decision is how to allow that with the illegal move to IR JStew who was not eligible to go on IR.

 

And my point to Grits was if he catches it Sunday morning, say at 11:30AM and fixes it (drops JStew and moves Decker back to IR) that leaves the owner with an empty WR slot, which he now has to fill. (That is why I asked who Decker replaced in the line-up, because a complete undo of those transcaions could have included putting that player back in the line-up.)

 

Now what if that owner doesn't see Grits email before kickoff, and has an empty slot at WR, and certainly doesn't have Decker in his line-up. With the proposed changes being made retroactively there is no potential risk to that owner, since he keeps Decker in his line-up and only loses JStew who he had just added (plus whatever player he dropped to add JStew). That is what other owners may find to be unfair.

 

When long time owners don't know and follow the rules I am less willing to give them that extra benefit of doubt. What is unfortunate is that there are rules in place which the league management site cannot handle, and therefore it is up to the commish to monitor and deal with them, and the extra headaches in this case because the illegal action isn't noticed until after games are played (and now this owner expects he gets Decker's point).

 

Might also need some update their rules to cover this situation...

[Grits and Shins]

One thing I don't understand is how he took Decker off IR and was able to add JStew? Did he drop a player? His lineup should have restricted the move in the first place. Unless I am missing something?

 

 

Move 1: Deactivated Calvin Johnson, Acquired Jonathan Stewart in FCFS waivers - legal move

Move 2: Deactivated Jonathan Stewart, Activated Eric Decker from IR - illegal move

 

Essentially I converted that to these legal transactions

Move 1: Deactivated Calvin Johnson, Acquired Jonathan Stewart in FCFS waivers - legal move

Move 2: CUT Jonathan Stewart, Activated Eric Decker from IR - legal move

[Grits and Shins]

Good point rajn, that was kind of what I was eluding to. Grits is basically saying that owner meant to play Decker and the only decision is how to allow that with the illegal move to IR JStew who was not eligible to go on IR.

 

And my point to Grits was if he catches it Sunday morning, say at 11:30AM and fixes it (drops JStew and moves Decker back to IR) that leaves the owner with an empty WR slot, which he now has to fill. (That is why I asked who Decker replaced in the line-up, because a complete undo of those transcaions could have included putting that player back in the line-up.)

 

Now what if that owner doesn't see Grits email before kickoff, and has an empty slot at WR, and certainly doesn't have Decker in his line-up. With the proposed changes being made retroactively there is no potential risk to that owner, since he keeps Decker in his line-up and only loses JStew who he had just added (plus whatever player he dropped to add JStew). That is what other owners may find to be unfair.

 

When long time owners don't know and follow the rules I am less willing to give them that extra benefit of doubt. What is unfortunate is that there are rules in place which the league management site cannot handle, and therefore it is up to the commish to monitor and deal with them, and the extra headaches in this case because the illegal action isn't noticed until after games are played (and now this owner expects he gets Decker's point).

 

Might also need some update their rules to cover this situation...

 

 

Again owners are responsible for knowing the rules. If they violate the rules any negative consequences are on them. I try to be flexible and fair minded and almost always try to consider intent if the intent is obvious. His intention to start Decker is obvious. The only problem was in how he freed up a roster spot to activate Decker. Had everything happened the same except that Decker scored zero points my actions would have been the same, cut Stewart.

 

The illegal transaction - putting Stewart on IR and activating Decker - occurred Sunday morning at 11:10. It is not my job as commissioner to babysit the league and ensure that all rosters and lineups are legal prior to the start of every game. The chances of me catching this illegal transaction prior to any games being played are almost nil because of the timing.

 

I do try to give the owners the benefit of the doubt and as well as time to react. Had the illegal move occurred on Friday or Saturday I probably would have simply reversed it and sent a note to the owner/league telling him the illegal move had been reversed. It would have been the owner's responsibility to ensure the integrity of his starting lineup - I NEVER look at starting lineups, period. Had I caught it Sunday morning then likely I would have called the co-commissioner we would have discussed it and likely arrived at the same place - cut Stewart.

 

As commissioner my job is NOT to micro-manage the league. No additional rules are required for this scenario, heck I am not even sure what rule you think would help here.

[rajncajn]

Again owners are responsible for knowing the rules. If they violate the rules any negative consequences are on them. I try to be flexible and fair minded and almost always try to consider intent if the intent is obvious. His intention to start Decker is obvious. The only problem was in how he freed up a roster spot to activate Decker. Had everything happened the same except that Decker scored zero points my actions would have been the same, cut Stewart.

 

The illegal transaction - putting Stewart on IR and activating Decker - occurred Sunday morning at 11:10. It is not my job as commissioner to babysit the league and ensure that all rosters and lineups are legal prior to the start of every game. The chances of me catching this illegal transaction prior to any games being played are almost nil because of the timing.

 

I do try to give the owners the benefit of the doubt and as well as time to react. Had the illegal move occurred on Friday or Saturday I probably would have simply reversed it and sent a note to the owner/league telling him the illegal move had been reversed. It would have been the owner's responsibility to ensure the integrity of his starting lineup - I NEVER look at starting lineups, period. Had I caught it Sunday morning then likely I would have called the co-commissioner we would have discussed it and likely arrived at the same place - cut Stewart.

 

As commissioner my job is NOT to micro-manage the league. No additional rules are required for this scenario, heck I am not even sure what rule you think would help here.

 

 

All sounds like collusion to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2014 by rajncajn

[stevegrab]

Grits, I am not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to look at all angles. I don't expect you to micromanage your league, monitor starting line-ups or any of that. Trust me I know being a commish can be difficult and that sometimes you'll make unpopular decisions.

 

I agree with being fair and taking intent into the consideration, my co-commish and I have done that a few times when things were not entirely covered in our rules.

 

In the end, if your league is OK with how you handled that is all that matters.