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Do the Saints know something that we don't about TE Jimmy Graham


Cowboyz1
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I am not sure why it hit nerves whenever I point out that Wilson's passing stats have never been high. It seems to be a sore point I don't understand. I am not saying he is not a winner. I never said he was a bad QB.

 

 

I think this whole thing is a bit sad.

 

Here is all you need to know about Russell Wilson:

 

In his three years, he ranks (among all QBs playing at least 10 games):

 

#43 in pass attempts per game. He only throws 26 passes per game, just under Blaine Gabbert.

 

#36 in in yards per game (206). Just under Blake Bortles and Chad Henne.

 

#4 in runs per pass (1 to 5). Only Tim Tebow, Brock Osweiler and Terrelle Pryor run more often (though with significantly lesser offensive lines).

 

Touting yards per completion is pretty funny since Wilson ranks #5 in Yards per Completion over the last four years, behind only Colin Kaepernick, Kirk Cousins, Brian Hoyer and Josh Freeman so yeah, appropriate company.

 

At this rate we may never know if he is any good. He's basically Colin Kaepernick on a better team.

 

 

:thinking:

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That was from the annual "Wilson is the greatest ever" thread. I never said he was a bad QB in that one. That was the silly statistical ping pong match that Seahawks21 and I apparently do every year in the offseason wherein he extols Wilson as the #1 player in the NFL and I try to temper his enthusiasm and eventually just throw more gas on the fire and walk away. And even then - I just quoted his stats. I have never said anything untrue about Wilson's stats. Just because he throws fewer passes than anyone doesn't mean he is a bad QB. It just means he is a less productive passer.

 

Maybe I don't belong to the First Church of Russell Wilson, but doesn't mean I don't appreciate what he has done. Again - I've owned him on teams every year.

 

Why are SEA fans so sensitive about Wilson? This was a thread about Graham.

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Why are SEA fans so sensitive about Wilson? This was a thread about Graham.

 

They seem to think that he's being pegged as a Trent Dilfer and want him to be mentioned with Manning et al.

 

Wilson IS a great player in his own right, but I don't think that you can compare him with the top passers in the game simply because that is not his forte and also not the style of offense they run. It's like saying Doug Flutie is one of the greatest of all time. All-time great, absolutely. But he can never be compared with the greatest passers because he had a distant way of making things happen.

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I am not sure why it hit nerves whenever I point out that Wilson's passing stats have never been high. It seems to be a sore point I don't understand. I am not saying he is not a winner. I never said he was a bad QB. All I care about are stats that translate into fantasy football. He threw fewer passes per game than any other starting QB. That naturally spawns low completions and yards for him and his receivers. This thread is about Jimmy Graham. I said "Wilson has never used anyone to make them much more than an average receiver so far. " That is absolutely true. And it calls into question how much he will throw to Jimmy Graham. Why we are talking about 4th quarter comebacks I am not sure. Wilson certainly has his defenders. But I am not attacking him. I've owned him in several leagues even.

 

"

 

 

Stats yes but he's not on Drew Brees' team. He has been accurate and pretty clutch though and we should have a discussion after this season.

 

I see him stepping up this year.

 

 

 

 

All I said earlier was he is pretty good.

 

Besides he did play in Wisconsin too. :smash:

Edited by Randall
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All I care about are stats that translate into fantasy football. He threw fewer passes per game than any other starting QB.

 

 

Wilson IS a great player in his own right, but I don't think that you can compare him with the top passers in the game

 

 

Are we talking about fantasy football or being sarcastic again? I have a hard time differentiating.

 

Last year in FFPC high stakes

 

Manning: 378.95

Brees: 376.5

Wison: 370.35

 

Fractions of a PPG behind Manning and Brees. A +/- 1 TD pass differential. And now Wilson has a legitimate red zone target.

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Are we talking about fantasy football or being sarcastic again? I have a hard time differentiating.

 

Last year in FFPC high stakes

 

Manning: 378.95

Brees: 376.5

Wison: 370.35

 

Fractions of a PPG behind Manning and Brees. A +/- 1 TD pass differential. And now Wilson has a legitimate red zone target.

 

 

I'm talking about football, period. And I haven't been sarcastic in this thread at all. :shrug:

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I'm talking about football, period. And I haven't been sarcastic in this thread at all. :shrug:

 

 

Between only talking fantasy football, only talking real football, then only talking football period, and being sarcastic while only telling the truth...the unwritten rules here are all a bit confusing.

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couldn't beat Dallas at home with the biggest home field advantage in pro sports mocha latte frappucino drinking gheys..

 

 

 

Cowboys fans think everything's about them.

 

Wasn't this thread about Jimmy Graham?

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  • 1 year later...

Salary cap hell can force your hand sometimes. They obviously want to change their entire philosophy. The biggest issue here is that Unger is quite overrated. He's only played 16 games twice in his career. He's a very smart player and a good leader, but he's never had the frame or strength to push around big nose tackles or DT's. He's one of the better centers in the league, but the all-pro label was absolutely ridiculous. He has never been a dominant type player.

 

I would also wonder about small locker room issues. The other weird thing is...of all the 32 teams, isn't Seattle the absolute worst fit for him?

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-midseason-superlatives/

 

 

 

Best pass-blocker

 

Fewest total QB pressures allowed: Max Unger, New Orleans Saints, 1

 

Single-season record: Brian Waters, Kansas City; Nick Mangold, New York Jets; Tom Nalen, Denver Broncos (2007); and Jeff Saturday, Indianapolis Colts (2006), 4

 

What Max Unger is doing so far this season from a pass-blocking standpoint has been pretty impressive. He has allowed just one total quarterback pressure in 509 snaps across seven games so far this season. The fewest total pressures allowed by any offensive lineman over a season in which they started the majority of games has been four, recorded by four different players—three of them centers. Nobody has managed that since the 2007 season, and Unger is on pace to surrender half as many as the record. Obviously one bad game could blow this record immediately out of the water, but so far, Unger’s performance has been exemplary.

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  • 1 month later...

 

So, how many playoff appearances are the Saints going to rack up while Max Unger is a Saint?

If they can ever get a defense to at least compliment the #1 rated offense in the league then I'd say several. :shrug:

 

I still think the Saints got the better end of the deal. Graham is right around where I thought he'd be and Unger is still one of, if not the, best centers in the league. The first rounder we got gave us Stephone Anthony, who has been outplayed this year by Craig Robertson, but Anthony is still very young and I still believe will be a very good player. He showed a lot last year, he just wasn't ready.

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The Saints offense hasn't missed a beat while Seattle's offensive line has become one of the 2 or 3 worst in the NFL. The Seahawks choosing to not put resources into their offensive line might have been a calculated move. Russell Wilson is the best scrambler in the NFL. Though Wilson might have stayed healthy with a better offensive line...........

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. Graham is right around where I thought he'd be

:lol: C'mon now, You predicted Fleener was going to outscore Graham.

 

You've talked down Graham's value in this thread since the trade; and you were right last year, for sure. But don't try to pretend you thought Graham would be the 3rd highest scoring FF TE after week 11 of the 2016 season within easy striking distance of being the #1.

 

In high stakes FFPC I drafted Graham as the 16th TE off the board after Gronk, Reed, Olsen, Kelce, Walker, Fleener, Barnidge, Ertz, Thomas, Witten, Eifert, Gates, Bennet, Allen, and Ebron.

 

He certainly isn't right around where I thought he'd be.

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:lol: C'mon now, You predicted Fleener was going to outscore Graham.

 

You've talked down Graham's value in this thread since the trade; and you were right last year, for sure. But don't try to pretend you thought Graham would be the 3rd highest scoring FF TE after week 11 of the 2016 season within easy striking distance of being the #1.

 

In high stakes FFPC I drafted Graham as the 16th TE off the board after Gronk, Reed, Olsen, Kelce, Walker, Fleener, Barnidge, Ertz, Thomas, Witten, Eifert, Gates, Bennet, Allen, and Ebron.

 

He certainly isn't right around where I thought he'd be.

You're talking in fantasy terms, I'm talking about reality. Fantasy terms are relative to the other players at the position regarding rank.

Yes and I freely admit that I was wrong about Fleener, however, this was my prediction for Graham (which you labeled as "fair" BTW).

 

 

 

So, BB... How close do you think JG will get to his stats from last season? Normal expectations if he were with New Orleans would put him at about 1100 yds and 12 TDs. My guess with Seattle is that he won't top 800 yds assuming he does not get hurt. The touchdowns may still be there, but I'm guessing 10 or less.

 

Graham has 769 yds & 5 TDs. That's not much further than I thought he'd be at this point. He'll probably top the 800 mark, but he's still down from expectations of when he was with the Saints.

 

Honestly, I wasn't trying to dog Graham and truthfully I'm happy to see him succeeding. I also will admit that he has been more of an impact player this year than I thought he'd ever be in Seattle, but he's still not quite the same player he was with the Saints IMO.

 

My biggest beef in this thread wasn't actually with Graham, it was with Unger being labeled as overrated.

Edited by rajncajn
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