dalando Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Just looking for some opinions here... I am in a 10 man keeper league, each year we pick a 2 year keeper so we end up having a 2 yr keeper and a 1 yr keeper each year. We have not had stipulations on who you can keep (ie.. FA that you picked up have been fair game and they do not have to be drafted after a certain round..etc) Last year, when Adrian Peterson was suspended, another owner who had him for his final year of the 2 years, dropped him. He was then able to pick up an additional player on his roster and have better options for winning the rest of the season. (since we have initiated keepers, it has been allowed to drop them if injured or just were not good anymore) SO, during his suspension, i picked up AP and let him sit on my roster for the rest of the year so that i can keep him this year. A few people in my league feel that he needs to be available to everyone at the draft as he was just recently a keeper (this has not been a rule in the past). My argument is that he became a FA when he was dropped and i picked him up, therefore making him eligible to keep this year. THOUGHTS? (this will help us decided prior to our draft this year) thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolly Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Was Peterson acquired as a waiver claim or did he clear waivers to become a true freeagent? I ask this because if he was a free agent (clearing waivers) when you added him, that means every manager had equal opportunity to add him to their team, making his two year keeper contract void the moment he became a free agent. If he was claimed off waivers using FAAB or another means, then I feel his 2 year keeper contract was still on going through last season and therefore should be thrown back into the player pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Just looking for some opinions here... I am in a 10 man keeper league, each year we pick a 2 year keeper so we end up having a 2 yr keeper and a 1 yr keeper each year. We have not had stipulations on who you can keep (ie.. FA that you picked up have been fair game and they do not have to be drafted after a certain round..etc) Last year, when Adrian Peterson was suspended, another owner who had him for his final year of the 2 years, dropped him. He was then able to pick up an additional player on his roster and have better options for winning the rest of the season. (since we have initiated keepers, it has been allowed to drop them if injured or just were not good anymore) SO, during his suspension, i picked up AP and let him sit on my roster for the rest of the year so that i can keep him this year. A few people in my league feel that he needs to be available to everyone at the draft as he was just recently a keeper (this has not been a rule in the past). My argument is that he became a FA when he was dropped and i picked him up, therefore making him eligible to keep this year. THOUGHTS? (this will help us decided prior to our draft this year) thanks! This reeks of all type of..well I guess dirty for lack of a better term. Yes your league probably does not have a specific rule preventing this, and if I was the commish I would be forced to allow it. But as the commish I would update the rules to prevent this in the future, and would possibly even consider replacing you next year depending on other gray areas you have attempted to or have exploited previously. It sounds like you picked him up specifically with this intent in mind and clearly some of your league mates believe it goes against the spirit of the keeper system. Course I wouldn't have a keeper system that does not have some type of cost to keeping a player either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REZ Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Keeper status usually follows the player to prevent any shenanigans. I'd say he should be in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Sounds like he was in his last year of keeper eligibility. Whether he was dropped or not he should not be eligible to keep for this year. I am in 2 leagues that do a 1 year keeper so I am familiar with this type of situation. The whole point of limiting the years a guy can be kept is so the rest of the league gets a chance to draft the player. What your talking about makes no sense to the whole idea of the rule. If he was in the 2nd and final year as a keeper than it doesn't matter if he was dropped to the wire or traded, he goes back into the draft pool for this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalando Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 He was aquired off FA pool, not from waiver wire. Everyone had equal opportunity to aquire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalando Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 I DID have intent on keeping him this year when I picked him up. In the past, we have been able to keep FA pickups. There has never been the issue that a FA was also a last year keeper. I guess I didn't realize that this was an assumed rule that keepers un eneligible. I was just thinking I was a "savvy" owner. Seems like the rules will need to be clarified, going forward. Interested to hear more replies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) I DID have intent on keeping him this year when I picked him up. In the past, we have been able to keep FA pickups. There has never been the issue that a FA was also a last year keeper. I guess I didn't realize that this was an assumed rule that keepers un eneligible. I was just thinking I was a "savvy" owner. Seems like the rules will need to be clarified, going forward. Interested to hear more replies.. Ya you guys really need to clarify the rules then. I mean what is the point of limiting the number of years a guy can be kept then? A guy is in the last year of being a keeper, gets hurt for the season or is out like AP was, so the owner drops him and someone is allowed to pick him up and keep him for the next year? That makes no sense at all. Edited August 11, 2015 by Finn5033 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Even if he was a waiver claim, I say you still get to keep him. You had to expend resources last year to acquire him and you had to occupy a roster slot all season. Those are real costs for a future benefit. Making those decisions is called STRATEGY. In keeper leagues, strategy spans multiple seasons. Your leaguemates are just mad that they didn't have the foresight to do the same thing. If there is anyone who should catch hell, it's the guy who dropped him. Edited August 11, 2015 by BA Baracus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwaysway Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I'd agree - if you've been able to do this with other FA pickups, not just AP, there should be no trouble. Just so happens that your FA pickup is one of the best players in the game! Guy in my league tried to do the same thing with Ray Rice, but that didn't work quite as well as it seems to have worked for you. I'd be on your side for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) I DID have intent on keeping him this year when I picked him up. In the past, we have been able to keep FA pickups. There has never been the issue that a FA was also a last year keeper. I guess I didn't realize that this was an assumed rule that keepers un eneligible. I was just thinking I was a "savvy" owner. Seems like the rules will need to be clarified, going forward. Interested to hear more replies... And here's my problem. The intent is there, but yet you think in no way is this against the spirit of the keeper system? That due to the unprecedented suspension/not suspension of the NFL, the keeper system could not anticipate a correct setup for this? It did not for one instance occur to you that others in the league would have a problem with this? Again, yes you should get to keep him. But next time maybe ask about it flat out before doing something that might be considered shady. No one (especially commissioners) like having to litigate their league against people seeking exploits. E2A: When did you acquire him from the FA pool? What week? Edited August 11, 2015 by Def. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 He is no different than any other player acquired from the free agent pool. Once he was cut his status as a keeper was eliminated. In NFL terms it would be like saying if player x has a $10M salary and is cut from his team that when another team acquires his services that have to pick up his $10M salary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalando Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 And here's my problem. The intent is there, but yet you think in no way is this against the spirit of the keeper system? That due to the unprecedented suspension/not suspension of the NFL, the keeper system could not anticipate a correct setup for this? It did not for one instance occur to you that others in the league would have a problem with this? Again, yes you should get to keep him. But next time maybe ask about it flat out before doing something that might be considered shady. No one (especially commissioners) like having to litigate their league against people seeking exploits. E2A: When did you acquire him from the FA pool? What week? It was midway through the season at some point, not sure exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 For those that say keeper status follows a player, I have played in many leagues, and in none of them does a players status follow them if they are released from their fantasy team. If they are traded, yes, it follows them, but if they are released, it is essentially a clean slate. They are treated like any other free agent, and if a free agent is eligible to be acquired and kept in this league, then this situation is no different. Right now, with the information as provided, I agree with Grits that once he was cut from his fantasy team, he was fair game to any team that wanted to pick him up and take the chance on his return to the NFL. There is nothing shady in it at all, just an owner taking a gamble that paid off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Depends on the wording and intent of the rule. Is the rule to prevent a player from being kept for more than two years? Or is it to prevent one owner from keeping the same guy more than two years? If someone traded you AP would you have been able to keep him? If no, it's an easy answer that you can't keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Depends on the wording and intent of the rule. Is the rule to prevent a player from being kept for more than two years? Or is it to prevent one owner from keeping the same guy more than two years? If someone traded you AP would you have been able to keep him? If no, it's an easy answer that you can't keep him. Completely agree with this. That's why I was saying they need to clarify their rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 For those that say keeper status follows a player, I have played in many leagues, and in none of them does a players status follow them if they are released from their fantasy team. If they are traded, yes, it follows them, but if they are released, it is essentially a clean slate. They are treated like any other free agent, and if a free agent is eligible to be acquired and kept in this league, then this situation is no different. Yep, this can go either way. I am in one league that the keeper status follows the player even if cut and one where it resets. If it's not specified, I think the only thing to do is use the traded player example. Is it "a player can be kept xxx" or is it "an owner can keep any given player xxx"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishPride Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 In our league his status would stay as FA but his drafted position would be considered for this years draft. He was released, waiver claim or FA.....Assuming he's was a 1st rounder, your giving up this years, then plus 2 the following and so on. So the second year would cost you a 1st and 3rd, then 3rd year 1st,3rd and 5th. We had a rules meeting and settled it all before we started. I'm not sure there's a player worth 1,3,5, so basically we keep for two years. But once released, draft status is our only concern, he would be treated no different then any other player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Depends on the wording and intent of the rule. Is the rule to prevent a player from being kept for more than two years? Or is it to prevent one owner from keeping the same guy more than two years? If someone traded you AP would you have been able to keep him? If no, it's an easy answer that you can't keep him. As soon as AP was cut that ended his tenure as a keeper. So if the intent was to prevent him from being kept for more than two years that intent is satisfied. AP, once cut, was available to any owner via the free agency system ... just like players coming off 2 year contracts are available to any owner via the draft. I don't see how draft attributes and/or keeper status can be retained by any player that is available in the general free agency pool. That just seems silly. I have been playing fantasy football for over 30 years and have played in a multitude of leagues with varying formats ... and like Big Country at no time have I ever been in a league where players retained keeper status or draft attributes once cut from a team. I do agree that it is different for traded players ... contract years and draft attributes remain tied to traded players. Edited August 11, 2015 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 As soon as AP was cut that ended his tenure as a keeper. So if the intent was to prevent him from being kept for more than two years that intent is satisfied. AP, once cut, was available to any owner via the free agency system ... just like players coming off 2 year contracts are available to any owner via the draft. I don't see how draft attributes and/or keeper status can be retained by any player that is available in the general free agency pool. That just seems silly. I have been playing fantasy football for over 30 years and have played in a multitude of leagues with varying formats ... and like Big Country at no time have I ever been in a league where players retained keeper status or draft attributes once cut from a team. I do agree that it is different for traded players ... contract years and draft attributes remain tied to traded players. Simple, it depends on the rule. "A player can only be kept for one year". It doesn't matter if he's traded, dropped, or dies. He can only be kept once under that rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Simple, it depends on the rule. "A player can only be kept for one year". It doesn't matter if he's traded, dropped, or dies. He can only be kept once under that rule. I assume then you would mean this would carry over with the player in perpetuity. Once he has been kept once, never again can he be kept by any team at any point in his career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Simple, it depends on the rule. "A player can only be kept for one year". It doesn't matter if he's traded, dropped, or dies. He can only be kept once under that rule. This right here. I play in 2 leagues that are 1 year keeper leagues and set up just like this. Doesn't matter if the guy is traded, dropped, suspended or whatever. If he was a keeper from the year before he goes back to the draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Simple, it depends on the rule. "A player can only be kept for one year". It doesn't matter if he's traded, dropped, or dies. He can only be kept once under that rule. By definition a "keeper" is somebody on a roster whose services have been retained and who is not available to the other owners. As soon as he hits the free agent pool he is no longer a keeper on somebody's roster thus his keeper status is terminated. Just like at the end of 2 years his keeper status is terminated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I assume then you would mean this would carry over with the player in perpetuity. Once he has been kept once, never again can he be kept by any team at any point in his career? No it just means that he goes back to the draft after his keeper year is up. After being drafted again he is eligible as a keeper again for a year or 2 or whatever the rule is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 No it just means that he goes back to the draft after his keeper year is up. After being drafted again he is eligible as a keeper again for a year or 2 or whatever the rule is. That would be like saying that player salaries stick with them all year in an auction league. If an owner spends $100 of his salary cap to acquire player x and then subsequently cuts him that any other owner that picks up player x in that league is required to spend $100 of his salary cap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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