Grits and Shins Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Would a team have to give Barry Sanders or Emmitt Smith a try out today to determine the talent well is dry? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobwaa Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Would a team have to give Barry Sanders or Emmitt Smith a try out today to determine the talent well is dry? I think you are confusing talent and ability. Those guys are pushing 50 years old.... Time/age takes its toll on everyone. They may still have plenty of talent but they are unable to realize it due to age, conditioning, motivation, etc. Ray Rice is only 28. If a world class pianist gets arthritis and cannot play any more is he any less talented? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I think you are confusing talent and ability. Those guys are pushing 50 years old.... Time/age takes its toll on everyone. They may still have plenty of talent but they are unable to realize it due to age, conditioning, motivation, etc. Ray Rice is only 28. If a world class pianist gets arthritis and cannot play any more is he any less talented? So fine ... I will grant that Ray Rice may have talent ... but like all 32 GMs in the league I don't believe he has the ability to execute any longer. As I do not need to give Sanders or Smith a work out to know they can't execute, I don't have to give Rice a work out to realize he can't execute. I can review plenty of film that exists on Rice to come to my conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I think you are confusing talent and ability. Those guys are pushing 50 years old.... Time/age takes its toll on everyone. They may still have plenty of talent but they are unable to realize it due to age, conditioning, motivation, etc. Ray Rice is only 28. If a world class pianist gets arthritis and cannot play any more is he any less talented? Yes, the pianists is less talented, since their talent was playing the piano and the arthritis hinders that. Same for an aging RB, they get slower and thus have lost some of their talent. I don't think anybody is saying Rice is washed up and talentless. But his tailing off the final year he played has to be considered a warning sign. And for the limited talent/upside he comes with, there is too much risk and downside. He is not AP, not even close. If there were video footage of AP beating his boy to the point of bleeding I don't think he'd be sitting there waiting for his phone to ring. He'd still be a Viking, or be on another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Would a team have to give Barry Sanders or Emmitt Smith a try out today to determine the talent well is dry?Emmitt could still get 100 n a TD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Emmitt could still get 100 n a TD! ... in Madden 2015 Fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobwaa Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Yes, the pianists is less talented, since their talent was playing the piano and the arthritis hinders that. Same for an aging RB, they get slower and thus have lost some of their talent. I respectfully disagree ....but we can go back and forth on this all day philosophically I don't think anybody is saying Rice is washed up and talentless. I think people are clearly saying this But his tailing off the final year he played has to be considered a warning sign. And for the limited talent/upside he comes with, there is too much risk and downside. Warning sign -- possibly. Had a bad year --- maybe. Limited talent/upside ---- debatable (obviously) And what exactly is the risk/downside? Money? -- NFL teams print it. Give him a shot--if it doesn't work out you cut him...no problem. The only downside is the PR nightmare that will follow him because of WHAT HE DID ON THE VIDEO. How many RBs with FAR less of a track record get tryouts, signed to practice squads, etc. He is not AP, not even close. If there were video footage of AP beating his boy to the point of bleeding I don't think he'd be sitting there waiting for his phone to ring. He'd still be a Viking, or be on another team. He's not AP ...I agree... but if a video surfaced of AP beating a child bloody I would bet that he'd be out of the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 So fine ... I will grant that Ray Rice may have talent ... but like all 32 GMs in the league I don't believe he has the ability to execute any longer. As I do not need to give Sanders or Smith a work out to know they can't execute, I don't have to give Rice a work out to realize he can't execute. I can review plenty of film that exists on Rice to come to my conclusion. Comparing the current day NFL ability of a 28 year old vs two guys who retired over a decade ago is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yes, the pianists is less talented, since their talent was playing the piano and the arthritis hinders that. Same for an aging RB, they get slower and thus have lost some of their talent. I respectfully disagree ....but we can go back and forth on this all day philosophically I don't think anybody is saying Rice is washed up and talentless. I think people are clearly saying this But his tailing off the final year he played has to be considered a warning sign. And for the limited talent/upside he comes with, there is too much risk and downside. Warning sign -- possibly. Had a bad year --- maybe. Limited talent/upside ---- debatable (obviously) And what exactly is the risk/downside? Money? -- NFL teams print it. Give him a shot--if it doesn't work out you cut him...no problem. The only downside is the PR nightmare that will follow him because of WHAT HE DID ON THE VIDEO. How many RBs with FAR less of a track record get tryouts, signed to practice squads, etc. He is not AP, not even close. If there were video footage of AP beating his boy to the point of bleeding I don't think he'd be sitting there waiting for his phone to ring. He'd still be a Viking, or be on another team. He's not AP ...I agree... but if a video surfaced of AP beating a child bloody I would bet that he'd be out of the NFL. Agree 100% on all accounts. Particularly on the point that if there were a video of AP beating the hell out of a 4 year old, he would not only be out of the league, he would be in jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 And Ray Rice is STILL sitting on the sofa ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelmastr21 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Unfortunately the baggage is with the media and not Rice. Some will never forgive him for what he did and I understand that. But you can not find anyone that would say a bad thing about him prior to the incident and he has done everything right since. As far as we know he made one mistake in his life and because it was on video he has been black balled from the NFL. There are players on current rosters that have done worse. I do not condone his behavior. But to me it's clear that he is being black balled. The backlash from that video almost took down Gooddell. The NFL will do what it can to make sure he does not play. If it was about talent he would be coming in for tryouts or minicamps. The guy just wants a tryout and can't even get that. Yes he sucked in 2013 but look at 2012. If he wasn't being black balled a team would bring him in for a try out just to see if maybe after a year of rest the 2012 Rice version would be back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Unfortunately the baggage is with the media and not Rice. Some will never forgive him for what he did and I understand that. But you can not find anyone that would say a bad thing about him prior to the incident and he has done everything right since. As far as we know he made one mistake in his life and because it was on video he has been black balled from the NFL. There are players on current rosters that have done worse. I do not condone his behavior. But to me it's clear that he is being black balled. The backlash from that video almost took down Gooddell. The NFL will do what it can to make sure he does not play. If it was about talent he would be coming in for tryouts or minicamps. The guy just wants a tryout and can't even get that. Yes he sucked in 2013 but look at 2012. If he wasn't being black balled a team would bring him in for a try out just to see if maybe after a year of rest the 2012 Rice version would be back. If he could still run the ball ... he would have a job, baggage or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobwaa Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 so rice goes from being a top rb in the league .... a stud rb at that .... for 4-5 straight years. he has one "off" year and is done at 28 years old.....no injury history.... misses a total of 4 games in his career..... and **poof** his ability disappears. and now the Bills just brought TRichardson in for a workout .... Richardson who has been nothing short of the biggest bust in recent years. you're telling me- with a straight face- that they'll give Richardson a tryout but not rice, and it has nothing to do with that "other thing"? Come on man --if you needed proof that the guy is blackballed -- here it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaDynasty Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Spot on doobwaa. Sucks for Rice that others get a second chance or even 3rd chance but he won't get a 2nd chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Rice is not black balled, his baggage is not the only reason he is not getting offered a job. As Grits michaelredd say he'd be getting considered by teams if he still had enough talent. Its not just one issue it is the baggage involved for the potential. Look at Suh, he's got plenty of baggage, stomping on players and getting fined regularly, he signed a massive FA contract with Miami. Incognito, he bullied another player in the locker room and was punished for it, he got another job. Hardy was accused of bad stuff, suspended and got a job with the Cowboys. Guys that have baggage are not blackballed, they just have more risk, including bad PR that make them less desirable. Heck Vick is still bashed by many for his dog fighting stuff and that was years ago. Every player with a checkered past needs 2 things to continue playing, an owner willing to risk the bad press by signing him but more importantly enough ability to make to consider him in the first place, but also enough to make it worth the bad press to start with. A team just having Rice in for a workout would generate a bunch of negative press, and that's the only way they'll really be able to evaluate his ability. Sorry long winded as usual, but the basic point is diminished skill plus the baggage make him unsignable. That may change, but the longer it goes, the more RB go down and there's no word, the more likely he is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 And Ray Rice is STILL sitting on the sofa ... You can be creepy sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 If he could still run the ball ... he would have a job, baggage or not No he wouldn't. He hasn't even had a workout. There are RB's in the league right now who look more done than he did in 2013. This is not about talent or ability, it is about that video. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I promise you if he could run the ball Jerry Jones would sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) You can be creepy sometimes Scroll past his posts, makes this board much more tolerable. Every board has one (or more) ... arguing for the sake of arguing and/or "trying to get a rise out of others". Very mature, yeah? Eventually you'll see that these trolls have zero football acumen and are posting crap just to try and get rises out of people. It's beyond old, but your mouse has that little wheel on it for a reason. Edited October 6, 2015 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Rice is not black balled, his baggage is not the only reason he is not getting offered a job. As Grits michaelredd say he'd be getting considered by teams if he still had enough talent. Its not just one issue it is the baggage involved for the potential. Look at Suh, he's got plenty of baggage, stomping on players and getting fined regularly, he signed a massive FA contract with Miami. Incognito, he bullied another player in the locker room and was punished for it, he got another job. Hardy was accused of bad stuff, suspended and got a job with the Cowboys. Guys that have baggage are not blackballed, they just have more risk, including bad PR that make them less desirable. Heck Vick is still bashed by many for his dog fighting stuff and that was years ago. Every player with a checkered past needs 2 things to continue playing, an owner willing to risk the bad press by signing him but more importantly enough ability to make to consider him in the first place, but also enough to make it worth the bad press to start with. A team just having Rice in for a workout would generate a bunch of negative press, and that's the only way they'll really be able to evaluate his ability. Sorry long winded as usual, but the basic point is diminished skill plus the baggage make him unsignable. That may change, but the longer it goes, the more RB go down and there's no word, the more likely he is done. Domestic violence is THE #1 hot button issue for the NFL. Comparing the baggage of those other guys to Rice and using them as an example to support an argument that Rice is not being blackballed is a fallacy. As stated above, this thing almost took down Goodell. It is getting special treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 If Ray Rice could help a team win there are plenty of owners in the league that would sign him in a flat second, regardless of his baggage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobwaa Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Domestic violence is THE #1 hot button issue for the NFL. Comparing the baggage of those other guys to Rice and using them as an example to support an argument that Rice is not being blackballed is a fallacy. As stated above, this thing almost took down Goodell. It is getting special treatment. Bingo. The Commish had egg on his face and that is very much a big part of this. Donald Brown got signed, Dan Herron got signed, and TRENT F'N RICHARDSON is getting a workout? Rice has more ability in his little finger than these guys combined. Nobody wants to give him a workout and break the line. Itll happen sooner or later, maybe he needs a year in the CFL or Arena league lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 If Ray Rice could help a team win there are plenty of owners in the league that would sign him in a flat second, regardless of his baggage. Not if they have colluded together and agreed that it is in the best interest of the league that he not be a part of it. You know...if they blackballed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Not if they have colluded together and agreed that it is in the best interest of the league that he not be a part of it. You know...if they blackballed him. LOL ... I will never believe all 32 owners got together and put all of their monster egos aside and said 'nobody sign Rice because of his baggage'. Nope those owners want to win too badly, Jerry Jones would be FIRST in line to sign Ray Rice if he had enough talent to make a difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 LOL ... I will never believe all 32 owners got together and put all of their monster egos aside and said 'nobody sign Rice because of his baggage'. Nope those owners want to win too badly, Jerry Jones would be FIRST in line to sign Ray Rice if he had enough talent to make a difference. So...the 32 singular members who make up the league don't get together and make collective decisions about their organization... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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