kwolf68 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 OK-so in my league we're in our 15th year. I have a 'rival' and we have banged heads over the years. Free agency has also often been a pain for all involved. We've tried literally every system known (except waivers) and we have come up with: -unlimited moves per week -players cut are locked for 2 days -players acquired must remain on roster for 2 days -there are no time restrictions (free agency is full and open on Sunday even though I am an ice hockey coach and am almost always at a rink on Sundays) Two days ago someone cut Kendall Wright. I saw the timestamp and knew that today at 12:19:29PM he would unlock. My receivers are very MEH...Reuben Randall, Funchess, AJ Green banged up...so Wright would be a solid add. So, I cut a player to open a spot and sure enough my rival does the same thing. We then "go for the player" and I landed Wright at 12:29:37PM, 8 seconds after he opened up. This owner lost his marbles, starting posting tirades on the fantasy league chat site, even implying I cheated with "you always get guys like that." He said we need to just allow owners to be able to pickup a player that was immediately cut. WE DID THAT BEFORE and people hated it and that was when none of us had lives. We are older, we have people with families, jobs, we have a police officer who can't be monitoring the website 24/7 so the 2 day period allows everyone a reasonable chance to ascertain the free agent market and then YES it becomes a race to the button when a coveted player opens. And as I told him both he and I (and our 10 other owners) had the same equal chance of getting Wright, and it sounds like a lot of sour grapes. I have already told him the ONLY option our league has yet to try is waivers and considering he is almost always among the top owners he will probably like that less. He has no interest in that (neither do I), he'd rather just cherry pick free agents that were immediately cut. I hate that idea, don't like it and believe our system is about as good as it gets for our needs. Am I right in thinking this dude is just full of sour grapes or is there a better way to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awahl63 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Have you tried free agent blind bidding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Have you tried free agent blind bidding? What is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboysDiehard Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I think you're right, he has no room to complain as the rules are set. I have a similar situation with a fellow who's been in the league since I started it 20 years ago. Outside of FF, we are great friends. Inside of FF, it's dog eat dog and he tries to litigate EVERYTHING it seems. I actually dropped out of a league this guy ran because he was the commish and had a rule that he had to approve all add drops. Of course, he would snap up the player if he wanted it right after approving the drop. To be fair, he did correct this after I complained, but by then I had seen enough. That league wasn't big enough for the both of us, as they say. So, here is how we handle it: 1. Players lock when their games start. After that you can only get them during a claims period which runs Wednesday afternoon. 2. After claims run at 4pm MT on Wed, there is a four hour dead period until 8pm where no one can pick up a player. This gives folks (with lives) time to get home and pick through the scraps if they want. First come first serve, except for players that were dropped. 3. Dropped players are locked for 24 hours before they can be picked up. Same logic, gives folks a chance to see what's out there. A second option, as you say, is Waivers for the dropped players. It may be best for you, as folks don't have to camp by their computers like you two were doing to grab a dropped player. After 24 hours, player clears waivers and becomes available to all. I don't do this in my league, but it's a possibility. The ESPN leagues I'm in actually do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboysDiehard Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 What is that? You can allocate a set amount of 'points' to use as dollars for the year. folks put in bids for players, when the deadline comes, the person who bid the most gets the player. Downside is that when you're out of points you can't bid later in the year on another. Another way to do it is with money and add it to the pot. I did it in FF baseball a couple of years and quit as it was near impossible to collect it all at the end of the year. Also, folks can run up a heck of a tab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Good stuff Cowboys Diehard. I have to laugh about the money thing. Our worst owner has money to burn I could see him paying 50 bucks for a free agent just to try to win. LOL. I just don't like the wavier period. It can still invite collusion and it also rewards owners who are in the toilet (yes sometimes not by their own doing). That deal where he was approving free agents is nuts. What I am trying to accomplish with these rules is: -Give the owners freedom to move around as much as possible -Limit potential collusive practices -Maintain competitive balance by allowing a waiting period so owners can see the field There is NO perfect systems...the entire "race to the button" me and this guy played today is frustrating if you lose (I've lost before), but one thing about that system is we both had the same chance to get the player. it's also a lot of butthurt. We seem to snag either other's guys in the draft and we manage/play our teams very much alike. I was totally not shocked when I looked at the website at noon and saw him floating around on it. I knew he was going for Wright (admittedly he should as he could use the help there too). This guy is a huge rival of mine and part of the issue is how similarly we play fantasy football. But if I get beat I just say a few choice words and move on. He went viral on the chat site...he is "over it now" he says. LOL Edited September 24, 2015 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Dropped players go on waivers - I've never had, or seen anyone else have, any issue with that format. Not sure how it invites collusion in any way. It also doesn't have to reward owners who are in the toilet, assuming you have rolling waivers - it rewards those who have held onto waiver priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Dropped players go on waivers - I've never had, or seen anyone else have, any issue with that format. Not sure how it invites collusion in any way. It also doesn't have to reward owners who are in the toilet, assuming you have rolling waivers - it rewards those who have held onto waiver priority. The way it could invite collusion was if the player first in the order was set to take a player who could be dropped by a colluding member. It could invite it, but probably not a huge risk. So you guys play rolling waiver for dropped free agents and wide open for others. I may look into that as possible option next year. I simply am opposed to an owner being able to snag a player just cut. I do like the idea that to exhaust your waiver position you have to make sure you want a guy. Obviously, Wright would have been selected, but most often players like that won't be cut. It's usually fringe players. So if you want to use up your position on a fringe player have at it. Edited September 24, 2015 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I don't see that sort of collusion as any different than a crappy team just trading a useful player to another team for peanuts - commish simple needs to watch out for that sort of thing. If it's clear that somebody useful was dropped and the dropping team doesn't benefit at all, then you look at the collusion angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Honestly Balzac I am not really worried about that. The ONLY time it ever happened was a few years back when we had 3 owners leave and 2 of the new ones who came in made a really effed up trade. We all knew it was BS, but as commissioner I let it go, but those 2 owners were not invited back (the third owner has remained, had a great run with us and won the league last year) the next year (guys who previously left reclaimed their spot). NO, in our league the owners having bad years want to screw up the good owners if they can. LOL. So in reality I shouldn't get fixated on the collusion angle unless-as you state-something just comes up that looks off. And with this crew that doesn't expect to be an issue. I am looking for fairness, maintaining competitive balance and not micro-managing the owners ability to manage the team how they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 FAB is truly the best way to go. After FAB, you have first come/first serve and dropped players should be locked for a full week. The Free Agent Budget could be, but most likely never is "real" money, just an allotment of dollars that an owner can not go over. There is a simple fix to your issue, and the other owner needs to grow a pair and/or find different hobbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 FAB is truly the best way to go. After FAB, you have first come/first serve and dropped players should be locked for a full week. The Free Agent Budget could be, but most likely never is "real" money, just an allotment of dollars that an owner can not go over. There is a simple fix to your issue, and the other owner needs to grow a pair and/or find different hobbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) The system where a player "unlocks" after 24 or 48 hours is retarded. A player should have to go through waivers if they are dropped. But if it's how your league works, then make sure you have a fast internet connection for when any good player unlocks. This is what I am trying to figure out....the guys in the league don't like restrictions of any kind. But I do like the dropped player goes through a waiver process idea a lot. Edited September 24, 2015 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelmastr21 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Just use waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Blind Bidding is the answer. Everyone gets $100 fake dollars per year to spend. Every week you bid on free agents. Dropped players lock until next bidding window (could set up two, one on Wed one again later). Lots of fun optional stuff to look at - can players buy more fake $ with real $ (that gets fun fast - are you gonna drop $20 real to for $50 fake and bid it all on Matt freaking Jones???)? After the bid window, do remaining players go free-for-all or min-bid until Sunday's games? When a player runs out of money, are they just hosed, or can they enter the FFA/min-bid window after? Can you trade waiver $? Does it roll over from year to year (keeper/dynasty)? Any system where one guy gets an advantage from being at the computer/phone when others can't is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hezagenius Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 +1 on blind bidding. You don't have arguments about who has priority on the waiver wire. And if you really want a guy, just bid a lot of money. It's up to you. I was in a league that every FA was locked until 8am on Wednesday morning and then it was a free for all. God I hated that. In my league, players are locked at their game time. Bye week teams lock at the first game of the week. The bidding period goes to 2am Wednesday morning I think. Then bids get processed. After that, any FA can be picked up first come first serve. Dropped players hit the waivers for a certain period. My league is 48 hours. During that time, you can put a bid in on them. We've had zero complaints and my league has "that guy" that likes to complain about anything and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 We used to have free for all FCFS and owners that had the ability to be glued to their televisions and computers on Sundays were getting the most desirable free agents. We decided to implement a waivers system so that those of us who had lives wouldn't be penalized by those that didn't have lives. We have a priority waiver period and a FCFS waiver period. Players are locked each week after their game starts until Tuesday morning when the priority pick waivers run. After priority pick waivers run it is FCFS until a player's game kicks off. Owners may only make 1 priority pick and there is a modest fee associated with making a priority pick over and above the normal transaction fee. Priority picks are awarded based on team standings, worst to first. The owners that are currently running at the top of the league occasionally complain that they are always last in priority, but it is what it is. Most often the owner that is last in priority ranking will forego the fee and try to grab his player in FCFS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Couch Potatoe Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Waivers doesn't always reward the $hitty team if you have a waiver that once you use it you go to the bottom and it doesn't roll over every week where the worst record gets first dibs. So you hold onto that waiver for sometimes half the year just to get that diamond in the rough so it favors no one except maybe the guy with the most patience... Edited September 25, 2015 by Sunday Couch Potatoe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Waivers doesn't always reward the $hitty team if you have a waiver that once you use it you go to the bottom and it doesn't roll over every week where the worst record gets first dibs. So you hold onto that waiver for sometimes half the year just to get that diamond in the rough so it favors no one except maybe the guy with the most patience... I was trying to get our system changed to not reset waiver order every week, maybe every 2-3, no traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Good feedback fellas. I posted the idea of priority waiver + fcfs system on my league website yesterday...So far Crickets. LOL. But I am absolutely NOT going with the idea a player just cut can be picked up by another owner. The joker pining for that is doing so because that system is advantageous for him. Edited September 25, 2015 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Just use waivers. Exactly. Waivers run once a week. Then first come first serve for whatever time period you chose after waivers run. Any dropped players can be picked up the next waiver period. Set the waiver rotation as the reverse of your draft order every year and then chose how your site will set the rotation the waiver rotation rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelmastr21 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Use waivers. Option 1: Move to last after claim Option 2: FAAB Life is short. Use waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Waivers doesn't always reward the $hitty team if you have a waiver that once you use it you go to the bottom and it doesn't roll over every week where the worst record gets first dibs. So you hold onto that waiver for sometimes half the year just to get that diamond in the rough so it favors no one except maybe the guy with the most patience... blind bidding rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 It isn't that difficult. Blind bid waivers (or worst to first if you prefer to keep it simple) run at X time (either Wednesday night or Thursday morning/afternoon, before the Thursday game) Any player cut as part of the blind bid/waiver move is not eligible to be picked up until the following week's blind bid/waiver run. First come first serve from the time the blind bid/waivers run until the start of that players game for that week. Once the players game starts, they are locked. Any player cut as part of a FCFS move is locked until the blind bids can be made the following week. This eliminates any BS quick pickups of cut players, of picking up players that are currently playing when another guy gets hurt, etc. If you want the opportunity to be able to pick up cut players, simple add a second blind bid/waiver run that starts when the first one runs and ends on Friday or Saturday in lieu of having the FCFS pick ups begin at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin_Akie Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Didn't realise missing out on Kendall Wright would make someone so crazy, clearly sees something I dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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