darin3 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The same thing could be said about alot of players in the league. You have to be in the right situation to succeed. To say Jerry Rice was only the best wr to ever play the game (which he is imo) because of Walsh is something I would disagree with all day long You must realize... this is the internet. Folks will skew things to support their argument but tell you that you're wrong when you apply same/similar logic to support your argument. At some point you just have to stop typing and find a new thread. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 You have to be in the right situation to succeed. Calvin Johnson would have dominated on any NFL team. I can't think of a worse situation than being drafted by Matt Millen. Calvin had 78 catches, 1,331 yards, and 12 touchdowns in his second year when he had Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, and Daunte Culpepper throwing to him. Jerry Rice, on the other hand, joined the best passing offense that had existed in the NFL up to that point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Yes all this talk of TD and playoff success dismisses the fact he played on a very good team, if Calvin played with such a team he would have had playoff success too. "If" doesn't matter when it already has been written. And we aren't dismissing anything. You can say that about many of the all time greats, but you can't ignore team success and the contributions a player makes when evaluating their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 You must realize... this is the internet. Folks will skew things to support their argument but tell you that you're wrong when you apply same/similar logic to support your argument. At some point you just have to stop typing and find a new thread. The thing about the internet... well, it's the last bastion of never ending 'what if' sports debate for those of us who can't get out to happy hour any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 The same thing could be said about alot of players in the league. You have to be in the right situation to succeed. To say Jerry Rice was only the best wr to ever play the game (which he is imo) because of Walsh is something I would disagree with all day long manure, best WR? Best player period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 "If" doesn't matter when it already has been written. And we aren't dismissing anything. You can say that about many of the all time greats, but you can't ignore team success and the contributions a player makes when evaluating their careers. So the IF doesn't matter for Calvin but it should for TD as in "If he had not been injured and had a short career he would have put up much bigger career stats." One of the arguments used for why he should be in the HOF. Sorry but if TD has SB MVP and playoff production as a big part of his HOF resume you have to consider "does he do it on a lesser team". I only mentioned it because people were saying "but Calvin never did anything in the playoffs whileTD was a playoff beast." I just think that Calvin was dominant, an elite player during large parts of his career, virtually all on his own talent. While TD was a very good running back with some great playoff success, but that playoff success only happens because he is on a good team (HOF QB and probably a few HOF players elsewhere). I really don't care that much, I've seen stat compilers like Bettis get in, while other more deserving players continue to be left out because of changes in the game (great WR of 20+ years ago look pedestrian with today's passing numbers). They should be compared to their peers, not players of today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 So the IF doesn't matter for Calvin but it should for TD as in "If he had not been injured and had a short career he would have put up much bigger career stats." One of the arguments used for why he should be in the HOF. Sorry but if TD has SB MVP and playoff production as a big part of his HOF resume you have to consider "does he do it on a lesser team". I only mentioned it because people were saying "but Calvin never did anything in the playoffs whileTD was a playoff beast." I just think that Calvin was dominant, an elite player during large parts of his career, virtually all on his own talent. While TD was a very good running back with some great playoff success, but that playoff success only happens because he is on a good team (HOF QB and probably a few HOF players elsewhere). I really don't care that much, I've seen stat compilers like Bettis get in, while other more deserving players continue to be left out because of changes in the game (great WR of 20+ years ago look pedestrian with today's passing numbers). They should be compared to their peers, not players of today. Now this we can agree on. Yes, you are also correct, on the "if" arguments with TD, which is why I try avoid them. Either way, we're not getting paid as analysts or hall of fame voters. But thanks to all for a healthy happy hour discussion with wings and fries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningMud Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Calvin Johnson would have dominated on any NFL team. I can't think of a worse situation than being drafted by Matt Millen. Calvin had 78 catches, 1,331 yards, and 12 touchdowns in his second year when he had Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, and Daunte Culpepper throwing to him. Jerry Rice, on the other hand, joined the best passing offense that had existed in the NFL up to that point. Well I'm sure you have more football intelligence then all of those former and current players who voted Rice as the BEST PLAYER EVER! It must be a burden to be so good at this football thing and not have a single team interested in your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 If you get infuriated because someone respectfully disagrees with you on an internet message board, you might have some psychological issues. I think Darin should start a 12 step program for those of you who can't cope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I had the same debate about him until I saw the career yards per game average: Rk Player Y/G 1 Calvin Johnson 86.1 2 Torry Holt 77.4 3 Marvin Harrison 76.7 4 Andre Johnson 76.2 5 Jerry Rice* 75.6 6 Lance Alworth* 74.9 7 Michael Irvin* 74.9 8 Brandon Marshall 74.2 9 Terrell Owens 72.8 10 Larry Fitzgerald 71.9 That's a staggering lead over the next closest guy, and that sold me. I think a better indication would be comparing all of their first 9 years and his lead won't be as staggering;however, it would still be noteworthy. I just pulled out random ones and did quick math. Jerry Rice- 84.1 ypg (and he still didn't have his best season yet) Tory Holt- 83.5 ypg If Megatron stayed, it is safe to assume his numbers would've come down also. Not to mention the fact that Julio Jones is averaging 95.4 ypg. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 If you get infuriated because someone respectfully disagrees with you on an internet message board, you might have some psychological issues. I think Darin should start a 12 step program for those of you who can't cope.I'm not even close to infuriated. You're just wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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