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Brandin Cooks: Why no love?


michaelredd9
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If you're going to blame one player for a loss because he got you a goose egg then you need to also give that player the credit for winning when he gets you 30 points. It is true that players who only have a few big games a year probably won't be in a starting lineup when they do blowup. But Cooks is good enough that I will stick with him through thick and thin. And realistically Cooks being inconsistent means he'll have 4 bad games, 6 average games, and 6 great games. Last year he had 4 games where he scored less than 10 points. You'll be hard pressed to find many receivers who don't have 4 sub-10 point games in a season.

Edited by michaelredd9
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Cooks ADP for this season has more to do with the way the Patriot's spread the ball around on any given week than his own skill set.  No one is saying he isn't talented and shouldn't be scoring a ton of points each week, it's just that usually 1-2 New England players have a really huge game and the rest are meh...trying to figure that out has been a bit baffling in the past.

 

I'm sure it will change this season... :bash:

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Looked at one of the leagues and 91.5 out of 204 points came off 3 games.  That's 45% of his scoring for the season.  He had 5 single digit games including a duck in week 12.  Those that want to crown him then crown him, but based off the hype train we're already seeing in this thread I think people are going to be overpaying in the draft. 

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I like Cooks and I would have him higher in almost any offense besides the Patriots.  Brady just really doesn't need to throw the deep ball some games.

 

Players I would draft over Cooks in a PPR league today would be Brown, OBJ, JJones, Evans, Thomas, Bryant, Green, Cooper, Nelson, and Hilton.  I'd put Cooks right there next with Hopkins and Robinson.

 

Again, it's not really a knock on Cooks...I just don't think he gets the 120+ targets (including runs) he saw last season with Brees.  Figure 80-100 is much more realistic in the Patriots offense.

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15 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Can you really choose 10 WRs over cooks?

 

I know I can, but all list are debatable so meh to doing this again. 

 

Better question at this point is are you comfortable spending your 1st round pick on Cooks without knowing how he'll be used?  If so, power to you and God bless.  Personally I like to take my chances later if possible.      

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1 minute ago, LordOpie said:

this is how these discussions devolve... I don't think Michael (certainly not me) said anything about a 1st round redraft selection. I'm saying I think he's top 10 WR. There's probably a couple of TEs, QBs and RBs that would go before Cooks, putting Cooks at the middle of the 2nd round? Would you put him in the top 20 of all offense players? I would.

 

Your keep asking about 10 WR above him, which seems to imply he's in the 5-8 range of WR in your opinion (you said you could only come up with half a dozen).  If so then even in a 12-man, you will see very near that many WR go in the first round.  So for sake of argument, those with around an WR8 ranking are either right at the end of the 1st round or are a high 2nd (which means that if you really want him you may have to spend that 1st).  In a 16 teamer anyone that has him ranked WR8 or higher WR is spending a 1st.  I don't see how that devolves the discussion when these are the rankings you implied. 

 

Its a fair question, do you feel comfortable spending a 1st on him?  Cause that is the price a WR6-7 rank carries.  :shrug:

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2 hours ago, ABearWithFurniture said:

 

I like Cooks and I would have him higher in almost any offense besides the Patriots.  Brady just really doesn't need to throw the deep ball some games.

 

 

Brady didn't need to throw deep to Moss but he did.  I honestly think New England is the best place in the NFL for Cooks to have landed.  Whereas Brees has a fairly weak arm and his shortness makes it difficult to see far down the field, Brady is tall with a strong arm.  And teams won't be able to focus on Cooks with Gronk and Edelman on the field.  If Cooks gets open, Brady will throw to him.  And Cooks might be the best in the NFL at getting open deep.

 

 

3 hours ago, Def. said:

 

Those that want to crown him then crown him, but based off the hype train we're already seeing in this thread I think people are going to be overpaying in the draft. 

 

 

I don't think Opie and I qualify as a hype train unless you are thinking one of those kiddie trains they have at the mini golf course.  Cooks has an MFL adp of 25.  Lots of cheat sheets have him lower.  Some cheat sheets have him in the 4th and 5th round.  Granted, if Cooks gets a couple of preseason touchdowns his adp will skyrocket.

 

2 hours ago, Def. said:

 

Better question at this point is are you comfortable spending your 1st round pick on Cooks without knowing how he'll be used?  If so, power to you and God bless.  Personally I like to take my chances later if possible.   

  

 

I have Cooks at 14 or 15 on my board.  But obviously it'd be a lot sweeter to get Cooks at the bottom of round two than the top.  And I don't consider Cooks to be taking a chance.  He might be a bit inconsistent but that is different than being risky.  Risky means that he could flop and I don't see that happening.  I think his floor is 75 receptions, 1,100 yards, and 10 touchdowns.

 

4 hours ago, ABearWithFurniture said:

Cooks ADP for this season has more to do with the way the Patriot's spread the ball around on any given week than his own skill set.  No one is saying he isn't talented and shouldn't be scoring a ton of points each week, it's just that usually 1-2 New England players have a really huge game and the rest are meh...trying to figure that out has been a bit baffling in the past.

 

Brady has only spread the ball around to receivers with average talent.  Gronk is statistically the best tight end ever.  Moss set the receiving touchdown record with Brady.  Welker and Edelman perennially put up huge reception totals with Brady.  I don't think that the fact that New England's running backs or Danny Amendola types were inconsistent reflects on Cooks.  Has New England ever has an upper echelon wide receiver who underachieved with Brady at the helm? 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

I don't think Opie and I qualify as a hype train unless you are thinking one of those kiddie trains they have at the mini golf course.  Cooks has an MFL adp of 25.  Lots of cheat sheets have him lower.  Some cheat sheets have him in the 4th and 5th round.  Granted, if Cooks gets a couple of preseason touchdowns his adp will skyrocket

 

Should of stated this thread and others, not the only site I frequent. 

 

16 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

I have Cooks at 14 or 15 on my board.  But obviously it'd be a lot sweeter to get Cooks at the bottom of round two than the top.  And I don't consider Cooks to be taking a chance.  He might be a bit inconsistent but that is different than being risky.  Risky means that he could flop and I don't see that happening.  I think his floor is 75 receptions, 1,100 yards, and 10 touchdowns.

 

I don't think he reaches your TD mark, that is one of my biggest concern about him (the other being target sharing). 

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1 hour ago, michaelredd9 said:

Cooks has an MFL adp of 25.  Lots of cheat sheets have him lower.  Some cheat sheets have him in the 4th and 5th round.  Granted, if Cooks gets a couple of preseason touchdowns his adp will skyrocket.

 

This is exactly right. In the future you MAY have to pay more in a redraft but there are a wide range of opinions out there from the "experts" and getting Cooks in the 2nd - 4th round is completely possible

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5 hours ago, ABearWithFurniture said:

2nd round is about where you would have to pay for him at, which I think is too high.  If he's sitting there in the 3rd (which he won't) and it's my pick I'd be somewhat intrigued. 

 

In an auction league he'll go way too high...

Yep.

If he's going in the 2nd Rd of redrafts I guarantee I won't own him anywhere. If he beats me he beats me 

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I've always felt like WR's were always more risky on a consistent basis than RB's.  Maybe it's flawed thinking but when a WR touches the ball 4-10 times per game, and a RB touches the ball 15-20ish times per game, I'll take the RB.  Now don't get me wrong, would I take CJ Anderson over JJones..........heck no, but if I'm in the 3rd round and I'm debating between a WR and a RB who I feel are on a similar tier, I'll take the RB.  I've done well for years picking WR's a little later in redrafts especially. 

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1 hour ago, NAUgrad said:

I've always felt like WR's were always more risky on a consistent basis than RB's.  Maybe it's flawed thinking but when a WR touches the ball 4-10 times per game, and a RB touches the ball 15-20ish times per game, I'll take the RB.  Now don't get me wrong, would I take CJ Anderson over JJones..........heck no, but if I'm in the 3rd round and I'm debating between a WR and a RB who I feel are on a similar tier, I'll take the RB.  I've done well for years picking WR's a little later in redrafts especially. 

 

That may be true, but the WR's touches typically result in more yardage.  So yes, fewer touches, but those touches usually result in more yardage.  It ends up being a pretty even tradeoff, at least from the research I've done.  I full-on used to be a "give me the guy who touches the ball more" proponent but then with PPR and the NFL trending more towards passing, and including the preponderance of RBBC, I've totally changed my tune.

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1 hour ago, darin3 said:

 

That may be true, but the WR's touches typically result in more yardage.  So yes, fewer touches, but those touches usually result in more yardage.  It ends up being a pretty even tradeoff, at least from the research I've done.  I full-on used to be a "give me the guy who touches the ball more" proponent but then with PPR and the NFL trending more towards passing, and including the preponderance of RBBC, I've totally changed my tune.

PPR in my mind seems to be key.  I like the PPR format but some leagues I play in don't utilize that scoring.  

 

Interesting point about the NFL in general airing it out more than ever before.  Is this resulting in more people getting touches or the same getting more touches?

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3 hours ago, NAUgrad said:

 

I'm in the 3rd round and I'm debating between a WR and a RB who I feel are on a similar tier, I'll take the RB.  

 

 

In theory that might be a good strategy.  But in practice there is slim pickings at running back after the second round.  Here are the running backs with adps in the 3rd and 4th round:

28 Lamar Miller

31 Christian McCaffrey

34 Joe Mixon

38 Isaiah Crowell

41 Marshawn Lynch

42 Carlos Hyde

For the last 5 years or so I've felt that the best value in the 4th round has been at running back.  None of the above running backs interest me except possibly Joe Mixon.  Each year there are fewer 3-down running backs.  Brandin Cooks outscored all but 7 running backs last year in PPR.

 

 

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On 6/5/2017 at 2:17 PM, michaelredd9 said:

 

In theory that might be a good strategy.  But in practice there is slim pickings at running back after the second round.  Here are the running backs with adps in the 3rd and 4th round:

28 Lamar Miller

31 Christian McCaffrey

34 Joe Mixon

38 Isaiah Crowell

41 Marshawn Lynch

42 Carlos Hyde

For the last 5 years or so I've felt that the best value in the 4th round has been at running back.  None of the above running backs interest me except possibly Joe Mixon.  Each year there are fewer 3-down running backs.  Brandin Cooks outscored all but 7 running backs last year in PPR.

 

 

I think that's why I've always seemed to really target RB's early, because there are so few of them.  I can't even think of many 3 down RB's anymore.  I've seen others grab WR's high but have rarely seen them win much with the "I'll take the RB leftover strategy".  I've always felt like I could get a solid WR later, maybe 4th round or later and end up with decent production.  I still feel that way now.

 

I agree Mixon is an interesting pick.  I would probably pull the trigger on Lynch in the 5th though if he's still there.

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  • 2 months later...

Opinions on Cooks are still all over the place, and I'm still waffling on him.

 

Would the Patriots give up a first rounder to get Cooks and use him as a decoy for 16 games? I doubt it.

 

Will NE feed a receiver not named Gronk or Edelman? Ummm...that doesn't seem to be their thing.

 

 

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Edelman was one of the least efficient WRs in the league last year per PFF. I'm pretty sure the aggressive move of trading a first round pick to get Brandon Cooks isn't a coincidence. I'm not touching Edelman this year.

 

I think low end WR2 is Cooks' floor. If Gronk gets hurt, he has significant Top 10 potential. But it's hard to see Cooks as truly elite considering how much NE usually spreads the ball around (but all bets are off if (when?) Gronk gets injured).

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2 hours ago, MTSuper7 said:

Edelman was one of the least efficient WRs in the league last year per PFF. I'm pretty sure the aggressive move of trading a first round pick to get Brandon Cooks isn't a coincidence. I'm not touching Edelman this year.

 

I think low end WR2 is Cooks' floor. WHEN Gronk gets hurt, he has significant Top 10 potential. But it's hard to see Cooks as truly elite considering how much NE usually spreads the ball around but all bets are off when Gronk gets injured.

fixed

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  • 4 weeks later...

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