Media is about to do it again

[gilthorp]

Im relaxed.  Secondly White is coming off not one but 2 ACl surgeries.  he will be a 4th round pick at best.  To say a 4th round QB is a bust, when I see him similar to Jason Garrett a career backup who can come in and win a game or two when needed, that isnt a bust.  Leaf, McNown, A Smith, and Couch are out of the NFL within what 5 yrs.  And they were all 1st round picks.  Leinart is this kind of bust imo.  White isnt going to be a franchise QB, and no one will draft him as such, so  to call that a bust, I disagree with that.

 

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He's a Craig Krenzel type...with more skill. But, he's got serious problems in the NFL IMO.

 

Now don't go cramming stats down my throat, because the two don't compare in that way--two different offensive systems.

[Sgt. Ryan]

[Donutrun Jellies]

Not saying I disagree with your opinion, but I am saying you're a bit on the serious side when you should have another cold one, bud. That's all. 

 

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And switching to chocolate milk might help ...

 

[theeohiostate]

  Thank Goodness they actually have to play for the title this yr.

 

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Last season the entire country was up in arms about USC getting slided by OU, we all knew that LSU would beat OU, at least most of us. So if USC would have played LSU like everyone agreed was the correct match up, the winner would have been a unanimous choice and no split title would have insued. This year OU slid Auburn and it's the same thing over again. USC will dominate the sooners more so than LSU did last year and like last year Auburn would have made a better game. Now, it seems you are not happy to get this match up as you were last year when you wanted USC, it appears you have already started your excuse process all over again.

 

 

Be thankful your team made the dance, cause when it's all over the critics will come roaring out of hiding asking why it wasn't Auburn vs USC.

 

Face the facts, OU ousted USC last year on the perception that the Big 12 was a tough conference, when the conference feel on it's face in the bowls, we all knew it was a crock of crap.........same story different time, what could make you actually beleive any different??? USC will punk out OU by 14 +, put your money down cause this one is a no-brainer!!

[GWPFFL BrianW]

USC was ranked #1 in both polls. The only reason LSU got a piece is because the coaches were OBLIGATED to give them one. Maybe you don't know how the BCS process works. the BCS is to TRY and get #1 and #2 on the field, however the pollsters decide the national champion. Oklahoma backed into last years NC game. They couldn't even win their own conference.

 

This year, they earned it. They went undefeated, and took care of business. USC earned it too. So did Auburn. Bottom Line is, you're just a worthless Sooner fan, who obviously can't stand the fact that his precious Jason White, who has lost every big game he's been in, didn't steal another heisman trophy. PERIOD.

[Coffeeman]

25-1 as a starter, about 6000 yards, 66 Tds, a handful of INTs. Yep, Leinart really sucks....

[Clubfoothead]

Yep, Leinart really sucks....

 

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Well compared to Adrian Peterson he sure does.

[Dragon]

Leinart won, convincingly (all but one region).

White didn't, Peterson didn't, Bush didn't.

Stop the :bawling:

[theeohiostate]

His numbers didnt warrant it.  If you take Leinart off USC, they still go undefeated with that schedule. 

 

 

 

Since when is the Heisman about the numbers?? I mean are you kidding me, although i haven't ran a statline, i'd guess there may be less than 5 Heisman winners that were actually leading the country at their respective position when they won.

 

 

There were more productive QB's this year than White or Leinart and several more productive RB's than Peterson. This award is a JOKE !! The fact that you have to be on a big time team and play on offense in itself shows that it isn't about how good the player are.

 

The Heisman is good for ONE THING !!! It shows the NFL who not to draft high

 

 

Leinart and White will be lucky to ever start an NFL game, and yet they were voted the best college player.........they aren't even CLOSE!!

[BIG A]

Since when is the Heisman about the numbers??  I mean are you kidding me, although i haven't ran a statline, i'd guess there may be less than 5 Heisman winners that were actually leading the country at their respective position when they won.

There were more productive QB's this year than White or Leinart and several more productive RB's than Peterson.  This award is a JOKE  !!  The fact that you have to be on a big time team and play on offense in itself shows that it isn't about how good the player are. 

 

The Heisman is good for ONE THING !!!  It shows the NFL who not to draft high 

Leinart and White will be lucky to ever start an NFL game, and yet they were voted the best college player.........they aren't even CLOSE!!

 

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Clearly, you know nothing about Matt Leinart. Saying he will be lucky to start an NFL game proves that. He will be the first QB chosen if he decides to leave college after this season. White will play in the NFL as well. He will go in the last day of the draft. He is better than Craig Kenzel or Jonathan Quinn.

[theeohiostate]

He will be the first QB chosen if he decides to leave college after this season.  White will play in the NFL as well. 

 

 

 

Hmmmm. Maybe you should write your own draft book and see if you can sell ONE copy.

 

Kiper projected that Leinart would be the 5th or 6th QB taken, but what the heck does he know? Maybe you don't know as much as you think.

[BIG A]

Get real, they play 2 games a yr, and he lost one of those last yr.

 

White in his last 2 yrs is

 

24-2 - 6705 yds, 77 TDs, fewer Ints than Leinart, sacked 9 times fewer, has a higher passer rating 165.44 to 158.8, the exact same Completion %, 64.5%, and has a 1800 yard back in its backfield, compared to throwing the ball to Bush who also helps Leinarts stats.

White this yr compared to Leinart

 

White - 162.9 passer rating, 65 Comp %, 2961 yds, 33 Tds - 6 INT, sacked 7 times

Leinart - 154.5 passer rating, 66 Comp %, 2990 yds, 28 Tds - 6 INT, sacked 23 times.

 

Sacks hurt your team, as the Qb can throw the ball away to save field position and prevent drives from stalling, its also part of the effiencey rating that White dominates Leinart in, this yr.

White also had 23 fewer passing attempts and has a TD on every 10.7 attempts, and 8.3 yds per pass attempt.  Thus if he threw the same # of passes as Leinart he would have 190.9 more yds, giving him 161 more yds than leinart, and 7 more passing TDs instead of just 5 more passing TDs.

But the fact of the matter is Bush helps Leinarts stats, and doesnt take opportunities away from him as this stat below will adhere.

 

Peterson has 3 receptions on the yr for 6 yds and 0 TDs

Bush has 41 repceptions for 478 yds and 7 TDs

But Peterson running the ball has

 

314 carries 1843 yds 5.9 ypc and 15 TDs

Bush and L White combined rushing have

 

325 carries - 1818 yds, 5.5 ypc and 19 TDs

You add  K Jones to OUs totals, as he was the starter the 1st 4 games of the season, and OU has 20 rushing TDs from its top 2 backs and anotehr 500 rushing yds.

OU also led the nation in 3rd down conversion % at just over 54 % and is teh most balanced offense in the NCAA.

You can break the stats any way you wish, but Leinart did not deserve the trophy over white, and Peterson, and Id even put Bush, A Smith and Benson ahead of him as where would USC be without leinart, well palmer won the Heisman in the same offense 2 yrs back with Chow running the show, and he didnt have an explosive player such as Bush forcing defenses to change its game plan the way Bush does.  M Williams was just a freshman and not near the force Bush was this yr. 

Im not saying leinart sucks in college, but I think he will be a bust in the NFL along the line of McNown, Couch, A Smith and Ryan Leaf.  White on the other hand will be no better than a 4th round pick, who is a backup player for his career.  So how could you be a bust if expectations are not high to being with especially coming off ACL injuries to both knees the yr before winning the Heisman.  Leinart would have quit football the same way he did baseball and basketball if he had to deal with adversity like that.  This is exactly why I believe he will be a bust in the NFL, and why USC will lose and lose badly to OU, when he faces the same sort of adversity for 4 qtrs that he faced the first half vs Notre dame and UCLA.

 

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What you are saying is that you are crying like a little girl because White and Peterson didn't win. You are a hater no different than anyone who hates OU. Your statements regarding Leinart as a player or what his pro prospects will be are just rantings from a jilted OU fan and nothing more. His stats are tremendous and leadership skills are as good as anyone. He can also make any throw he needs to. Attacking his character is laughable considering who is saying it. Produce something besides your opinion that shares your retarded view of Matt Leinart and maybe I will give it some thought. In the meantime, I will wait to see the game and not pay attention to a rabid OU fan who's thoughts roll out of his head like a gumball machine void of logic.

[BIG A]

You know you are as bad as OSU about waffling on his team.  You claim to be a big Arizona fan, but your avatar is of the USC QB.  This is like a OSUu fan flying a Iowa flag because Iowa is a better team this particular year.  Your credability is just as pathetic as that SEC lovin OSU fan who thinks GA should be playing for the national Championship.  Well one of his many teams before finally slobbing on Auburn for that honor of being his SEC team.

If his stats are tremendous and Whites are clearly better, why is White not more deserving?  Oh because he won it last yr, and had a bullseye on his back as the Heisman Trophy winner, and the media doesnt want him to be compared to Archie as the only 2 time winner.  Make no mistake this was more about giving the award to USC as some sort of compensation for last yr, than giving it to the most deserving candidate this yr. 

And for you to say you will not pay attention to a rabid OU fan, then why do you give your .02 every time I turn around.  You and Brian GFY, and OSU have been livin on my joke for 4 months now.  Do you really expect me to think because of what you said above, that is going to change from you.  D@mn, I seriously wish it would.  I wish you idiots actually rooted for your team they way I do mine, and were loyal to only your team,  not root for Auburn being a OSu fan, or have an avatar of the USC QB being a Arizona fan.  The only thing worse than a welcher is a fair weather f*ck.  Congrats can now be mentioned in the same sentence as OSU for this honor.

 

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How many times do I have to explain this to you? I am an AZ fan and always have been. When I first came to this forum it was filled with Pac 10 hating OU fans. I am standing up for the Pac 10. It's that simple. I know it bothers you, but that is too bad. I simply don't agree with what you say most of the time. So if I give my opinion, you put me in the same catetgory as theohiostate. If you have said anything that I have agreed with, I have said so.

 

Are you saying that everything you say is a "Joke" and we have been living in your joke? You're joking about the heisman?

 

Put me in any category you wish, it doesn't change the fact that you whine like a biotch even when your team is in the NC game. If you don't want anyone to disagree with your rantings, go make a new forum called "PAC 10 HATERS".

[Coffeeman]

I'm not one for pissing matches, so I'll throw this out there just once for you guys to take it or leave it. Basic premise: "Everybody likes an inspiring story."

 

Last year, White was a good story - the warrior coming back from 2 surgeries, small town kid makes the big stage, etc. Meanwhile, Leinart's stats were just as impressive, if not more so, but he got labeled as the kid who got the silver spoon given to him - i.e. MWilliams, KColbert and a fantastic O-line, plus of course, coach Chow.

 

This year, Leinart & Co. go on the road to face VaTech in their first game with all freshman WRs, 4 of the 5 O-line guys new, Herschel Dennis out on probation, etc. Huge question marks all around, requiring a major leap in his leadership abilities. And he did very well overall, leading his team through some tough games, starting with a scaled-down offense from Chow as the new guys came along - which is a major reason he got sacked a lot more this year. And when the run was getting stuffed, at various time of the year, he stepped up and helped them win out. 25-1 over two years, about 6000 yards and 66 TDs - not bad. Plus the part about his being a promising baseball pitcher before blowing out his arm, the chubby kid with glasses geting picked on, etc., etc.

 

In other words, he was the better story this year! AP and Bush are young - the voters figuring to have another chance (or 2!) to give it to either one of them - and ASmith just didn't do it vs. the same level of competition that White and Leinart faced each week.

 

Were White's #s better? Slightly, yes. Did he do a great job as a leader also? Yes. Would it have been a good story to make him only the second 2-time winner, rewarding him for coming back for another shot at a NC title, despite the chance for further injury? Yes. But Leinart's story, combined with the fact that some voters (tho not all) may've felt they gave it to White too soon last year, proved to be the difference this year.

 

And ironically, while Bush showed flashes of brilliance last year as a freshman, AP burst on the scene and may've had the same effect on White that Williams & Co. had on Leinart last year. That is, make it seem like his much-improved supporting cast was the real difference, not just the QB. Last year, White was the guy doing it without a decent running game, and this year Leinart did it with brand new WRs and O-line.

 

And how they go in the draft doesn't really have much to do with it at all. That is my two cents....throw all the stones you want, I won't reply...

[BIG A]

I'm not one for pissing matches, so I'll throw this out there just once for you guys to take it or leave it.  Basic premise: "Everybody likes an inspiring story."

 

Last year, White was a good story - the warrior coming back from 2 surgeries, small town kid makes the big stage, etc.  Meanwhile, Leinart's stats were just as impressive, if not more so, but he got labeled as the kid who got the silver spoon given to him - i.e. MWilliams, KColbert and a fantastic O-line, plus of course, coach Chow.

 

This year, Leinart & Co. go on the road to face VaTech in their first game with all freshman WRs, 4 of the 5 O-line guys new, Herschel Dennis out on probation, etc.  Huge question marks all around, requiring a major leap in his leadership abilities.  And he did very well overall, leading his team through some tough games, starting with a scaled-down offense from Chow as the new guys came along - which is a major reason he got sacked a lot more this year.  And when the run was getting stuffed, at various time of the year, he stepped up and helped them win out.  25-1 over two years, about 6000 yards and 66 TDs - not bad.  Plus the part about his being a promising baseball pitcher before blowing out his arm, the chubby kid with glasses geting picked on, etc., etc.

 

In other words, he was the better story this year!  AP and Bush are young - the voters figuring to have another chance (or 2!) to give it to either one of them - and ASmith just didn't do it vs. the same level of competition that White and Leinart faced each week. 

 

Were White's #s better? Slightly, yes.  Did he do a great job as a leader also? Yes.  Would it have been a good story to make him only the second 2-time winner, rewarding him for coming back for another shot at a NC title, despite the chance for further injury? Yes.  But Leinart's story, combined with the fact that some voters (tho not all) may've felt they gave it to White too soon last year, proved to be the difference this year. 

 

And ironically, while Bush showed flashes of brilliance last year as a freshman, AP burst on the scene and may've had the same effect on White that Williams & Co. had on Leinart last year.  That is, make it seem like his much-improved supporting cast was the real difference, not just the QB.  Last year, White was the guy doing it without a decent running game, and this year Leinart did it with brand new WRs and O-line.

 

And how they go in the draft doesn't really have much to do with it at all.  That is my two cents....throw all the stones you want, I won't reply...

 

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Couldn't agree more. Very well said.

[Dragon]

combined with the fact that some voters (tho not all) may've felt they gave it to White too soon last year, proved to be the difference this year. 

 

 

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I agree with all of what you wrote, but the above is what I believe to be the key factor.

[BIG A]

Hmmmm.  Maybe you should write your own draft book and see if you can sell ONE copy. 

 

Kiper projected that Leinart would be the 5th or 6th QB taken, but what the heck does he know?  Maybe you don't know as much as you think.

 

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Let's just agree to disagree.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

LMAO,  White lost every big game he is been in.  You are such an idiot.  He has beat top 5 ranked Texas 2 yrs in a row.  Just won the Big 12 Championship game that eluded the Sooners a yr ago when he was injured, and is about to avenge the Big one Jan 4.

 

This post had nothing to do with White or Peterson, but the fact Leinart is the 6th most deserving candidate of them all.  Bush Id say is 2nd or 3rd. definately more deserving than leinart. 

Come jan 5, you will be the laughing stock of this site.  Because OSU will be gone. So stick around, we have a crystal football we are going to be shoving down your throat for 12 months.  I cant wait.

 

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Funny, doesn't Mack Brown lose big games too? How is beating Texas that great of an accomplishment, when Wazzu proved they sucked. And as for this year, White finally won a Big 12 championship, nice job, too bad he's gonna lose to USC, and Michigan is also going to expose Texas, and all the sudden Oklahomas great schedule that you are so proud of, will look pathetic. Only good team that OU faced that will win is Texas A & M, as I think they'll beat Tennessee in the Cotton Bowl.

[GOB1]

I dont hate Leinart, but he will be a bust in the NFL, just as he will be Jan 4. Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown and Tim Couch were also first round picks. It doesnt mean Athena. Leinart will follow the same path. I gave LSU props last yr, they beat the Sooners and deserved the National Championship. USC beat a Athenay Michigan team in their backyard and were given half of LSus title, this yrs #1 all year, and now a Heisman Trophy. Thank GOD, they will have to earn something this yr, but they dont have it in them. Period.

 

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[/quote

 

 

PLEASE LEAVE NOW!!!!!!! I am now convinced u most be like 12 years old, some of the stuff u come up with. Give the guy credit. We all know the heisman trophy doesnt mean anything when it comes to the NFL. Hell some guys that won it, didnt even play pro ball. As the case for your 12yr senior.

[Perchoutofwater]

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time the Heisman Trophy winner won the National Championship? Also, when was the last time a National Champion QB went to the NFL, and was a star?

[theeohiostate]

I dont hate Leinart, but he will be a bust in the NFL, just as he will be Jan 4. Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown and Tim Couch were also first round picks. It doesnt mean Athena. Leinart will follow the same path. I gave LSU props last yr, they beat the Sooners and deserved the National Championship. USC beat a Athenay Michigan team in their backyard and were given half of LSus title, this yrs #1 all year, and now a Heisman Trophy. Thank GOD, they will have to earn something this yr, but they dont have it in them. Period.

 

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[/quote

PLEASE LEAVE NOW!!!!!!! I am now convinced u most be like 12 years old, some of the stuff u come up with. Give the guy credit. We all know the heisman trophy doesnt mean anything when it comes to the NFL. Hell some guys that won it, didnt even play pro ball. As the case for your 12yr senior.

 

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Hey , GOB1

 

You should thank Sarge, if it weren't for him many of us would be againt Michigan in the Rose Bowl instead of for them

 

This idiot has turned EVERY logical huddler that is not a Big 12 fan against the Big 12 for several years...........and i think he gets a whack out of it, figuratively.

[theeohiostate]

I rule the world.  Because of me OSU fans now love Michigan.  LMMFAO.......

 

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Because you get a whack out it?

 

Adolescence . It's okay, everybody did it at one time.

 

 

Most of us did stop after the 5th grade however...........just exactly how old are you anyways? ..............FIGHTENING !!

[GOB1]

I dont hate any football program, No question I like to see Michigan beat every team they play, As for as Ohio State, nothing but respect!! And Im sure its the same for them. Without them there wouldnt be the greatest college football rival.

The only team, I really dont respect is MIchigan State, there was a day when I would route for all big ten teams, when playing outside the big ten, but after there coach NICK SABAN, didnt even vote Michigan #1 in 97, voted for Nebraska a team not in our conference, things changed. Saban had the Spartans on the right track, making our in state rivals a true game, but he bolted to Lsu, because he couldnt handle being second best.

[GOB1]

Its about respect, Oh thats right Nebreska is from the big12. Nebreska got a share for 2 reasons, 1 Osborns last game, and 2, they had to for tv ratings. Hell, I remember it well, I think his name was Scott frost, begging for the trophy. I

dont know who would have won, but with the current system at that time

it was a split. And to be honest it didnt matter.

And yes any coach, in any conference should support there conference. I dont think I need to tell u, the history on Saban, his track record speaks for itself.

Better yet, u preach on this board day in and day out how great the big 12 is, and how poor every conference is compared to yours RIGHT. That would be like ,Stoops saying after he loss last year, the best confernce is the Sec. Yea that helps recruiting. COMMON SENSE SARGE!!! TRY IT!

 

Ive read your theory on coaches before, Stoops great, saban bad....Stoops great, Carrol bad. What will u ever do if Stoops bolts to the Nfl? I know youll hire the best coach around, why because Sarge said so. What a joke u are.

[Phat1]

I dont hate any football program, No question I like to see Michigan beat every team they play, As for as Ohio State, nothing but respect!! And Im sure its the same for them. Without them there wouldnt be the greatest college football rival.

The only team, I really dont respect is MIchigan State, there was a day when I would route for all big ten teams, when playing outside the big ten, but after there coach NICK SABAN, didnt even vote Michigan #1 in 97, voted for Nebraska a team not in our conference, things changed. Saban had the Spartans on the right track, making our in state rivals a true game, but he bolted to Lsu, because he couldnt handle being second best.

 

 

Husker fan here. I have to say Nebraska would have probably beaten up on Michigan. I just don't think that Michigan could have handled their option game that year.

 

But, I'll also have to say that if Neb and Penn St. had played in 94, odds are my Huskers would have lost.

Edited December 16, 2004 by Phat1