Coffeeman Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Good thing Jason White doesn't have to rely on his sociology degree to make money. The sad thing is, most (66%) of the Sooners must think they'll also make it big in the NFL.... ------------------------------------------------ In a study of graduation rates of the 56 bowl teams released Monday, USC easily beat out the other two national title contenders. The Trojans graduated 61 percent of their football players in the years studied, compared to 40 percent for LSU and 33 percent for Oklahoma. The numbers are an average for the freshman classes that entered school from 1993-94 to 1996-97. Students are given six years to graduate, but athletes who transfer -- even if they are in good academic standing -- count against a school. "If there were a Top 10 ranking for graduation rates among bowl teams, Northwestern and Boston College would have played for the national championship," said Richard Lapchick, who authored the study for The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport at the University of Central Florida. Northwestern had an 83 percent graduation rate, followed by Boston College (79), Virginia (76), Tulsa (66) and Oregon (64). The Trojans had the highest rate for any school in a BCS bowl game, while Oklahoma had the lowest. The rate for the Sooners are for classes that entered school before Bob Stoops became coach in 1999. Arkansas and Fresno State were tied for the lowest rate at 26 percent. ------------------------------------------------ Can't really brag about my Trojans 61% either - still pitiful. Guess the big question is: should we care? I mean, "its all about the Benjamins", and its just part of the overall sports entertainment business, right? These players are just actors on a stage, they get their glory in the here-and-now. Who cares what happens to them when the business is done with them?? I can understand OK and AR schools having this problem, because of the local gene pool deficiencies, but Fresno State? Almost makes me ashamed to be a Californian, but then I remember who our governor is, and I can smile again. CA's new motto: "Our governor can beat up your Governor!" Yes, I am in an extremely cynical mood today, just before Xmas..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Coffeeman: compared to 40 percent for LSU and 33 percent for Oklahoma... I'm surprised it's that HIGH. eek! The administrators of these (and other similar) universities should hang their heads in shame. Disgusting and disturbing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSooner Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 As I posted on KS2000's thread (which I assume he deleted because he saw this was BS), this is total BS. If you would like to see the real graduation statistics, please look below. Since Bob Stoops has arrived, OU's graduation rates have skyrocketed. OU now ranks #2 in the Big 12 with a graduation rate of 65%. I would strongly suggest that you either have an original thought and not just copy and past an article that is wrong, or call me sily call me rude, but call me please. "Oklahoma Leads Big XII in Graduation Rates" NCAA (Most Recent) Official Stats "Oklahoma Wins High Marks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thanks Dragon for defending my honor. The article was not wrong McSooner, just from different time periods as Dragon points out. And why are you so defensive? I still think 61% for USC and even 65% (your OU stat) are bad if these kids are given scholarships to go to school! (That's right- lest we forget, the $ is for attending school, not for playing ball. If we were just "paying them" for playing ball, they'd be pros already, wouldn't they?) Many poor parents would kill for the chance for their son/daughter to be given a good shot at bettering themselves, but these kids are thowing it away. Pathetic... Must be a touchy area that OU fans are ashamed to discuss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Coffeeman: Thanks Dragon for defending my honor. The article was not wrong McSooner, just from different time periods as Dragon points out. And why are you so defensive? I still think 61% for USC and even 65% (your OU stat) are bad if these kids are given scholarships to go to school! (That's right- lest we forget, the $ is for attending school, not for playing ball. If we were just "paying them" for playing ball, they'd be pros already, wouldn't they?) Many poor parents would kill for the chance for their son/daughter to be given a good shot at bettering themselves, but these kids are thowing it away. Pathetic... Must be a touchy area that OU fans are ashamed to discuss... Don't get used to it, it pains me to agree with a USC fan. wink :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSooner Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 And why are you so defensive? Because I'm sick and ****ing tired of all of the OU bashing for the sake of that only. As far a graduation rate go, If you want to look back a 1993, fine. since Stoops has been at OU, the grad. rates has gone up significantly. Also, I'd be willing to bet that if you look at graduation rates of the general public, 65% would blow the doors off of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 I'm not bashing OK, just putting the social issue out there for discussion, which you'd know if you'd paid attention to my main point. That is, 60-65% might be good vs. the whole population at all colleges combined, but I bet it pales when compared to those in big-time schools on an academic scholarship. (Stats anyone? I'll bet its up around 90%...) These kids have got to realize that the vast majority of them will NOT get to the pros, and even those who do will be very lucky to make enough money before an injury ends their $ gravy train. They'd better get a good education while they can for free and be ready to be a productive member of society with a real job and stable home life, etc. And do not pick a throwaway major like Sociology like JWhite did, or you'll be looking for some low-paying job to start with out of school. There is no reason for a BS/BA degree holder (especially if in a business discipline,) to not be making $30-40K right out of college in today's market, if not more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSooner Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 but I bet it pales when compared to those in big-time schools on an academic scholarship. Well of course they will pale in comparison. So will almost any group you can think of including basketball players, fraternaties, and band members. I bet accountants can kick the arse of a sociologist in the CPA exam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Miscreant Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Coffeeman: (That's right- lest we forget, the $ is for attending school, not for playing ball. If we were just "paying them" for playing ball, they'd be pros already, wouldn't they?) Many poor parents would kill for the chance for their son/daughter to be given a good shot at bettering themselves, but these kids are thowing it away. Pathetic... Can you say ROSE TINTED GLASSES? These kids aren't getting money for "attending school" they are getting money to attend that school to play football. Many of these players are from poor parents and others simply have, in college terms, questionable academic prowess and wouldn't even be in school if it weren't for football. You are assuming that just because you are given an opportunity that you will be able to make the best of it. In making this assumption, you are suggesting that earning a college degree is easy. For some of us, it's simply a matter of putting in the time but for others it's a real struggle, regardless of why or how they got in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackshi17 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 The Academic Achievement Award was originally established by the College Football Association in 1981 and was presented annually by the Touchdown Club of Memphis through 1997. The award recognized the CFA-member I-A institution with the highest graduation rate among members of its football team. The award and honorable mention plaques were presented each year at the CFA’s annual meeting in Dallas. With the demise of the CFA, the American Football Coaches Association has stepped in to continue to present the award as well as conduct a graduation rate survey similar to the one done each year by the CFA. 2002 Winner: Northwestern Northwestern University will receive the 2002 American Football Coaches Association’s Academic Achievement Award, which is presented annually by the Touchdown Club of Memphis. The school recorded a 100 percent graduation rate for members of its football squad when all members of its freshman class of 1996-97 earned a degree. Northwestern’s win is the second for the school and it has been honored every year it has been eligible for the award. The school also earned the honor in 1998 with a 100 percent rate. Northwestern earned honorable mention honors in 1999, 2000 and 2001. Prior to 1998, the award honored only members of the College Football Association. Twenty-four other institutions will be recognized for graduating 70 percent or more of their football players, including eight institutions that had a graduation rate of 90 percent or better. Schools in the 90 percent group are: Boston College, Duke, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Penn State, Rice, Vanderbilt and Western Michigan Schools in the 70 percent category are: Ball State, Central Michigan, East Carolina, Florida, Hawaii, Indiana, Kansas State, Miami (Fla.), Mississippi State, SMU, Syracuse, Texas Tech, Utah State, Virginia, Virginia Tech and Wisconsin. Most Awards: Duke has won or shared the Academic Achievement Award 10 times. Notre Dame is second with six awards. Boston College has been honored three times. No other school has been honored more than twice. Honorable Mention: Virginia has earned honorable mention status 17 times. Notre Dame and Rice have earned honorable mention status 15 times. Top Conference: ACC schools have been honored 71 times since the award was created in 1981. The ACC’s 13 honors are the most among current Division I-A conferences. Since 1998, when the award was expanded to include all Division I-A conferences, Big 10 schools have been honored 23 times, with Northwestern winning the award twice. Duke Wins 2003 Academic Achievement Award Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 I was waiting for someone to bring up the "rose-colored glasses" issue - it took longer than expected for it to show up. As a recovering cynic, I know what the system has become, and that is why this topic - you are a sharp one indeed! Is the current system OK for everyone, (i.e. kids really just there to keep the big teams rolling in the $) or does it leave some behind that it should not? You seem resigned to what is, not what can be, and don't seem to care enough to do something about it. I'm humbly suggesting that it needs to somehow be changed to force more kids to get a real education while they are there on the athletic free-ride, as difficult as that may be for some of them. My tax dollars are paying for those scholarships in the state schools, and my contributions to USC help on the private school side - shouldn't I have some say in the system, here in America? The only thing I can think of is to get them in the pocketbook - that means taking away a certain # of scholarships until grad rates get to a certain point, say 75% for all. Is that just crazy? Any other ideas? Does anyone else care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Miscreant Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 No, the current system is not ok. As a matter of fact, I agree with much of your last post. Somebody should be held accountable on some level. But then again, regardless of why they are in school some kids just can't hack it. As far as their being pros, I believe they already are. Getting paid, and they are, to do something makes you a professional. They don't necessarily get cash in their hands but they get free meals, free tuition, free books, free room and board. Add those things up for a year and then someone tell me again how they need to be compensated for their efforts. Not to mention the fact that most of them would never even be considered by the NFL if not for the exposure of playing in a college football program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Coffee, I posted this in the other thread that got deleted. My college (Division III Case Western Reserve) cross country and track coach, Bill Sudeck (who was also the basketball coach) had this idea he liked to call Proposition Sudeck. Each school got a number of scholarships calculated based on the amount of athletes that graduated the program in 5 years. If a guy went pro, dropped out, or otherwise did not graduate, you lost a scholarship. If a walk-on played and graduated, you could earn a scholarship back. He wanted this applied to basketball but it would work the same for football and other sports. I think it's a terrific, logical idea. Of course it would never get implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansas State 2000 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 McSooner: As I posted on KS2000's thread (which I assume he deleted because he saw this was BS) ... I did deleted it as I did not know if the information and figures were 100% correct. I did not want to post even slightly inaccurate information in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSooner Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Richard Lapchick (??), the UCF professor who is cited and quoted regarding OU's supposed "terrible grad rate", recanted in two local radio interviews regarding the Sooners and admitted that the numbers were ancient and NOT reflective of OU's current situation. This gentleman is the source behind the Boston Globe article that I believe KS2000 originally posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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