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Corraling the QB comparisons


Caveman_Nick
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There are many QB comparisons that get thrown around. Some people like them and some are annoyed, and it's hard to get people to agree.

 

Post your QB comparisons here for discussion.

 

The obvious ones are:

 

Brady - Montana

Brady - Aikman

Manning - Marino

McNabb - Elway

 

So what about:

McNair?

Green?

Vick?

Culpepper?

Pennington?

Delhomme?

 

Or from the older days:

Jim Kelley?

Boomer Esiason?

Steve Young?

Phil Sims?

Bradshaw?

 

Can you draw lines between the generations?

 

The Manning - Marino and Brady - Montana (Or for the people that don't want to give him that much credit, Aikman) comparisons are a bit over done.

 

McNabb's play does remind me of Elway's, with just a little less accuracy on the ball. Plays on a good team, carries the offense, and as of yet just hasn't been given the skill player compliment to get the job done. He is evasive in the same fashion, and just as tough.

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Cade McNown to Peter Tom Willis

Steve Stenstrum to Moses Moreno

Steve Walsh to Jim Miller

Jonathon Quinn to Will Furrer

Shane Mattews to Danny Wuerfel

Craig Krenzel to Henry Burris

 

 

Ooops....sorry about that---were we comparing sucky Bears QB's to other sucky Bears QB's???

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McNair - Randall Cunningham

Green - Bledsoe

Vick - Plummer (good day), Kordell (bad day)

Culpepper - Cunningham

Pennington - Dan Fouts

Delhomme - ditto

McNabb - Steve Young/John Elway

 

Or from the older days:

Jim Kelley - Marino/Fouts

Boomer Esiason - Bledsoe

Steve Young - Fran Tarkenton

Phil Sims - Aikman

Bradshaw- Jim McMahon

Edited by Bill Swerski
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IHMO Brady is a much better passer than Bradshaw was, but the two do share the same kind of on the field grit.

 

676408[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

I made the comparison based on the facts that (1) both have won numerous superbowl rings based largely on the strength of their defenses, and (2) I don't like either one of them.

 

:D

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McNair = Archie Manning -tough, very good arm, poor supporting cast

Green = Dan Pastorini - middle of the road, nondescript QB

Vick = Randall Cunningham - before Randall learned how to play QB

Culpepper = Steve Bartkowski - I don't know, it just popped into my head

Pennington = Browning Nagle - the last great Jets QB, almost

Delhomme = Ken Stabler - is Delhomme lefty? I know Snake was.

Edited by Vet
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I think the truly, truly great QBs aren't the "next" or "first" anything, they are who they are.

 

My "next Boomer Esiason" thread was an (apparently subtle) rip on Boomer's dogging of Marino/Manning - y'know, because Boomer apparently had a better career than EITHER. :D

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I think the truly, truly great QBs aren't the "next" or "first" anything, they are who they are.

 

My "next Boomer Esiason" thread was an (apparently subtle) rip on Boomer's dogging of Marino/Manning - y'know, because Boomer apparently had a better career than EITHER. :D

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Put some ice on that ego, there, Chavez. I started the thread because this discussion about comparisons comes up ALL THE TIME. I can see how you would mistake yourself for the inspiration though... :D

 

But if you have a real opinion, please share...

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That IS the opinion - Manning isn't the "next" Marino, he's Manning. His career might have a similar arc, but I think he's pretty well established that aside from being a pocket passer with playoff struggles, he's got a somewhat different game. They were BOTH predated by Dan Fouts - screw that, Jim Hart! - so we should really boot Marino out of the occasion and call every passer running a high-octane offense who doesn't win in the SB "The Next Jim Hart". (John Hadl might fit as well)

 

Same thing with Brady/Montana - let's stop the talk right friggin' now; first things first, Montana was the raison d'etre of the 9er first SB win (because it sure as hell wasn't Earl Cooper), Brady was just ridin' shotgun on the Belicheck Express. Pats "Team D" should've been the MVP of that SB.

 

And in most/many cases you're at best shoe-horning the guy into the archetype. Is Favre "the next Bradshaw"? They've got plenty of similar characteristics, but their careers have plenty of DISsimilarities as well.

 

It's certainly fine to say Brady/Manning REMIND you of Montana/Marino in whatever quality, but for every quality they share, there's going to be a quality they differ in.

 

These comparisons are bogus for the most part.

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That IS the opinion - Manning isn't the "next" Marino, he's Manning. His career might have a similar arc, but I think he's pretty well established that aside from being a pocket passer with playoff struggles, he's got a somewhat different game. They were BOTH predated by Dan Fouts - screw that, Jim Hart! - so we should really boot Marino out of the occasion and call every passer running a high-octane offense who doesn't win in the SB "The Next Jim Hart". (John Hadl might fit as well)

 

Same thing with Brady/Montana - let's stop the talk right friggin' now; first things first, Montana was the raison d'etre of the 9er first SB win (because it sure as hell wasn't Earl Cooper), Brady was just ridin' shotgun on the Belicheck Express. Pats "Team D" should've been the MVP of that SB.

 

And in most/many cases you're at best shoe-horning the guy into the archetype. Is Favre "the next Bradshaw"? They've got plenty of similar characteristics, but their careers have plenty of DISsimilarities as well.

 

It's certainly fine to say Brady/Manning REMIND you of Montana/Marino in whatever quality, but for every quality they share, there's going to be a quality they differ in.

 

These comparisons are bogus for the most part.

678377[/snapback]

 

:D

 

You playin' the role of Fun Police today?

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:D

 

You playin' the role of Fun Police today?

678381[/snapback]

"You are the f*cking FUN POLICE! Back off, fun pig! You wanna fun-f*cking-arrest me? You better get a fun-f*cking-warrant! Otherwise, stay outta my... fun-f*cking-face!" :D

Edited by Chavez
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Same thing with Brady/Montana - let's stop the talk right friggin' now; first things first, Montana was the raison d'etre of the 9er first SB win (because it sure as hell wasn't Earl Cooper), Brady was just ridin' shotgun on the Belicheck Express. Pats "Team D" should've been the MVP of that SB.

678377[/snapback]

 

Agreed that Montana was a much more effective QB than Brady in their first years. Brady threw one TD pass in the '01 playoffs and somehow became SB 36 MVP. :D That said, he developed into a very good QB shortly after and certainly did deserve the SB 38 MVP award.

 

If you'll recall, Montana's Super Bowl teams also had pretty *** good defenses (2nd, 1st, 8th, and 3rd in the league in '81, '84, '88, and '89, respectively). Brady's SB teams had similar defensive talent (8th, 1st, and 2nd in the league). I'm curious to see if Brady can take his team to The Show with, say, the 15th-ranked defense in the league.

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Agreed that Montana was a much more effective QB than Brady in their first years.  Brady threw one TD pass in the '01 playoffs and somehow became SB 36 MVP.  :D  That said, he developed into a very good QB shortly after and certainly did deserve the SB 38 MVP award.

 

If you'll recall, Montana's Super Bowl teams also had pretty *** good defenses (2nd, 1st, 8th, and 3rd in the league in '81, '84, '88, and '89, respectively).  Brady's SB teams had similar defensive talent (8th, 1st, and 2nd in the league).  I'm curious to see if Brady can take his team to The Show with, say, the 15th-ranked defense in the league.

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Does effective QB == better passer?

 

I think that the debate surrounding Brady, and particularly the arguments from his supporters center around the concept that being an effective QB does not always mean being the best passer. It means running the offense, calling the plays, and executing the plays. It means running a good huddle, having a good report with your players, and being a good communicator. It means adjusting what needs to be adjusted on the field. It means understanding your own offense as well as understanding opposing defenses and what will be effective in the situation at hand.

 

I have a hard time agreeing that being a 'great' or 'effective' quarterback equated to throwing the winning TD pass. Passing is an important component of the job , but there is so much more to it than that. It was the Weakest part of Tom Brady's game in 2001 as a QB, but it is also something he has improved on massively. Accuracy and arm strength are much, much easier to improve than the mental and emotional aspects of the game. It is the latter part that earns Brady his comparisons with Montana, not a signature play.

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It means calling the plays

678439[/snapback]

 

Brady calls the plays? I thought that Weiss did and that Belichick gives him relatively little discretion in terms of calling audibles?

 

Agreed that being the best passer does not necessarily make one the best QB. Then again, being at least a "very good" passer is typically a requirement (e.g., Michael Vick). And, FWIW, nobody's saying that Brady isn't a "very good" passer.

 

The point of my last post was that guys like Brady and Montana have been aided significantly by consistently good defenses. It's a lot easier to win championships when your teammates on the other side of the ball can force turnover and keep you from playing from behind. Guys like Marino and Fouts, who were both great passers, didn't have that luxury.

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Brady calls the plays?  I thought that Weiss did and that Belichick gives him relatively little discretion in terms of calling audibles?

 

Agreed that being the best passer does not necessarily make one the best QB.  Then again, being at least a "very good" passer is typically a requirement (e.g., Michael Vick).  And, FWIW, nobody's saying that Brady isn't a "very good" passer.

 

The point of my last post was that guys like Brady and Montana have been aided significantly by consistently good defenses.  It's a lot easier to win championships when your teammates on the other side of the ball can force turnover and keep you from playing from behind.  Guys like Marino and Fouts, who were both great passers, didn't have that luxury.

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I am saying Brady wasn't a very good passer in '01, and that he still did a great job. He has gotten better, and I would rate him as a capable NFL thrower. He's not a spectaculaer thrower, but he does occasionally make a great throw.

 

In terms of calling the plays, of course I was referring to calling audibles at the line. Belichick and Weis do not give him Manning-like freedom, but he does audible and check down at the line. Think about the Givens TD in the AFC CHampionship game. He has the freedom to make adjustments as he sees fit. Just because he isn't doing it madcap doesn't mean he's not involved.

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I am saying Brady wasn't a very good passer in '01, and that he still did a great job.  He has gotten better, and I would rate him as a capable NFL thrower.  He's not a spectaculaer thrower, but he does occasionally make a great throw.

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Well, that depends on how you define "great job." If you mean "great job of not turning the ball over" or "great job for a guy with minimal NFL playing time," I agree.

 

That said, Brady did a "great job" in last year's Super Bowl by anyone's definition.

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