THE SIX KINGS Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 It takes at least three years to accurately assess a draft class.What follows is a breakdown of the 2002 first-round class now that it can be evaluated after three years.Blue chip indicates an elite talent – a difference maker who consistently makes big plays. Red chip indicates an impact player with starter-type production who can improve in at least one area. Purple indicates a solid starter you can win with and who usually gets the job done. Orange indicates backup production. Green indicates a player with upside but who can be a liability to put on the field. A plus or minus indicates that a player is on the verge of fitting into another category. 1. Houston Texans QB David Carr | Fresno State Improves as the talent around him improves, but expectations cannot be high with the number of times he has been on his back in his brief pro career. Very tough, smart and mature with fine poise. Will force passes and can still improve decision making, but he has proven to be very capable when he has protection. Evaluation: Red chip. 2. Carolina Panthers DE Julius Peppers | North Carolina Rare athlete for his size with the explosiveness and edge speed to dominate as a pass rusher. Has the athletic ability and body control to drop into coverage. Still growing as a pass rusher, and instincts are not where they could be, but has emerged as one of the top five defensive ends in football. Evaluation: Blue chip. 3. Detroit Lions QB Joey Harrington | Oregon Harrington has yet to prove he can be a consistent starter in three years at the helm of the West Coast offense. Has made strides every year, but is too streaky and doesn't drive the team downfield, panicking in the face of pressure and dumping the ball off too early. Mental toughness and accuracy must improve. Evaluation: Purple-minus. 4. Buffalo Bills OT Mike Williams | Texas Not a great athlete, but has made big strides under tutelage of Jim McNally. Can continue to improve in pass protection, but flashes ability to knock defenders off the ball as a run blocker. Evaluation: Red chip. 5. San Diego Chargers CB Quentin Jammer | Texas Imposes his will on receivers, but lacks great quickness and gets beat by double moves too often. Struggles matching up with speed and appears to lose confidence at times. Would like to see more hits on the ball. A starter with limitations. Conversion to safety could come sooner than later. Evaluation: Purple-plus. 6. Kansas City Chiefs DT Ryan Sims | North Carolina Production doesn't match ability, but got into training camp late as a rookie, has been hurt for the better part of two years and had to endure a defensive coaching change. Flashes ability, but growth has been stunted by outside factors and has yet to prove worthy of high choice. Jury is still out. Has upside. Evaluation: Orange-plus. 7. Minnesota Vikings OT Bryant McKinnie | Miami (Fla.) Too lazy and gets beat much more than a player with his athletic ability should, but he did finish last season strong. Has the size, natural athleticism and foot quickness to be dominant, but strength, conditioning and football demeanor are average. A very capable starter with upside. Evaluation: Purple-plus. 8. Dallas Cowboys S Roy Williams | Oklahoma Fearless tackler and terrorizing blitzer with outstanding instincts and football intelligence. Does not have great range and may never be great as a zone defender, but is a force for whom teams must scheme. Evaluation: Blue chip. 9. Jacksonville Jaguars DT John Henderson | Tennessee Does not have great initial quickness and will lose leverage, but he uses his long arms well to keep defenders off his body and shows more pass-rush moves than most defensive tackles. Evaluation: Red chip-plus. 10. Cincinnati Bengals OT Levi Jones | Arizona State Naturally athletic with the quickness and athletic ability to handle edge speed. Would like to see more passion and nastiness. Evaluation: Red chip-minus. 11. Indianapolis Colts DE Dwight Freeney | Syracuse Arguably the best pass rusher in football. Without question the most explosive off the corner. Speed-strength combination overcompensates for lack of size. Evaluation: Blue chip. 12. Arizona Cardinals DT Wendell Bryant | Wisconsin Was asked to take on blocks and two-gap early in his career after reporting to camp late, and it did not fit his strengths. Best at penetrating and playing in gaps and is better suited in Clancy Pendergast's defense. But after being suspended for the first four games last season, he never was able to get into rhythm. Could really emerge in fourth year, but he looks like a busted pick through three years. Evaluation: Orange. 13. New Orleans Saints WR Donte' Stallworth | Tennessee Very raw coming out of Tennessee, where he was simply able to run past defenders. Shows explosive speed to get separation, but has been slowed by hamstring injuries, lack of toughness and case of drops. Having to learn precise routes and get to the right spot seems to have affected concentration. Has largely underachieved after showing much promise as a rookie. Evaluation: Purple-plus. 14. New York Giants TE Jeremy Shockey | Miami (Fla.) Great athlete who makes a lot of plays, but has dropped a lot of clutch passes. Has limitations as a blocker. Evaluation: Red chip-plus. 15. Tennessee Titans DT Albert Haynesworth | Tennessee Dominant when he wants to be but has always relied too much on natural talent. Has never developed into a leader or consistent technician and loafs too much. Feast-or-famine type of player. Evaluation: Red chip. 16. Cleveland Browns RB William Green | Boston College Well built to break tackles and drive the pile but does not have great vision and bounces too many runs outside. Butch Davis' decision to pass on Clinton Portis proved costly. Evaluation: Orange. 17. Oakland Raiders CB Phillip Buchanon | Miami (Fla.) Buchanon is undersized and plays small, shying away from run support and getting beat too often. He has the cover skills and athletic ability to be used more than in a nickel role, but his game is best suited for it. Buchanon, now with the Texans, does have exceptional run instincts when he touches the ball. Evaluation: Purple. 18. Atlanta Falcons RB T.J. Duckett | Michigan State Would give defenses a headache if he were given 20-25 carries per game. Has served as an excellent complement to Warrick Dunn and combines surprising quickness with power to run inside. Would expect him to be more of a stone-cold blocker for his stature, but has shown enough to develop into a solid starter. Evaluation: Purple-plus. 19. Denver Broncos WR Ashley Lelie | Hawaii Took time to learn routes coming from a run-and-shoot offense and still struggles to beat defenders off the line, but he made more big plays in third year and began to realize potential. Evaluation: Red chip. 20. Green Bay Packers WR Javon Walker | Florida Has made steady progress every year, going from a shoddy route runner as a rookie to a polished go-to guy. Not very explosive but has the size, strength and ease of movement to create mismatches. Evaluation: Blue chip. 21. New England Patriots TE Daniel Graham | Colorado Natural athlete who can stretch the field and catch in traffic. Fine blocker and red-zone target. A solid starter who just started to show what he could do in his third year. Evaluation: Red chip. 22. New York Jets DE Bryan Thomas | UAB Ascending player who was around the quarterback a lot a year ago after seeing more action when John Abraham went down with injury. Evaluation: Purple-plus. 23. Oakland Raiders LB Napoleon Harris | Northwestern Started career like a ball of fire, unseating Greg Biekert for a starting job, but after undergoing a coaching change, being converted to an inside 3-4 linebacker and losing some knowledgeable veterans around him, the learning curve was too steep for him to overcome. Did not show the instincts to play inside last year. Traded to the Vikings and could break out after being moved back over the tight end. Evaluation: Red chip. 24. Baltimore Ravens S Ed Reed | Miami (Fla.) Has excellent ball skills, instincts and anticipation, Reed intuitively knows where the ball is, having become an excellent student of the game under the tutelage of Ray Lewis and Corey Fuller. Emerging as the No. 1 defensive playmaker in the league. Evaluation: Blue chip. 25. New Orleans Saints DE Charles Grant | Georgia Took his game to another level in third year, beating linemen with speed and power and playing the run very well. Some teams regard him among the top ends in football, although he can be a slow starter and disappear at times. Evaluation: Blue chip. 26. Philadelphia Eagles CB Lito Sheppard | Florida Very quick and athletic corner who does not play the deep ball very well and has benefited from the talent around him. Not great in run support and gets knocked around by bigger receivers. Evaluation: Red chip. 27. San Francisco 49ers CB Mike Rumph | Miami (Fla.) Has battled injuries, defensive coaching changes and position switches – all of which have caused him to struggle. His mental lapses and limited coverage skills are what make teams label him as a bust. Evaluation: Green. 28. Seattle Seahawks TE Jerramy Stevens | Washington Has taken time to get his life together and adjust to mental part of game, having yet to unseat former sixth-round selection Itula Mili for the starting job. Evaluation: Orange-plus. 29. Chicago Bears OT Marc Colombo | Boston College Knee problems date back to Boston College career and he's been inactive most of pro career. Until he proves otherwise, teams consider him a bust based on injury history entering fourth season. Evaluation: Green. 30. Pittsburgh Steelers OG Kendall Simmons | Auburn Powerful guard has battled through diabetes diagnosis, but started all 30 games in which he played before suffering ACL injury prior to last season and proved capable of being a solid starter. Evaluation: Purple. 31. St. Louis Rams LB Robert Thomas | UCLA Undersized, inconsistent and has never been able to stay healthy. Makes a lot of plays, but gives up as many, especially when he is run at. Still learning the game. Evaluation: Purple-minus. 32. Washington Redskins QB Patrick Ramsey | Tulane Opportunistic leader whose learning curve has been hindered by coaching turnover, offensive philosophy changes, revolving receivers, O-line injuries and sporadic playing time. Not very athletic, but has the tools to be a solid starter. Evaluation: Purple-plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostFace Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 1. Houston TexansQB David Carr | Fresno State Improves as the talent around him improves, but expectations cannot be high with the number of times he has been on his back in his brief pro career. Very tough, smart and mature with fine poise. Will force passes and can still improve decision making, but he has proven to be very capable when he has protection. Evaluation: Red chip. 3. Detroit Lions QB Joey Harrington | Oregon Harrington has yet to prove he can be a consistent starter in three years at the helm of the West Coast offense. Has made strides every year, but is too streaky and doesn't drive the team downfield, panicking in the face of pressure and dumping the ball off too early. Mental toughness and accuracy must improve. Evaluation: Purple-minus. 799136[/snapback] Alright, call me crazy, but I have to defend Joey Harrington in this instance. First of all, Carr and Harrington's numbers are very similar. | Harrington | Carr | ----------------------------------------- Comp %:| 54.2 | 56.8 | ----------------------------------------- Yards: | 8221 | 8136 | ----------------------------------------- TD/INT: | 48/50 | 34/42 | ------------------------------------------ Rating: | 67.2 | 72.5 | ------------------------------------------ Harrington hasn't had a great supporting cast either. Detroit's running game has been subpar until K. Jones, and he lost Charles Rogers two seasons in a row. Roy Williams was hurt the second half of last year. I don't think it's fair to label him a player who can win, but who's on the verge of being a back-up type player, and then to label Carr an impact player with starter-type production. Detroit should have a great offense this year: 3 top talent receivers and a great young rb in Kevin Jones. This will be the make or break year for Harrington. He won't have any excuses if he can't get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Harrington will have more weapons this year and has to prove his worth now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Alright, call me crazy, but I have to defend Joey Harrington in this instance. First of all, Carr and Harrington's numbers are very similar. | Harrington | Carr | ----------------------------------------- Comp %:| 54.2 | 56.8 | ----------------------------------------- Yards: | 8221 | 8136 | ----------------------------------------- TD/INT: | 48/50 | 34/42 | ------------------------------------------ Rating: | 67.2 | 72.5 | ------------------------------------------ Harrington hasn't had a great supporting cast either. Detroit's running game has been subpar until K. Jones, and he lost Charles Rogers two seasons in a row. Roy Williams was hurt the second half of last year. I don't think it's fair to label him a player who can win, but who's on the verge of being a back-up type player, and then to label Carr an impact player with starter-type production. Detroit should have a great offense this year: 3 top talent receivers and a great young rb in Kevin Jones. This will be the make or break year for Harrington. He won't have any excuses if he can't get it done. 799227[/snapback] Thanks for doing this Ghost as I was ready to do the same until I read yours. No way can Carr be considered a 'red chip'. They have both been mediocre at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilly Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 This will be the make or break year for Harrington. He won't have any excuses if he can't get it done. Attention Lions Homers: Isn't this what you were saying last year? What happens if one of those receivers goes down again this year. Are you going to use that as a built in excuse for Harrington every year? Wake up. This guy just doesn't have the skills to get it done as a starter. Is Joey a bad guy? Of course not. He's just not starting qb material. Stop defending this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shot_Kings Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Attention Lions Homers: Isn't this what you were saying last year? What happens if one of those receivers goes down again this year. Are you going to use that as a built in excuse for Harrington every year? Wake up. This guy just doesn't have the skills to get it done as a starter. Is Joey a bad guy? Of course not. He's just not starting qb material. Stop defending this guy. 800001[/snapback] Isn't this what people where saying about Drew Brees last year? Hasn't anyone learned that it takes 3-4 years for any young QB (not named Peyton Manning) to develop in the capable NFL starter? When you (foolishly IMHO) invest a high pick on a college QB, you must be ready to accept that it is going to take a long time for the player to grow into the job - longer if the team is bad to begin with. Anyone who thinks that a 21 year old college kid is going to save their NFL franchise right out of the gate is delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Culpepper did a pretty good job in his second year coming in after sitting the pine for only one year... McNabb has been a pro for what, six years...and four NFC title games and a Super Bowl? And then there's that Brady guy... PS - I know they are not the 'norm'...but, then again, guys like Trent Green (who sit the pine for 4-6yrs without hardly a single snap and then come in like he did in WAS about five or six years ago and LIGHT IT UP) aren't the norm either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 (edited) what are the chances that harrington won't be the starter midway through the season? I would say fairly good. what are the chances carr won't be the starter midway through the season? barring injury, close to 0%. Edited May 2, 2005 by Jackass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Come on, Im not a Carr fan, but lets get real. Houston runs the ball with D Davis 30-35 times a game, and Carr was teh 1st pick of an expansion team, with a Ol that landed him the most sacked QB in NFL history his rookie yr. Carr is a Troy Aikman like player who will never put up great stats as the scheme of the offense is run, run, pass. Lets put attempts in there and see how this shakes out, plus how many games has Carr missed because of injuries. Just to subjective to compare those stats alone, without seeing all the numbers. 32 out of 32 Gms would take Carr over Harrington if both were coming out in next yrs draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 (edited) IMO carr is twice the qb harrington is. at least. edit: i remember wanting the broncos to take ed reed so f'n badly Edited May 2, 2005 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSULions Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 (edited) 2. Carolina PanthersDE Julius Peppers | North Carolina Rare athlete for his size with the explosiveness and edge speed to dominate as a pass rusher. Has the athletic ability and body control to drop into coverage. Still growing as a pass rusher, and instincts are not where they could be, but has emerged as one of the top five defensive ends in football. Evaluation: Blue chip. 3. Detroit Lions QB Joey Harrington | Oregon Harrington has yet to prove he can be a consistent starter in three years at the helm of the West Coast offense. Has made strides every year, but is too streaky and doesn't drive the team downfield, panicking in the face of pressure and dumping the ball off too early. Mental toughness and accuracy must improve. Evaluation: Purple-minus. 799136[/snapback] This was the first pick of the Fox - Hurney combo in Carolina and a HUGE pick for them coming off a 1 - 15 season. Many pundits were not sure about Peppers when he came out of UNC and thought the Panthers should take a look at Joey Harrington after Weinke faltered in his first season as a starter. I thought Peppers was the right pick back them and he certainly has shown he is a top DE and will be a stud for many years (barring injury). I watched the Panthers - Falcons game last year and just watched him pluck a fumble out of mid air with one hand and streak down the field to tie up the game in the 4th quarter.... Too bad Vick made an similar unbelievable play at the end to tie the game with his 12 yd run with his knee about 6 inches off the grass for 3 yards to put the game into OT. At least, the Panthers made the right call that year and put the D on track to have a solid core in place to improve the D and the get our team on the right track after Siefert lost his way. Edited May 2, 2005 by PSULions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 This was the first pick of the Fox - Hurney combo in Carolina and a HUGE pick for them coming off a 1 - 15 season. Many pundits were not sure about Peppers when he came out of UNC and thought the Panthers should take a look at Joey Harrington after Weinke faltered in his first season as a starter. I thought Peppers was the right pick back them and he certainly has shown he is a top DE and will be a stud for many years (barring injury). I watched the Panthers - Falcons game last year and just watched him pluck a fumble out of mid air with one hand and streak down the field to tie up the game in the 4th quarter.... Too bad Vick made an similar unbelievable play at the end to tie the game with his 12 yd run with his knee about 6 inches off the grass for 3 yards to put the game into OT. At least, the Panthers made the right call that year and put the D on track to have a solid core in place to improve the D and the get our team on the right track after Siefert lost his way. 800511[/snapback] Peppers was also a popular pick as well. Things have worked out well for us in the draft these last couple of years. I must say that I'm impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potman Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Lelie over Javon Walker and Ed Reed among others....somebody put a gun to my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Lelie over Javon Walker and Ed Reed among others....somebody put a gun to my head. 800561[/snapback] Talk about Monday morning QBing. I remember this pick well and Lelie was considered the better receiver on every draft board. Now the argument between Reed and Lelie, that's a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gspot Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Come on, Im not a Carr fan, but lets get real. Houston runs the ball with D Davis 30-35 times a game, and Carr was teh 1st pick of an expansion team, with a Ol that landed him the most sacked QB in NFL history his rookie yr. Carr is a Troy Aikman like player who will never put up great stats as the scheme of the offense is run, run, pass. Lets put attempts in there and see how this shakes out, plus how many games has Carr missed because of injuries. Just to subjective to compare those stats alone, without seeing all the numbers. 32 out of 32 Gms would take Carr over Harrington if both were coming out in next yrs draft. 800277[/snapback] Ok, I agree, but the same can be said for Harrington as well. Harrington's #1 receiver for parts of the season was Reggie Swinton, nuff said. Everyone keep saying he has weapons, but also fails to realize it takes WR's 3 years to be polished and learn the game. Culpepper and Manning both came to a team with experienced receivers, with little turn-over regarding offensive staff. Rogers has only played a handful of games, Williams missed nearly all of last season, and Mike Williams is a rookie. All 3 can be considered rookies and none of them have even played together or with Harrington for any considerable amount of time! Now, everyone just says "Now he has weapons, no excuses" What? Shouldn't the pundits and fans at least expect the players to play at least half a season together before expecting the offense to gel? When you also factor in Harrington's change in coaches, offensive coordinators, and lack of quality RB, it becomes even more ludacris to judge his play based on his first few years. For anyone to be calling Mike Williams a weapon already is just ridiculous. My heavens, Reggie Swinton was a top receiver for Detroit last year! Where are all these weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Ok, I agree, but the same can be said for Harrington as well. Harrington's #1 receiver for parts of the season was Reggie Swinton, nuff said. Everyone keep saying he has weapons, but also fails to realize it takes WR's 3 years to be polished and learn the game. Culpepper and Manning both came to a team with experienced receivers, with little turn-over regarding offensive staff. Rogers has only played a handful of games, Williams missed nearly all of last season, and Mike Williams is a rookie. All 3 can be considered rookies and none of them have even played together or with Harrington for any considerable amount of time! Now, everyone just says "Now he has weapons, no excuses" What? Shouldn't the pundits and fans at least expect the players to play at least half a season together before expecting the offense to gel? When you also factor in Harrington's change in coaches, offensive coordinators, and lack of quality RB, it becomes even more ludacris to judge his play based on his first few years. For anyone to be calling Mike Williams a weapon already is just ridiculous. My heavens, Reggie Swinton was a top receiver for Detroit last year! Where are all these weapons. 800601[/snapback] Joey Harrington is not a very good NFL quarterback. He plays in a WCO, and his completion percentages are low. A good quarterback doesn't need to have Pro Bowl wide receivers to play well. I've watched nearly every Lions game that Joey's played in. He doesn't have the vision or the mind for the game, from what I've seen. He seems to think throwing to his RB on 3rd and 14 is an acceptable option, because that's what he does every frickin' time. Even after Kevin Jones was tearing it up in the last half of last season, Joey couldn't pick up the slack when needed. The expectations are high, as well they should be. With the amount of money and high draft choices invested in this offense, it should be on par with Minnesota and St. Louis. Anything short of that is a failure. There is no time to allow for Harrington to "gel"... if the offense isn't performing due to poor quarterbacking (like last year), Garcia should be handed the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 A good quarterback doesn't need to have Pro Bowl wide receivers to play well.800637[/snapback] See: Trent Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shot_Kings Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 See: Trent Green 800702[/snapback] So he needs a Pro Bowl TE, RB, & offensive linemen instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 So he needs a Pro Bowl TE, RB, & offensive linemen instead? 800718[/snapback] then there's the question of how "well" green actually plays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 then there's the question of how "well" green actually plays 801279[/snapback] hes won me 3 FF champoinships the last 2 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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