Horse collar tackle

[jackshi17]

This is a really bad idea.

15 yards and it still could cause a serious injury

 

 

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3487642

[BS Miscreant]

Roy Williams Rule

 

As discussed in thread a while back(see above link), it is clear what football fans think about this rule.

[CaptainHook]

I thought it was a penalty if you pulled them down from behind and landed on the back of their legs. You're telling me anytime you get pulled down from behind by grabbing the collar it's a penalty? And if the guy is in the "open field", wouldn't a 15 yard penalty be better than a TD, if it's the only way you can get him down? What defines "open field"? Like I said in the other thread, this rule is stupid.

[cheezhed]

Hell, u might as well make it 2-hand touch!!!

[gilthorp]

An idiotic rule....plain and simple.

[Rovers]

This is a calculated way to tackle someone with the intent to injure. Williams by himself put Calico, Owens and Musa Smith out for the season last year.... just ONE year! He almost put J lewis out for the year too, with his horse collar tackle. S Smith went down for the year too, with a broken leg on a horse collar tackle. How many more would he get this year? I wonder if he ever used this "technique" on J Jones in inter-squad scrimmages? Yer, right, let's legalise clipping, spearing, late hits and piling on too. Make them play without helmets, I mean that was real football. There are other ways to make a tackle after you've been beaten. If you can reach the pads, you can get to the waist and the legs, too.

 

Grabbing the pads will still be legal within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. We fantasy buffs need star players on the field as much as the NFL does. Why allow a tackling technique that is intended to cause injuries?

[gilthorp]

This is a calculated way to tackle someone with the intent to injure.

822224[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

You are too much, Rovers.

 

Let's just assume for a second, that an NFL player, has the time to set in motion, an approach in their mind "Hmmmm....how can I best injure this player right now".

 

The NFL game is played at such speed, there is no way one can design a way to hurt someone. Your position is ludicrous.

 

If they want to outlaw it, make it illegal in high school and college FIRST!

[Rovers]

So, yer sayin that after Williams put a few players out for the season with horse collars, he didnt KNOW it was a dangerous move? Do you think he remembers NOT to do it to Julie Jones in practice? Well, that makes sense, ok.

[Clubfoothead]

So, yer sayin that after Williams put a few players out for the season with horse collars, he didnt KNOW it was a dangerous move? Do you think he remembers NOT to do it to Julie Jones in practice? Well, that makes sense, ok. 

 

822298[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

That's Julius Jones. Quit being a baby. Nobody is allowed to tackle Jones in practice.

[BS Miscreant]

Rovers, you and the NFL are acting as if Williams invented this method of tackling for the sole purpose of injuring someone. People have been getting grabbed by the backs and sides of their collars for years, probably since the game was invented. One guy comes along who is fast to enough to catch you and strong enough to buckle your knees with the move and suddenly it's an awful, terrible thing. This rule is akin to the no dunking rule that was implemented by the NBA to put a dent in Wilt's physical dominance. Clearly the NBA eventually thought better of it. I know, I know, dunking doesn't injure people. But I've seen more tackles at or around the knees cause injury than I have collaring someone. You can't block at the knees in the open field, maybe they should crack down on tackling at the knees.

[jackshi17]

You can't block at the knees in the open field, maybe they should crack down on tackling at the knees.

 

822436[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Wait a minute now ...we must not get ahead of ourselves here..they have to have something to consider banning next year

[hooknladder]

Just another restriction on the defensive player...the NFL won't be happy until game scores are 99-100.

[Rovers]

I repeat the same question.... would he make that tackle on a teamate? If not, why not? Because it is quite likely to injure him, that's why. There, it isn't so hard to say. I've seen plenty of tackles where the defender could only get one hand on a guy and grab the pads to do it. That sort of tackle rarely resultsin an injury. When you can get two hands on the top of the shoulder pads, and yank as hard as you can, that is a clear intent to injure IMO. Just like picking up and then driving a QB to the ground and falling on him intentionally. There is nothing I hate worse than taking advantage of a defenseless player. I never played the game that way, I made my shots clean. I guess I expect others to play clean too. My bad.

[Clubfoothead]

I repeat the same question.... would he make that tackle on a teamate? If not, why not? Because it is quite likely to injure him, that's why. There, it isn't so hard to say. I've seen plenty of tackles where the defender could only get one hand on a guy and grab the pads to do it.  That sort of tackle rarely resultsin an injury. When you can get two hands on the top of the shoulder pads, and yank as hard as you can, that is a clear intent to injure IMO. Just like picking up and then driving a QB to the ground and falling on him intentionally. There is nothing  I hate worse than taking advantage of a defenseless player. I never played the game that way, I made my shots clean. I guess I expect others to play clean too. My bad.

822639[/snapback]

 

Give me a break.

 

What is defenseless.? I played free safety. Dude makes a catch and doesn't see me coming. He's defenseless and I made sure from then on he was looking for me when the ball was in the air. Happened like twice. Should I have waited until he saw me before leveling him?

[hooknladder]

-it's not your teamate. Of coarse your going to deal out more punishment to the oposing team. Intimidation and pain are part of the game and that's why we love it.-please for Christ's sake, let's stop the pussification of the game!

[Rovers]

Yea, you guys are right. Let's cripple all the WR's. The game would be much better that way. Oh, and club, when a player goes up for a ball, he's fair game. He knows it, too. Those are clean hits. Football is a violent sport. Injuries happen. The difference I see here is that it is a deliberate attempt to injure. My world was rocked, several times when I played. That is expected. I dished out some hits of my own, too. But, I was once brought to task because I didn't drive an opposing RB into the ground. He jumped, and landed in my arms, right on the sideline. I could have drilled him into the ground, and gotten away with it. I really could have f'd him up royally. He was defenseless. I could have lifted him and driven him into the ground with my helmet right into the breadbasket. Instead, I just dumped him over the sideline. I'd do the same thing again. BTW, two quarters later, I put him out of the game with a concussion, on a clean helmet to helmet hit. I guess I just have a different sense of what fair play is. My brand of football is not a Rosie O'Donnell version, hooknL. But, it's not supposed to be Rollerball, either.

[broncosn05]

That's gonna kill defenses.

[hooknladder]

I'm not suggesting that the horse-collar is to INTENTIALLY hurt someone...where it is typicaly employed is when the defender is beat. Taking away another option for a defender to make a play is lame.

[Rovers]

So, you are saying if a defender can get two hands on the pads up around the neck, this is the only way to make a tackle from behind?

[broncosn05]

So, you are saying if a defender can get two hands on the pads up around the neck, this is the only way to make a tackle from behind? 

 

822756[/snapback]

 

 

 

No but it is commponly used... If you were talking to me....

[gilthorp]

Give me a break.

 

What is defenseless.? I played free safety.  Dude makes a catch and doesn't see me coming.  He's defenseless and I made sure from then on he was looking for me when the ball was in the air.  Happened like twice.  Should I have waited until he saw me before leveling him?

 

822693[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

It depends on how much time you had to formulate a plan on injuring him...I'm curious of your thought process, since it seems pretty clear that by hitting him, you had a clear intent of injuring him.

[Rovers]

Nice gil, but no bannana. A player going after a ball KNOWS he's fair game. Hitting a reciever when he is in the act of catching the ball is expected. And, he isnt defenseless. It's his job to be aware of the players around him, and his decision to get alligator arms or not. Delivering a hit like that is far different than choosing a horse collar tackle. Don't give me this silliness about how fast the game is. I know how fast it is, and the mind speeds up too, when you play the game. Even Roy Williams has acknowledged that there are other ways to make a tackle from behind. This isn't much different han intentional open field clipping, with intent. Or a late hit out of bounds. Players can make those decisions, and do it on every down they play. The simple fact is, it's a dangerous move. Fortunately, 27 NFL owners agree with me. They want to protect thier teams, and thier investments in that team. Ha, I bet if the Cowboys had a WR that was worth worrying about, Jerry Jones would have been the standard bearer for this rule change! Taking Owens out for the season is a mighty game plan for winning the NFC East! :violin:

[BS Miscreant]

A player going after a ball KNOWS he's fair game. Hitting a reciever when he is in the act of catching the ball is expected. And, he isnt defenseless. It's his job to be aware of the players around him, and his decision to get alligator arms or not.

 

822841[/snapback]

 

 

 

A player running with the ball also KNOWS he's fair game. Hitting/tackling a receiver when he is running with the ball is expected. And, he isn't defenseless. It's his job to be aware of the players around him, and his decision to hit the deck or not.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, the argument to protect players is one thing but to call a ball carrier defenseless is just downright silly.

[Rovers]

Once you have two hands on his pads, he is absolutely defenseless, and to say otherwise is downright silly. The vote? 27 to 5. nuff said. :violin:

[gilthorp]

I guess what I'm saying is, the argument to protect players is one thing but to call a ball carrier defenseless is just downright silly.

 

822890[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Don't tell Rovers that. He stretches his argument to fit his point of view.

 

I have to assume, since Rovers knows how fast the game is, that he's played on the NFL level before, and because he knows how fast it is, I must believe he knows that Roy Williams goes out there to intentionally end player's seasons.

 

Whenever a person walks on the field of play, they get hurt. Most are bruises, oftentimes it is a cut, perhaps a sprain, or god forbid a break. Stingers, concussions, dislocations, it is a violent game.

 

Regardless of your point of view, Rovers...I believe it is an idiotic rule. You, however believe otherwise.

 

You almost sound like you're gloating when you say 27 NFL owners agree with you. Congratulations, go buy yourself something special!