Lets Talk About Marijuana

[spain]

I may have told you this story about how bogus drug tests are but it bears repeating. A close friend of mine is a big jewish dude from New York. He smokes alot of Josh Gordon. He knows that I dont use any drug except for copious amounts of alcohol. Anyway, he gets a new job and needs me to take the drug test for him because there is no way he could pass even with a whizzinator. Mind you, he looks nothing like me(he says he looks Jewish whatever the F* that means). I of course, am wasp. He is at least 3 inches taller than me and out weighs me by about 100 pounds. He has a beard, I dont.

 

I walk into the drug test center and hand the person behind the counter his drivers license. A big black lady behind the desk looks at me, then looks at the license. She looks back at me, then looks at the license, and busts out with a smile and says, "You have lost some weight". I say, "well, its an old picture and I have gone low carb since it was taken". She laughs and says, "does going low carb make you lose height too?" I laughed and made some comment. She told me to sit down until they called me name. Everything came out fine! She didnt care and neither would any minimum wage employee charged with taking folks drivers license at drug test center. Drug tests are a complete joke...

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Weed.  Chronic.  Pot.  Reefer.  Spliff.  Sherm.  Mary Jane.  Whatever you want to call it, why does the NFL care if athletes smoke Josh Gordon?  Who really cares?  Why do they have the same penalty for pot as they do for steroids, herione, cocaine, meth, and crack?  Does Josh Gordon enhance your performance in some way?  No!  Does it make you run faster?  No!  Jump higher?  No!  Make you stronger?  No!  Does it kill you?  No!

 

I could care less if Ricky Williams or Onterrio Smith smoke pot.  It doesnt give them an unfair advantage over anyone else in the game.  It doesnt affect their performance to any great degree(see NBA players).  Why even test for such a benign substance?  They dont test for alcohol useage.  I know pot is illegal, but so are alot of other things that arent tested for.  I just dont see the rationale for the testing for pot, and the harsh penalties for getting caught.  Discuss..

 

826258[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Not a pothead, but i can't believe that i actually agree with spain on something. Unless this is a fishing trip of course.

[spain]

Not a pothead, but i can't believe that i actually agree with spain on something. Unless this is a fishing trip of course.

 

826380[/snapback]

 

 

 

No fishing trip today. I am actually for the legalization of all drugs...

[Ursa Majoris]

What businesses are drug testing, other than the pre-employment screen or with some probable cause?

 

826331[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Construction, for sure.

[crispirons]

what were we talking about again???

[JoJoTheWebToedBoy]

Hey!  Potheads!  Put down the Cheetos and get off the couch!  I need some help here...

 

826353[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

I haven't smoked a bowl, or rolled a fatboy in years, but I'll help you out Spain. I grew up in San Francisco in the mid-sixties, and I have smoke more dope then most of you have ever seen. So I would consider myself an expert on the matter. Now, with that in mind let's shoot down a few myths:

 

1. It's a Gateway Drug - Bull, I've know hardcore dopers that skipped Josh Gordon, or didn't like it, and if it should of led anyone to bigger and better drugs, it would of been me, but it didn't.

 

2. Weed does not enhance anything. You can't smoke a bowl and excel at anything but sitting around.

 

3. Josh Gordon is not more harmful then alcohol, in fact, it's less harmful. Your average frat boy or girl isn't going to smoke themselves to death one night, but every year several die from alcohol. You are also not going to get aggressive on a pot high, but there sure are a lot of mean drunks.

 

There is nothing wrong with smoking a little Josh Gordon, it's no more dangerous then having a few drinks. The only true danger of Josh Gordon is the smoking part, that is just as bad as a cigarette, and yet that plant is legal. And it is the worst, and most dangerous drug out there.

 

Talk about bad for you, highly addictive, one of the hardest drugs to kick, and will eventually kill you and those around you. You want to ban something ban Tobacco.

To much money it that, huh. Well if you legalize Josh Gordon and treat it and tax it like hard liquor or tobacco, there's a major new source of revenue. And at the same time, you've crushed about a fourth of the major drug cartels, because you have taken away their market.

 

Now take those taxes, use them to fund "Real" drug treatment facilities and force convicted drug addicts into them before sending them to jail, and you will cut the cost of prisons, and maybe cleanup about 10% or more of the people that visit those facilities.

 

And finally, drug testing. I had a job that randomly drug tested me 3-4 times a year. I was told that it was a condition of the job, and the job warrented it. So I gave it up for the 22 years I was in that profession (and oddly enough, I didn't go thru withdrawal, but I damm sure did when I quit smoking cigarettes). So I would agree, there are some jobs that involve public safety that should test you,.

 

But if you don't have one of those jobs, then I believe a company doesn't have the right to test you. It's an invasion of privacy. What you do on you own time is NOT your employer's business. So unless they want to pay you for 24 hours a day, they have no right to intrude into your non-working hours.

 

Oh, and for those of you who want to use Healthcare costs as a reason for a company to pry into your personal life, then your giving them a green light to investigate everything. Smoker, nope can't hire you. Gay? dangerous lifestyle. Rock climber, mountain biker, snowboarder or skier, to much risk, can't hire you.

Etc,etc,etc.

 

There, coming down off my soapbox. Now, where's my bong......

[AtomicCEO]

I agree with you Spain that it doesn't give anyone an advantage, and that the NFL shouldn't care.

 

But, it's the NFL's call. They are a private organization, and they can do what they like. And with dipwads like Onterrio and Ricky Williams getting a lot of bad press when they get caught breaking the law, it's probably not a bad idea to try to prevent it.

[Big Score 1]

No fishing trip today.  I am actually for the legalization of all drugs...

826381[/snapback]

 

 

Yeah....right

[Chavez]

If this is the group you want tested spain, then you'll be glad to know that for the most part, at least the two of the three are.

 

Can't speak to heart surgeons, but I do know that the airlines have random drug screening, as do a lot of the trucking lines.

 

Economically, the break they get on their insurance, is large enough to off-set the costs of the random drug tests.......and then some.

 

826332[/snapback]

 

 

 

Random drug screening of CDL (Commercial Drivers License) holders by employers is a federal law.

[Chavez]

Well if you legalize Josh Gordon and treat it and tax it like hard liquor or tobacco, there's a major new source of revenue. And at the same time, you've crushed about a fourth of the major drug cartels,  because you have taken away their market.

 

Now take those taxes, use them to fund "Real" drug treatment facilities and force convicted drug addicts into them before sending them to jail, and you will cut the cost of prisons, and maybe cleanup about 10% or more of the people that visit those facilities.

 

826403[/snapback]

 

 

 

That's crazy talk, yer crazy.

 

As to "drug testing is a joke" - Josh Gordon is out of your system after about 24-48 hours if you aren't a habitual user; i.e., the more you smoke, the longer the traces stay in your system. If you enjoy the occasional joint you aren't in too much danger of getting caught by a urine test; fire up every night and you might have a problem. Just an FYI.

[sunysteelfly76]

Columbian Gold?

 

826341[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

No stems, no seed that you don't need, Acapulco Gold is some badass Josh Gordon.

 

 

My parents should have kept the Cheech and Chong album hidden.

[Chargerz]

The guys I want tested for drugs are the airplane pilot, my heart surgeon, and truck drivers.

 

826284[/snapback]

 

 

 

A very good point. I am totally in favor of random drug testing of doctors (ESPECIALLY surgeons of all types). I'm waiting for the federal government to initiate hearings on this very subject. I'm pretty sure it will eventually happen, but who knows when??

[Big Score 1]

We especially want spains heart surgeon to be tested.

 

spain, sorry to hear about your heart problems. Hope it's just something a bypass can take care of.

[spain]

We especially want spains heart surgeon to be tested.

 

spain, sorry to hear about your heart problems. Hope it's just something a bypass can take care of.

 

826480[/snapback]

 

 

 

Oh my heart is fine. Its Mandingo's heart that I am worried about...

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Spain, this is a very good discussion topic -- and I think you're absolutely right. In fact, nobody who disagrees with you has even offered a good argument. DMD came close, but as you pointed out, testing for Josh Gordon actually gives the league MORE negative publicity once the offenders' names become public.

 

As most of us know, the only negative side effect of habitual Josh Gordon use is general laziness. With that in mind, it's understandable why the NFL (team owners) might want to have players tested for pot. After all, with the complicated playbooks and gameplans, players need to be motivated and mentally alert in order to contribute.

 

However, even without "official" consequences for using Josh Gordon, it would still be the player who eventually pays the price for not being as dedicated as he could be. Players who don't give the necessary effort in practice or the film room end up getting released.

 

The more likely possibility is that most players who might smoke pot do so recreationally -- i.e., at home, they get stoned once in a while, but, when it's time to go to work, they study and practice as hard as the next guy.

 

Assuming the above is true, all drug suspensions do is prevent fans from seeing the best product on the field. Ricky Williams was a great player who would probably still be playing if it weren't for the NFL's Josh Gordon policy. Without the "pothead" concerns, Onterrio Smith would have been a 1st-round pick and would probably be a prominent starter somewhere. Instead, Miami fans were forced to endure the Sammy Morris/Travis Minor/Lamar Gordon manure pile, while sucking badly enough to ensure the 2nd overall pick. Minnesota fans had to suffer through injuries and RBBC, with no consistent rushing threat all year.

 

I don't care if players smoke pot on their off time. If it affects their ability to play well, teams will cut them. If it doesn't, then I'll know I'm watching the best players perform on Sundays.

Edited May 30, 2005 by Swiss Cheezhead

[Swiss Cheezhead]

As to "drug testing is a joke" - Josh Gordon is out of your system after about 24-48 hours if you aren't a habitual user; i.e., the more you smoke, the longer the traces stay in your system. If you enjoy the occasional joint you aren't in too much danger of getting caught by a urine test; fire up every night and you might have a problem. Just an FYI. 

 

826456[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Before anyone reads the above and decides to toke up, let me clarify...

 

There is VERY LITTLE known about the length of time marijuna stays in your system. Sometimes, heavy pot-smokers (several times a day) build up a sort of "immunity", meaning their bodies learn to process and "flush" the substance quickly. Other times, habitual users retain traces of THC for a very long time. On the flip side, some people who rarely smoke pot will sometimes process Josh Gordon just like other substances, like alcohol. In other cases, people who have taken a few hits from a joint once in a year have tested positive for THC 40 days later.

 

Researchers haven't been able to recognize any meaningful associations between frequency of use and the time it takes to fully exit the body. A few items of interest, none of which come within a mile of scientific fact:

 

-- On average, very rare users and extremely frequent users of Josh Gordon generally retain THC slighly longer than "occasional" users. As with many things, moderation is best.

 

-- The quickest Josh Gordon can be completely out of your system is about 24 hours. The longest it can stay in your system is about 2 months. The ROUGH average for OCCASIONAL users is 8 days.

 

-- The best way to "beat" a Josh Gordon urinalysis is to drink a SH*Tload of water right before the test. I've heard very, very mixed results about every kind of "masking" aid on the market. Basically, SOME of them work SOME of the time. At the very least, watering down your urine will probably buy you some time before you have to re-test with a real sample. If you're really lucky, your company policy doesn't provide for a second test and only pays attention to "true" failure.

 

 

P.S. In case anyone was wondering, yes, I was FORMERLY a Josh Gordon user. And, yes, I'm in the military (going on five years now). We can be randomly tested at any time (curiously, it "randomly" happens almost every time I come back from leave). The utter lack of certainty regarding how long THC stays in your system has convinced me to leave the ganja alone until I'm a civilian again. One more year...

Edited May 30, 2005 by Swiss Cheezhead

[Yukon Cornelius]

mary jane i know here well and she is a goer

[THE SIX KINGS]

"Marajuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, LSD is the bomb. So don't you try to equate liquor to marajuana, Mister, not with me. You may be able to sell that jazz to another pothead, but not to somebody who holds some sick kid's head while he vomits and wretches on a curbstone at 4:00 in the morning. And when his legs get enough starch into them so he can stand up and empty his pockets, you can bet he'll have a stick or two of marajuana. And you can double your money he'll turn up a sugar cube or a cap or two. So don't you con me with your mind expansion slop. I deal with kids every day. I try to clean up the mess that people like you make out of 'em. I'm the expert here, you're not."

Joe Friday, Dragnet circa 1968

[Big Score 1]

nobody who disagrees with you has even offered a good argument.

826654[/snapback]

 

 

Well except for the very first post to this topic.

Methinks it's because in this great nation of ours...it's illegal.

826264[/snapback]

 

 

The NFL is an extremely high profile sport and as such, every little infraction is immediately reported by the press and becomes news. Since Josh Gordon is still an illegal substance, you'd very quickly see the Federal Govt stepping in and demanding the NFL do something to control it, when cases of NFL players using it, selling it etc keep popping up and the NFL was seen to be doing nothing about it.

 

As it is now, for every Bong Morris, Nate Newton or Tammerick Vanover out there, the NFL can stand up and self righteously proclaim "Hey, we don't condone that sort of illegal behavior. We're doing our part. We're testing these guys!"

 

Now what do you think the Govt's reaction, or the public perception would be, when these cases come to light and the NFL is seen to be standing idly by?

 

You think the NFL wants to go through something similar to what Baseball recently went through with the very public hearings, on the rampant use of steroids?

 

You've simply got to take into account the amount of negative publicity the NFL would receive, if they were seen to be turning a blind eye to Josh Gordon. Not everyone is as blasé or enlightened / understanding about Josh Gordon, as some of you seem to think. The moral majority is alive and well here in the US and according to recent Polls, gaining strength. That's an awful lot of potential revenue, for the NFL to risk alienating.

 

All in all, it's really pretty easy to understand why the NFL does test for it.

[spain]

Since Josh Gordon is still an illegal substance, you'd very quickly see the Federal Govt stepping in and demanding the NFL do something to control it, when cases of NFL players using it, selling it etc keep popping up and the NFL was seen to be doing nothing about it.

 

 

826729[/snapback]

 

 

 

You mean like with the NBA where Josh Gordon smoking is the norm? I dont see the Feds stepping in there. As a matter of fact, I am not even sure if drug testing athletes would pass constitutional muster even if the US Congress passed legislation mandating it. Doesnt the 4th ammendment preclude search and seisures without some probable cause?

[MikesVikes]

When the NBA didn't test for Josh Gordon it was called a publicity nightmare. If you don't think that any league doesn't care what people think, you are stupid.

 

Need more?

[Big Score 1]

You mean like with the NBA where Josh Gordon smoking is the norm?  I dont see the Feds stepping in there. 

826754[/snapback]

 

 

 

I also don't see the NBA appealing to everyone across all race, creed or religious boundary's, nor reaching anywhere near the market, that the NFL does.

 

However, if memory serves me right, once Mookie Blaylock got popped for Josh Gordon and it hit the news wires across the nation several years ago, the NBA did indeed put in their form of Josh Gordon control. It was a public relations nightmare for the NBA when it came to light that they did not have any controls in place.

 

#1) The NBA does want to appeal to as large a market as possible. They did not want the public perception to be that they were a League who condoned the use of Josh Gordon. Which previous to the Mookie Blaylock incident, by default, since they had nothing on the books in regards to Josh Gordon use at that time, the NBA was indeed becoming known as the Pot League.

 

#2) Aside from attempting damage control with the general public, the NBA wasn't about to wait until the Govt publicly TOLD them to.

 

BTW spain, how hard core of an NBA fan are you? The reason I ask is because you've brought up the notion that in the NBA, weed smoking is the norm. That's your perception right? If you're just a casual fan and you're under this impression, then you know you're not alone. It is an image problem for the NBA which they brought upon themselves.

 

The NFL doesn't seem to have the same image problem of being a Pot League.

 

I wonder why the NBA does, yet the NFL doesn't......hmmmm.........

 

Oh! I know why that might be!

 

Do you think it could be because the NFL had a well publicized substance abuse program in place...whereas the NBA didn't?

[Chavez]

Before anyone reads the above and decides to toke up, let me clarify...

 

There is VERY LITTLE known about the length of time marijuna stays in your system. Sometimes, heavy pot-smokers (several times a day) build up a sort of "immunity", meaning their bodies learn to process and "flush" the substance quickly. Other times, habitual users retain traces of THC for a very long time. On the flip side, some people who rarely smoke pot will sometimes process Josh Gordon just like other substances, like alcohol. In other cases, people who have taken a few hits from a joint once in a year have tested positive for THC 40 days later.

....

The utter lack of certainty regarding how long THC stays in your system has convinced me to leave the ganja alone until I'm a civilian again. I more year...

 

826661[/snapback]

 

 

 

Good stuff; I was informed of my view by a nurse who was administering a urine test to me (amazing what you can learn from the very people who are trying to "catch" you with a little cordial conversation); suffice it to say, one theory of mine is that the more stringent the test, the more expensive it is. Thus the Feds and such are going to use the least expensive, least stringent test out there, giving you wiggle room for trace amounts.

[Bill Swerski]

The way I see it, NFL players have the privilige of playing in a league that pays incredible salaries and has an outstanding benefits/pension package. So, if the league mandates that these players abide by our government's drug laws as a condition of being financially set for the rest of their lives (provided they invest their money wisely), I don't have a problem with it.

 

Interesting topic, but I'm going to have to side with Tagliabue and the NFLPA on this one. If Onterrio Smith's stupid ass would rather smoke up than provide financial security for his family, that's his choice. He can smoke up at Ricky's house as much as he wants to after he leaves the NFL.

[JoJoTheWebToedBoy]

"Marajuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, LSD is the bomb. So don't you try to equate liquor to marajuana, Mister, not with me. You may be able to sell that jazz to another pothead, but not to somebody who holds some sick kid's head while he vomits and wretches on a curbstone at 4:00 in the morning. And when his legs get enough starch into them so he can stand up and empty his pockets, you can bet he'll have a stick or two of marajuana. And you can double your money he'll turn up a sugar cube or a cap or two. So don't you con me with your mind expansion slop. I deal with kids every day. I try to clean up the mess that people like you make out of 'em. I'm the expert here, you're not."

Joe Friday, Dragnet circa 1968

 

826697[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

Good stuff; I was informed of my view by a nurse who was administering a urine test to me (amazing what you can learn from the very people who are trying to "catch" you with a little cordial conversation); suffice it to say, one theory of mine is that the more stringent the test, the more expensive it is. Thus the Feds and such are going to use the least expensive, least stringent test out there, giving you wiggle room for trace amounts.

 

826795[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

The main ingredient, is a substance called THC. And THC likes to attach itself to fat cells so it hangs aroound a little longer then other drugs. An occasional user's system should be clean in 48 hours. Habitual users, because the THC is building up and storing itself, is usually much longer.

 

Now if they are using a hair sample, your screwed. That can be tracked for months.