DMD Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Mock 1 - 12 team, performance scoring Nice effort by all teams. Interesting in this one was how far Benson and Arrington fell and what the effect of taking a QB or TE in the early rounds ends up causing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Just glancing over it, I see Brees was taken late too. I think he might be the sleeper QB this year. I might have taken him earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 (edited) Mock 1 - 12 team, performance scoring Nice effort by all teams. Interesting in this one was how far Benson and Arrington fell and what the effect of taking a QB or TE in the early rounds ends up causing. 852193[/snapback] I guess grabbing Witten too early got me the "B". You're right, I was a bit "on tilt", to borrow a poker term, by missing Gates by one pick. I honestly didn't think Witten would fall to me with my next pick, though... and outside of Gonzo, Gates & Witten, I don't really trust any other TEs to put up significant yardage and TD numbers this season. Edited June 23, 2005 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trrhyne Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 The page is not available for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 The page is not available for some reason. 852286[/snapback] There were some formatting errors when DMD first posted it. He's probably cleaning it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Just glancing over it, I see Brees was taken late too. I think he might be the sleeper QB this year. I might have taken him earlier. 852205[/snapback] That was my big mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampnuts Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 (edited) I would change a few things in hindsight, but overall I feel all teams did pretty well. The Barlow pick was my big dilemma prior to turning the draft over to Doc Chargerz. I was tied up between Barlow and Dunn, and I ended up going for the player with less competition. I always try to land 3 starters at RB. I feel it's a must for bye weeks and injury insurance. The Dallas Clark pick was interesting, because I haven't thought that much about him this year. I guess he either explode with the loss of Pollard, or just get lost in the mix. I am surprised he went ahead of Crumpler though. If we had a proven QB, this team would be a lot prettier on paper. Edited June 23, 2005 by Swampnuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playsccr Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 to the owner of pick#3..i assume you took edge over holmes becuase the injury factor? safe to assume if all tds are 6 you take manning there #3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 to the owner of pick#3..i assume you took edge over holmes becuase the injury factor?safe to assume if all tds are 6 you take manning there #3? 852398[/snapback] Yup, you basically have to waste a pretty early pick on Johnson if you pick Holmes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 DMD: I notice you think taking Jamal Lewis at 1.7 is a bit high. What are you projecting for Lewis? Where would you take him in a 12 team draft like this? I personally think he is going to have a HUGH year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 24, 2005 Author Share Posted June 24, 2005 DMD: I notice you think taking Jamal Lewis at 1.7 is a bit high. What are you projecting for Lewis? Where would you take him in a 12 team draft like this? I personally think he is going to have a HUGH year... 852411[/snapback] I have him 8th with 1650/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 the Kate Middleton in the 8th spot keeped stealing my picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Mock 1 - 12 team, performance scoring Nice effort by all teams. Interesting in this one was how far Benson and Arrington fell and what the effect of taking a QB or TE in the early rounds ends up causing. 852193[/snapback] Nice write up DMD Can't argue with your analysis there. Bring on #2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 When is the next mock? I'd like to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 24, 2005 Author Share Posted June 24, 2005 probably start it on Monday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playsccr Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 probably start it on Monday 852539[/snapback] how do you get in on the mocks? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'canes2004 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Just don't see how Muck gets an A for that team. QB's, Plummer and Delhomme are very very average at best. RB's, Only one true starter in Willis and he is still a big injury concern. Then he has 3 rooks in Ronnie Brown (Ricky Williams) Cadillac (Pittman) and C4 (Bennett, Moore) and A-Train thrown in the mix. Could be hard to get a second starting RB. Even if one of them get the starting nod, will they hit the rookie wall later in the year say week 12 or so when they've already played 15-16 games (with pre-season) when you need them most. Wr's, Moss is a stud sure but like you said you have 3 VERY old WR's. Bruce could still put up decent numbers but Toomer is done. Smith has alot of competition in the young Jax WR's. Just don't see alot of yards/TD's out of this bunch. So overall his team features 1 true #1 RB 1 true #1 WR and 2 second tier QB's (for Plummer that's a reach). Just MHO but I don't see his team as being a "A". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchico Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Just don't see how Muck gets an A for that team. QB's, Plummer and Delhomme are very very average at best. RB's, Only one true starter in Willis and he is still a big injury concern. Then he has 3 rooks in Ronnie Brown (Ricky Williams) Cadillac (Pittman) and C4 (Bennett, Moore) and A-Train thrown in the mix. Could be hard to get a second starting RB. Even if one of them get the starting nod, will they hit the rookie wall later in the year say week 12 or so when they've already played 15-16 games (with pre-season) when you need them most. Wr's, Moss is a stud sure but like you said you have 3 VERY old WR's. Bruce could still put up decent numbers but Toomer is done. Smith has alot of competition in the young Jax WR's. Just don't see alot of yards/TD's out of this bunch. So overall his team features 1 true #1 RB 1 true #1 WR and 2 second tier QB's (for Plummer that's a reach). Just MHO but I don't see his team as being a "A". 852591[/snapback] I was wondering the same thing myself. I watched the draft unfold and all the praise for muck was very bewildering. Maybe if this was a dynasty league i could see it, but 3 rookies behind a 2nd year rb who has a new unproven QB, not to mention the weak o-line in miami and fairly non existant offense in TB. I don't see how this team gets anywhere in the begining(rookie rbs are slow to start) or end of the season (most tire, especially on bad teams). I see this as a C team at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 24, 2005 Author Share Posted June 24, 2005 Just don't see how Muck gets an A for that team. QB's, Plummer and Delhomme are very very average at best. RB's, Only one true starter in Willis and he is still a big injury concern. Then he has 3 rooks in Ronnie Brown (Ricky Williams) Cadillac (Pittman) and C4 (Bennett, Moore) and A-Train thrown in the mix. Could be hard to get a second starting RB. Even if one of them get the starting nod, will they hit the rookie wall later in the year say week 12 or so when they've already played 15-16 games (with pre-season) when you need them most. Wr's, Moss is a stud sure but like you said you have 3 VERY old WR's. Bruce could still put up decent numbers but Toomer is done. Smith has alot of competition in the young Jax WR's. Just don't see alot of yards/TD's out of this bunch. So overall his team features 1 true #1 RB 1 true #1 WR and 2 second tier QB's (for Plummer that's a reach). Just MHO but I don't see his team as being a "A". 852591[/snapback] Didn't say his team was an "A", just that the plan he used worked out as well as it could have. Plus we disagree on a few players. While I do not consider Plummer or Delhomme as top 8 QBs, they actually both were last year and I think the team will be okay with those two and could do well. As I noted in my writeup, he could have taken Favre over Delhomme and made the team better so taking a QB there was a good plan in my opinion. I still do not understand why some would consider any RB taken with a top five overall draft pick to be anything but a starter. In the history of the NFL, any RB taken that early has always been a starter. Always. So I do strongly consider both Brown and Williams as starters because they both will. The last three years has been an absolute drought in RBs but this was the best year in the history of the NFL for 3 RBs taken in the first 5 picks. In the last six years there have been only 4 RBs taken that early in a draft - LaDainian Tomlinson, Jamal Lewis, Ricky Williams and Edgerrin James. Each was a starter from the first game. Hard to find a #2? More like hard choosing which starter to use. He ended up with the best WR and then there is nothing wrong with Jimmy Smith as a #2 or Ike Bruce as a #3. Toomer (fallback) and Parker (upside/risk) make the wideouts very good in conjunction with Moss who could count as 2 wideouts anyway. The plan worked out far better than I think anyone could hope for because in most drafts Cadillac will not be around at the 4.05 pick and even Ronnie Brown may not make it to the 3.08. He got away with grabbing Moss and still landed two more starting RBs. So as I see it, that plan produced a good QB (Favre would have been my pick), THREE starting RBs that all have upside, the best WR in the NFL and enough Wr depth to at least produce average numbers for WR2 and WR3 (combined with Moss becomes quite good). TE is no big deal but his PK and DEF are among the best. I think the plan produced a solid team. I meant to give it an A- but now I have to stick with an A since you brought it up. I'd take a team that could have had Favre, 3 starting RBs, Moss and one of the very best DEF and PK. His only weakness is TE to me. Sadly, that team likely could not be put together in most drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Thanks for backing me up, DMD. The only reason I passed on Favre was because of all of the questions related to his o-line... When considering that Delhomme will be getting his best WR back (Steve Smith) and that Colbert is a year more experienced...plus they should have more consistency at RB this year (hopefully for them), I see another 3600-4000yds and 24-28TDs, with fewer INTs than Favre. Plummer? He's really inconsistent; but when he's on, he's really on. I would not be surprised to see stats that are pretty similar to last year for him. I can play them based on matchups. And, the reason I took Plummer right away is because I didn't want to be staring at a choice of two Tier3/4 QBs for my second QB spot; by handcuffing two Tier2 QBs together, I should be able to outproduce a few teams that have a Tier1 and a Tier4. Next, RBs... Ricky Williams may come back and may play some and may hurt Ronnie Browns' stats. Even so, he ends up with AT LEAST 1200 total yards and 10 total TDs. Same for Cadillac; even if Pittman takes some carries/receptions, you don't burn a 1.05 pick for a guy who's gonna be stuck in the middle of RBBC. And, McGahee? Ok...first year QB...questionable line...no competition (really) at RB. Henry is/was a very solid RB, and McGahee beat him out as soon as he was healthy. When Henry was running for 1200-1400yds, he was routinely getting drafted in the top half of the second round; and if McGahee beat him out, presumably, BUF thinks he'll produce better...and if he produces better than Henry, then he'll put up 1400-1800yds and 12-18 TDs. I should have the luxury of either trading to improve at QB/WR/TE, or playing matchups all year long. The "old guys" at WR? Heck, my #2 and #3 WRs could outproduce the #1 WR on a few other teams. I'd probably take Jimmy Smith over other teams' #1's in LColes, RWilliams (too much competition for passes to be a #1WR this year, imho) and maybe even HWard; I'd probably take Ike Bruce over other teams' #2 WR's in Bennett, RSmith and Stokely (#3s do NOT put up consistently high numbers from year to year; he will be a big disappointment)...and maybe above Driver, Fitzgerald and Porter. If Moss does 1600/14, JSmith does 1200/7 and Bruce does 1100/6, my AVERAGE wideout will do 1300/9...which, again would put my AVERAGE starting WR better than the #1 for most other teams... Lastly, Toomer stunk up the joint last year because he was nicked up; I hear he has approached the offseason with a vengenace and expects to be 'back to form' this coming season. As a #4 WR, he is a VERY low risk. Samie Parker is nothing but upside; a chance he could end up the #1 WR in KC, which would be pretty valuable given that Trent Green throws for about 4000yds a season. Eric Johnson at TE? He had more passes thrown his way last year than ANY other TE. He had more passes thrown his way than any WR on his team last year. Does anyone besides me think that taking him in the 10th round as the 12th TE taken was a low risk proposition? Pollard is a pretty solid receiving TE, and Detroit threw to their TE more than most teams last year, although, that could drop if they start using Mike Williams in some TE-related roles this year. While I don't have Gonzo or Gates at TE, I could still outproduce more than half of the other teams in the league at TE. My kickers are great. I took them when I did mainly to keep them off of other guys' teams; Vandy and Wilkins is about as solid as you could get at kicker...and I've got them both! I have a top 3 defense (New England) and a defense that has made more improvement than any other in the NFL (KC), plus they still have one of the best return men in the league in Dante Hall. I really like my team a ton! I was pleased with the guys I got where I got them. Didn't have a plan other than 'best player available that will start for me'. The only thing that would have been different is if I'd have had a QB slip to me in the 6th or 7th rounds, but, I didn't like what I saw there vs. the other players; seems like the once I wanted went a few picks before it was my turn...but, it's not like I ended up blowing the picks on crappy players or players that were taken a round or two too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 the Kate Middleton in the 8th spot keeped stealing my picks 852461[/snapback] LoL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'canes2004 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 (edited) I'm not bagging on you Muck or your strategy for drafting. If the rooks work out and get the starting jobs, (which is probable in Williams and Brown) I just think there is too much competition around them for touches. As in the case of Brown, your 1200/10 would do nothing more than make me dance around the house in delight, but between the still unproven line, which has been reshuffled again, a new offensive system being put in place and Ricky looming more and more, I just don't see it this year. I think Williams could have a good/great year but as I said before, Pittman is a hard worker, great reciever out of the backfield, and just hard to keep on the bench. He will get his touches. I still think your WR's will be suspect. As a Jimmy Smith owner in my local dynasty, I have seen his numbers decrease over the past 2 years and I expect that trend to continue. Bruce could still have a decent season as he seems to stay in great shape and has heart to spare. I don't care what Toomer says or thinks, he is DONE. Manning will still be running for his life and the G-Men and their offense are horrible. General Coughlin is gonna implode. I didn't mention Moss because there is no need. He is poised for a big year in Oakland and will probably be your teams' leading scorer when all is said and done. Still the age factor in 3 of your WR's worries me. Still not sold on Delhomme or Plummer. Yeah Smith is back, in theory, but lets see how far back he is. The Panthers running game still has some questions but I can see your optimisim in Delhomme and the reason you picked him. I'm not saying your team or your strategy sucks by any means. I'm just saying if your grading all the teams, I just wouldn't give yours an A. At the end of the year it could be an A team (get it? A-Team ) but too many question mark to give it an A this early. Again, just MHO. Edited June 24, 2005 by 'canes2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Now I was advocating taking Edge earlier than most last year. Now this year I think the pendulum has swung over too much. I wouldn't take him this early. Is he getting younger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I'd take about one second to pick Culpepper at 2.04. Nice tandem and if a 2nd runningback performs, what a decent team, assuming Walker gets into camp and doesn't pull a Hammy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Swamp, 4 RBs, 4 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 K on your roster before your QB? Why didn't you just get your 2nd TE or K while you were at it? Looks like a team you'd draft if you didn't have to play with it all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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