Grits and Shins Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 In regards to Neon Deion ... I am not denying that he was good for a couple of years ... but I got tired of seeing defenses not even test his side of the field. I couldn't tell if he was any good or not because defenses wouldn't try him out. I know, I know you are going to say they knew he was good ... but I'm here to tell you that when he was in Dallas he was washed up and they still didn't test him. And god forbid you need him to tackle anybody. He was more flash than substance IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 In regards to Neon Deion ... I am not denying that he was good for a couple of years ... but I got tired of seeing defenses not even test his side of the field. I couldn't tell if he was any good or not because defenses wouldn't try him out. I know, I know you are going to say they knew he was good ... but I'm here to tell you that when he was in Dallas he was washed up and they still didn't test him. And god forbid you need him to tackle anybody. He was more flash than substance IMO. 861868[/snapback] I think they feared seeing him dance when he brought it back for a TD....that was more annoying than anything.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I think they feared seeing him dance when he brought it back for a TD....that was more annoying than anything.. 861873[/snapback] Couldn't agree more. But the dude was fast in his day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Couldn't agree more. But the dude was fast in his day. 861875[/snapback] Being fast doesn't automatically make you a great player ... many fast players wash out. I will grant you that Deion developed the ability to make it seem like his man was open and then he used his speed to drop in for the kill. But when you lose a step this doesn't work any more and he had no other skills to speak of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Vick has to be the most over-rated player in the NFL. Brady is also over-rated at QB. RB - Micheal Bennett WR - Drew Bennett TE - Shockey DL - Ogunleye LB - Urlacher DB - Ty Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 corey simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilwoman Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I am sure I am going to get blasted for this but IMO Edge seems overrated to me. I think his first two years in the league he was awesome...but I just am not hot on this guy. I know he was injuried and he did have a good year last year, but there are other RB's I would rather have...No offense to any Colt fans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 In regards to Neon Deion ... I am not denying that he was good for a couple of years ... but I got tired of seeing defenses not even test his side of the field. I couldn't tell if he was any good or not because defenses wouldn't try him out. I know, I know you are going to say they knew he was good ... but I'm here to tell you that when he was in Dallas he was washed up and they still didn't test him. And god forbid you need him to tackle anybody. He was more flash than substance IMO. 861868[/snapback] Agreed on all counts. I was more or less talking about his days in Atlanta and probably his year in San Fran as well. Also as a return man he was very dangerous any time he touched the ball. I was a big fan while at FSU and his NFL career until the second he put on the star. Then it was from there. And I wish now he would have stayed retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Barber, Tiki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 And I wish now he would have stayed retired. 861908[/snapback] What's worse... seeing him on the field, or in the booth? Both are pretty unbearable for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Nate Clements... from a homers perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 What's worse... seeing him on the field, or in the booth? Both are pretty unbearable for me. 861912[/snapback] I have to agree whole-heartedly with this sentiment. The only benefit to seeing him on the field is then I don't have to listen to him in the booth. I'll give the man this much .. he knows how to sell himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I have to agree whole-heartedly with this sentiment. The only benefit to seeing him on the field is then I don't have to listen to him in the booth. I'll give the man this much .. he knows how to sell himself. 861920[/snapback] Now if he could just figure out how to pay for himself, more specifically his car repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 (edited) If he catches the ball, perhaps. 861822[/snapback] Please take your seat, Darin. School is now in session. D-Jax dropped a number of balls last year, to be sure. However, he still managed to catch 87 of them. Considering he only caught 63 in 2003, 62 in 2002 (where he missed three games), and 70 in 2001, I'd say he's improved in that regards quite a bit. That also means that he caught more passes last year than Harrison, Clayton, Ward, Andre Johnson, Rod Smith, Donald Driver, Drew Bennett, Wayne, Meshawn, T.J. Housh, or Owens. (Every other WR in the NFL caught less than 70 passes and is unworthy of comparison). Only 9 other WRs caught more passes than D-Jax: Moulds (88), Bruce (89), Walker (89), Coles (90), Moose (93), Holt (94), Horn (94), C. Johnson (95), and Mason (96). D-Jax was targeted 155 times last seaons - the 4th most - of any WR. That translates into being targeted an average of 10.4 times in every game he played (a full 16, might I add); the 6th most of any WR. Only Boldin, Moose, C. Johnson, Mason, and Coles got more looks on a per game basis. D-Jax accrued the 10th most receiving yards of all WRs at 1207 (though NFL.com says 1199, but whatever). However, only 6 WRs - C. Johnson, Bruce, Holt, Wlaker, Horn, and Moose - served up apprciably more yards. (Bennett (1247), Wayne (1210), and Driver (1208) were are pretty much the same as D-Jax). That means D-Jax racked up more receiving yards than Owens, Clayton, J. Smith, Mason, R. Smith, A. Johnson, and Harrison. All remaining WR failed to crack the 1100 mark and are unworthy of comparison. Jackson also scored a respectable 7 TDs. Not a barn burner number, but about a TD every other game. In fact, he did a good job spreading those TDs around, giving him more week to week appeal, with only one game with multiple TDs (vs. SF). Now, you may be saying, "but that was just one good year. I don't buy into the notion that he's that consistent a WR." Well, you'd be partly right and partly wrong. D-Jax wasn't consistent last year in some ways, relative to prior years. But despite being the 14th most productive WR in my BOTH league, 2004 was actually a down year for D-Jax in some ways. Let's take a look at some NFL.com stats. 2004: 1199 yards with a 13.8 yard per reception average, and 7 TDs 2003: 1137 yards with a 16.7 yard per reception average, and 9 TDs 2002: (missed three games) 877 yards for a 14.1 yard per reception average and 4 TDs 2001: 1081 yards for a 15.4 yard per receptions average and 8 TDs. Looking at those stats, here's what I see: - yards and TDs were fairly consistent on an aggregate basis, which is good; - however, last year was D-Jax's worst yard per reception average since his rookie year; and - 7 TDs per year seams to be a conservative expectation for D-jax, given that every other year he played a full 16 games he scored more than that (even in his rookie year where he only started nine games, but played in 16, he scored 6 TDs). I guess my point is this: if last year was an "off" year for D-Jax, I shudder to think of what he could do if he was "on." Also consider that he has one of the five easiest schedules for WRs during the fantasy playoffs this year. Now, back to the issue of the dropped passes. He dropped 11 of them in 2004. That's 11 dropped passed out of the 155 thrown to him, or about 7% dropped. Last year he dropped 12 of the 130 passes thrown to him, or about 9.2%. I'd say all those stats are moving in the right direction, wouldn't you? Considering D-Jax can easily be had in the late 3rd to mid 4th round of a 12 team draft, I'd say he serves up surprising consistency at an inheriantly inconsistant position. He's got nice upside, he's his team's true #1 WR, and what he offers simply comes with less risk, relative to many of the other WRs who are going to be drafted around the same time. Edited July 1, 2005 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 You go yo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 You go yo! 861983[/snapback] That last post took a lot out of me. I need a nap, some wheaties, a cup of coffee before I attempt anything like that again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dawg Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Now, back to the issue of the dropped passes. He dropped 11 of them in 2004. That's 11 dropped passed out of the 155 thrown to him, or about 7% dropped. Last year he dropped 12 of the 130 passes thrown to him, or about 9.2%. I'd say all those stats are moving in the right direction, don't you? 861978[/snapback] yo, I was curious where you got your dropped passes statistics from. You pulling those stats reminded me of when Stats, Inc. used to put out a great book for us statistical nuts called Pro Football Handbook. They have gotten rid of this publication that was purely stats and had all the situational stats broken out and included dropped passes, etc., but I was curious if there is something similar out there. (I know NFL.com has all the situational statistics, but I did not see drops anywhere.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabra Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Charles Woodson tops my list. The guy was fabulous in college but just has not done anything in the pros. I do not think he is Pro-Bowl caliber. 861412[/snapback] Woodson made 4 straight pro bowls to begin his career, and spent time on the injured list in years 5 and 6. He's been on the downturn since, but I wouldn't say he's over-rated. He's simply not rated anywhere right now in the list of elite corners or as a fantasy IDP. But if i had to have a corner guard a top-notch WR in a high-stakes game, I'd still take a healthy C-Wood over the likes of Champ, Law, Clements or Winfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 (edited) yo, I was curious where you got your dropped passes statistics from. You pulling those stats reminded me of when Stats, Inc. used to put out a great book for us statistical nuts called Pro Football Handbook. They have gotten rid of this publication that was purely stats and had all the situational stats broken out and included dropped passes, etc., but I was curious if there is something similar out there. (I know NFL.com has all the situational statistics, but I did not see drops anywhere.) 862018[/snapback] What, I can't just make this stuff up as I go along? You actually expect me to show my source? *sigh.* Fine. This is the site I found the stats for D-jax's personal dropped passes: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/index.asp The only reason I don't really love the site is that it didn't let me sort that individual stat, relative to all players. If anyone else has a site that allows you to do that, I'd be interested in a link. Edited July 1, 2005 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dawg Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 What, I can't just make this stuff up as I go along? You actually expect me to show my source? *sigh.* Fine. This is the site I found the stats for D-jax's personal dropped passes: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/index.asp The only reason I don't really love the site is that it didn't let me sort that individual stat, relative to all players. If anyone else has a site that allows you to do that, I'd be interested in a link. 862030[/snapback] Great site! I love statistics...just wished Stats still printed the hardcopy of the information. BTW - I think I was able to sort by Passes Dropped... http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=232&Submit=Go I went here to do so... http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leaders.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 (edited) Great site! I love statistics...just wished Stats still printed the hardcopy of the information. BTW - I think I was able to sort by Passes Dropped... http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=232&Submit=Go I went here to do so... http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leaders.asp 862043[/snapback] Thanks, Nate Dawg! Now that I know I can do that, that site is getting book marked. Though, in fairness to Darin, it is worth nothing that D-Jax was tied with Driver for the 2nd most dropped passes in the NFL last year. (Only Chad Johnson had more, with 14). Some of that is clearly a byproduct of getting thrown to more than other WRs (as all three we in the top 15 for WRs targeted last year). However, I still do not believe that is enough of a detractor from his overall value to relegate him to "overvalued" status. Edited July 1, 2005 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffian Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Todd Marinovich... 1. Koren Robinson 2. Peerless Price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Vick is more of a player of interest he's not the best just the most exciting but hell he is the best!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I hate to admit this, but Michael Bennett has always been overrated IMO. 861572[/snapback] I agree. I know I'm going to take a little heat for this one, but I've always thought Shaun Alexander was pretty overrated for a "stud" RB. His overall numbers don't reflect it, but from week to week you never know what you're going to get from him...he seems to do either nothing or absolutely go off. I checked his game logs from the last 3 seasons...in 48 games played, he has had under 80 yards rushing in 23 of them (almost half). He's had under 60 yards rushing in 14 of them, and under 40 yards rushing in 6 of them. I'm not saying he sucks by any means, I just think if he was as great as a lot of people seem to think, he'd show up with a little more consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desidude Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 germy shockey and on defense warren sapp, brian urlacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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