muck Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 My assistant is PT, works around 25hrs / week. Nice lady ... but ... slow with her work; not as detail oriented as I need; insufficient computer skills (and despite me telling her to go take a class, she pretty much refuses); pro-active in some areas, and not in others, etc. I think a hugh hunk of her problems stem from the fact that she appears to have very low self-esteem (I made her cry because she got all sorts of confused about dealing with eastern and central time zones when trying to schedule a conference call with some attorneys a couple of weeks ago and I had to step out of a meeting I was in to do her job for her). There is a ton of stuff I'd like to get her help with, but I simply don't think she's up to the task. So, here's the question ... She's worked for me for about five or six months (all of it part time). If I let her go at the end of November, what would be appropriate for paying her a severance (if anything)? Does the answer about severance make a difference if I let her go after Christmas than before? ...most of the folks I've had to let go weren't around the end of the year and/or had been full-timers and/or had worked with me for more than a few months...so, the combination of part-time, short history and upcoming holidays are raising some questions about how to proceed... Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 6-months = no severance. Holiday firing - meh. Why wait if she sucks that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I've never heard of severance pay for EITHER part time or less than a year of employment. Since she is none of the above, I'd say no way does she get more than a paycheck for the hours she's worked. And if you fire her in the next week, it ain't even close to holiday time. You're no Scrooge if you can her now. Why keep someone who can't figure out time zones without a handbook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF409ers Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 IMHO unless it was offered / negotiated on upon the time of hiring and / or it is "company policy" to pay severance to employees with her criteria, than I would say no you should not feel obligated nor is it necessary to pay her a severance amount. I know firing someone, especially around the Holidays, is not an easy thing to do but the timing should not affect your decision. You should decide on a "company policy", if you don't already have one, on how and what criteria need to be met from now on for fututre employees to earn severance pay. Severance is usually only offered to full time employees who upon being hired are made aware of this "benefit". I don't think I recall a part-time employee who ever got severance pay. Oh and BTW, the sooner you let her go, the better for you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) 6-months = no severance. Holiday firing - meh. Why wait if she sucks that bad? What the Pudster said. Someone that incompetent is just a bad hire. Correct the error and move on. BTW - she blubbed when she made the time zone error not because of the mistake but because she KNOWS she can't do the job, IMO. Edited November 14, 2007 by Ursa Majoris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I have been fired ONCE in my life, and it was not fun. It was just before the holidays (I think right around this time... week or 2 before Thanksgiving). The decision was totally unfounded, which was the real bad part about it... but another bad part about it is the fact that I got no severance. I had worked for this firm for a few years and had been good friends (even prior to employment) with my boss. Losing my job around the holidays sucked. Getting no severance was horrible. I was only a few years out of college and had to dip into savings to get by... NO ONE was hiring around this time... at least not in my industry. Now, muck, I'm not saying my situation is anywhere close to this situation. Just maybe hinting that a small severance package to help this person through the holidays would be a real stand-up thing for you to do. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 Honestly, that's sorta what I've been thinking...even if it's something small like a week of pay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Honestly, that's sorta what I've been thinking...even if it's something small like a week of pay... thats the good thing about being a small biz owner, you have the ability to do what you feel is right vs if you worked for a big company and had to do what their policy and procedures said to do....if you have the means and feel giving a severance is what you want to do then by all means do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) She's worked for me for about five or six months (all of it part time). If I let her go at the end of November, what would be appropriate for paying her a severance (if anything)? Does the answer about severance make a difference if I let her go after Christmas than before? Thoughts? Here's a question for you.... Although she is not approaching doing a good job, is she doing a good enough job to keep her on through Christmas? If she goes, will it just make extra work for you in the interim? It sounds like there are things she is not taking care of, and there are annoyances now...but is she doing anything worthy of her paycheck? I know that sentimentality should never play into business, but if you feel like you can get close to your money's worth out of her, let her go after. If you can't....well, as has been said before and is being said again she is really firing herself. I would not give severance. I don't know how many employees you have, but firing someone in the middle of the holidays can go two ways. Either people think you are a heartless ass because you couldn't wait a few weeks and the environment suffers, or people get on the stick because they know they are not safe if they don't do their job. You would know better how this would affect your work environment. ETA: Or...one more option is to put her on formal notice for not performing her job properly. Detail the shortcomings and give her a specified timeframe to remedy them. Make the timeframe early January. You will probably get better work out of her in at least the short term. Edited November 14, 2007 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) I loathe Caveman Nick due to his sensibility and caring nature making me look like a prick in comparison. From now on, I will wait until after he posts so I can temper my prickedness. Edit: Maybe Nick will suggest a hugh Christmas bonus to boot. Edited November 14, 2007 by Puddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) What the Pudster said. Someone that incompetent is just a bad hire. Correct the error and move on. BTW - she blubbed when she made the time zone error not because of the mistake but because she KNOWS she can't do the job, IMO. "We fixed the glitch" Muck is right, it is likely a self esteem situation and the need to look up time zones is a perfect example. I've had servers who would ask really stupid questions about the food that I know there's not a chance in hell they don't know the answer to. It's because the seed of doubt gets in their head and they figure, "better safe than sorry". Of course, that isn't true when it means, rather than answering a customer's question right then and there, they have to leave the table and bother either myself or my chef du cuisine with a dumb question in the middle of a rush. Then we get pissed at her about not knowing what should be pretty freaking obvious, then she starts to doubt herself more, and gets paralyzed. If it was just that, and not the fact that she refuses to accept training needed to do her job, that can be coached. We had one such server as described above but the customers really liked her, so I worked with her on it and was able to get her past that cycle. Now she's great. Again, her problems can be traced back to this... Of course, the touchy thing is to convey that she's on the verge of getting canned without freaking her out any more. Otherwise, it's just going to get worse and you might as well cut bait. With my employee, my dining room manager was really in favor of trying to make it work and I just told her to forget about pissing me off. Just do your job. Remember that you know these thing. Remember that you're an intelligent person (in her case, she actually is). I gave the sports analogy about not playing not to lose. Relax, have fun, and just play the game the way you know you can. That said, I'm in a tough position when it comes to servers because they're just aren't many good ones to go around. I can't afford to turn away someone if they show any promise at all. Additionally, the rewards for sticking behind someone and helping them through this is an enormously loyal employee. However, that may not be the case for you. If you're confident that you can find a much better replacement... Oh, and when they've got to go, they've got to go. It is always a good time to fire someone who needs to be fired. 6 mos, part time, no $$$ Edited November 14, 2007 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 You're not giving her severance pay because she has earned it... you're just giving her something to help her get by for a short while simply because you're trying to be nice. Business doesn't always have to be cut-throat bottomline. I suggest you make it 2 weeks worth of her paycheck, and just so that all of us here can laugh at the irony, I further suggest that you call it Puddy Pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 We have a receptionist from a temp agency. One of those rent to own type of workers so to speak. We are about to come to the end of her "rental" period, and it looks like we are going to fire her as well. We will probably give her 2 weeks severance pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) You're not giving her severance pay because she has earned it... you're just giving her something to help her get by for a short while simply because you're trying to be nice. Business doesn't always have to be cut-throat bottomline. I suggest you make it 2 weeks worth of her paycheck, and just so that all of us here can laugh at the irony, I further suggest that you call it Puddy Pay. You know the standard 2 week notice thing? Well basically give her the 2 week notice yourself, but let her go the day you give it to her and tell her that you will pay her for those next 2 weeks. Edited November 14, 2007 by CaP'N GRuNGe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I find if I have to ask "am I being an ass?" that I usually am. Luckily, I don't care anymore and would fire that reject after making her pick up my lunch today. Your severance package is I don't morally degrade you even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 6 months, part time, severance? Dude, kick that bisch out, call the agency, get another phone girl in there. This question does not need to be asked. It is her own fault for being a crappy employee. If she wants it, she could have another job tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) She fjorded up a deal I'm trying to get closed... well, actually she wasn't the cause of the fjording, but because she wasn't on top of things, I found out today that paperwork that was sent in on a deal two weeks ago either got lost or never arrived. So, I've got to get a whole new round of documents signed. ... Back to the point about "is she doing enough to earn at least some of her pay"? Well, my wife raised the same issue last night. I'm tempted to tell her that I need to cut her pay for reduced expectations ... and then if she quits, she quits. Edited November 14, 2007 by muck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I'm tempted to tell her that I need to cut her pay for reduced expectations Bad idea james, cut your losses. That idea is the dumbest I could have imagined, did you get that advice from bushwhacked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramhock Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Bad idea james, cut your losses. That idea is the dumbest I could have imagined, did you get that advice from bushwhacked? Are you implying that muck's wife's bush is whacked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 She fjorded up a deal I'm trying to get closed... well, actually she wasn't the cause of the fjording, but because she wasn't on top of things, I found out today that paperwork that was sent in on a deal two weeks ago either got lost or never arrived. So, I've got to get a whole new round of documents signed. ... Back to the point about "is she doing enough to earn at least some of her pay"? Well, my wife raised the same issue last night. I'm tempted to tell her that I need to cut her pay for reduced expectations ... and then if she quits, she quits. I would just let her go at this point. Now her incompetence is costing you money. IMO she hasn't been there long enough for severance pay or proved to be worth the consideration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Back to the point about "is she doing enough to earn at least some of her pay"? Well, my wife raised the same issue last night. I'm tempted to tell her that I need to cut her pay for reduced expectations ... and then if she quits, she quits. Nah, that's just silly and, no offense, a cop out. You need to fire her. It's what happens to incompetent people. She's in way over her head and can't be happy, the way you've told it, and neither are you. You're spending all your time looking for - and expecting - mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Nah, that's just silly and, no offense, a cop out. You need to fire her. It's what happens to incompetent people. She's in way over her head and can't be happy, the way you've told it, and neither are you. You're spending all your time looking for - and expecting - mistakes. Yeah at first it sounded like this person may have deserved at least a small severance to get her through the holidays but at this point I think you need to let her go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 thats the good thing about being a small biz owner, you have the ability to do what you feel is right vs if you worked for a big company and had to do what their policy and procedures said to do....if you have the means and feel giving a severance is what you want to do then by all means do it. What keg said. I would hate to lose my job around the holidays and even if it was my fault, it would still suck. But if my former employer was nice enough to give at least a little help, thats one less thing to worry about and make the next job hunt a little less stressful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Step one ... I gave her next week off. Step two ... let her go after the SEC finishes their audit the week after Thanksgiving. I think it'd maybe look fishy to the regulators if I fire my personal assistant a week or two before they come to audit my firm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Step one ... I gave her next week off. Step two ... let her go after the SEC finishes their audit the week after Thanksgiving. I think it'd maybe look fishy to the regulators if I fire my personal assistant a week or two before they come to audit my firm... Well, there's a wrinkle you didn't mention before. Good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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