Matt Walsh sends NFL 8 tapes

[Bronco Billy]

Not sure how feasible it would be to analyze 30 minutes of tape in the 30 or so mintues they get at halftime. But at the same time I am not saying that it didn't happen. At this point it would not suprise me if a story came out of a room at Gillette Stadium called the Library with every teams playbooks.

 

 

30 minutes of tape? Okay, say NE runs even 40 O plays in the first half (extraordinary of non-kicking O plays in a half), and with immediate editing has 5-10 seconds between the signal and the alignment immediately prior to the snap of the ball, you're looking at 5 to 6 minutes of material at most. 10 minutes for review, another 5-10 minutes of implemenation and you've still got enough time to take a leak & slam down a brat & a coke before the second half starts.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[Bronco Billy]

Is it just that people are mad that the Pats cheat better?

 

No. Cheating that could very well have influenced the games (and championships) of a sport that we love will draw some ire. Would you expect any less?

[Kid Cid]

 

30 minutes of tape? Okay, say NE runs even 40 O plays in the first half (extraordinary of non-kicking O plays in a half), and with immediate editing has 5-10 seconds between the signal and the alignment immediately prior to the snap of the ball, you're looking at 5 to 6 minutes of material at most. 10 minutes for review, another 5-10 minutes of implemenation and you've still got enough time to take a leak & slam down a brat & a coke before the second half starts.

Ahh, so now they not only are taping signals but have a truck full of video editing equipment available to distill it all down in time to review it at the half?

 

I'm not apologizing, advocating, or otherwise excusing what the Pats did. They clearly violated a league rule and they clearly paid a penalty for it. I just think that you've let your hatred of the Pats that run bone marrow deep cloud your thinking a bit.

 

This hatred is also clouding your thinking as to the accomplishments of the Giants last season as well. To say that the Giants won simply because the Pats choked completely trivializes the THREE playoff games they won, on the road, against both their opponents and at times, nature itself. The Giants stood up as a team and took on those challenges, including taking down this supposedly invincible team. They did nothing during the SB that you can point to and say that they weren't playing at thte same level as the Pats nor, can you point to anything the Pats did that suggests they weren't playing up to their caliber. Simply put, the Giants took it to them that day, the Pats didn't roll over.

[Patriots]

I would actually be interested to know how these tapes were used. There is a lot of talk of the taping of the signals but no one has said anything about anyone on the Pats sidelines looking for the signals and then calling a play based on inside knowledge of what the other team was going to do.

[Bronco Billy]

Ahh, so now they not only are taping signals but have a truck full of video editing equipment available to distill it all down in time to review it at the half?

 

Yeah, that's what you need. And a 12 person editing crew with aides, grips, etc.

 

How about this: I hold a video camera. I aim it at the D coach who sends in signals and as soon as he prepares to start gesturing as his D captain looks over, I hit the record button. When he stops gesturing, I hit the stop button. The I wait for my team to break the huddle and come up to the LoS, when I aim the camera at the field where the D is lineup up. As Brady gets under center, I hit the record button. When the ball is snapped, I hit the stop button after the first 2-3 seconds of the play. Repeat on every 1st, 2nd, & 3rd down offensive play that my team runs.

 

Not only have I illegally taped signals attached to footage of D formations and reduced the tape time significantly so that it can be reviewed in 6-7 minutes, but I also saved the team all the costs of the video editing equipment, the truck to place it, the editing crew, the aides, the grips, the etc.

 

I'm not only helping NE cheat, but I'm being thrifty while i'm being effective doing it.

 

And why the hell would I hate the Pats? That's just an incredibly stupid rationalization. I'd admire them if I didn't know how they had broken the rules to accomplish their acheivements. And besides, DEN pWns Belichick.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

Yeah, that's what you need. And a 12 person editing crew with aides, grips, etc.

 

How about this: I hold a video camera. I aim it at the D coach who sends in signals and as soon as he prepares to start gesturing as his D captain looks over, I hit the record button. When he stops gesturing, I hit the stop button. The I wait for my team to break the huddle and come up to the LoS, when I aim the camera at the field where the D is lineup up. As Brady gets under center, I hit the record button. When the ball is snapped, I hit the stop button after the first 2-3 seconds of the play. Repeat on every 1st, 2nd, & 3rd down offensive play that my team runs.

 

Not only have I illegally taped signals attached to footage of D formations and reduced the tape time significantly so that it can be reviewed in 6-7 minutes, but I also saved the team all the costs of the video editing equipment, the truck to place it, the editing crew, the aides, the grips, the etc.

 

I'm not only helping NE cheat, but I'm being thrifty while i'm being effective doing it.

 

And why the hell would I hate the Pats? That's just an incredibly stupid rationalization. I'd admire them if I didn't know how they had broken the rules to accomplish their acheivements. And besides, DEN pWns Belichick.

 

 

Actually, you haven't violated any NFL rules in the above description. It is not illegal to video tape defensive signals. that's what many people are forgetting. What you need to add is that all of the above happens from the sidelines where cameras are not allowed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing what you said above, from the designated spots where the league allows cameras for coaches film.

[Bronco Billy]

Actually, you haven't violated any NFL rules in the above description. It is not illegal to video tape defensive signals. that's what many people are forgetting. What you need to add is that all of the above happens from the sidelines where cameras are not allowed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing what you said above, from the designated spots where the league allows cameras for coaches film.

 

 

Thanks for that clarification.

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

Not only have I illegally taped signals attached to footage of D formations and reduced the tape time significantly so that it can be reviewed in 6-7 minutes, but I also saved the team all the costs of the video editing equipment, the truck to place it, the editing crew, the aides, the grips, the etc.

 

 

I suppose i should have let that statemant stand?

[HowboutthemCowboys]

I would actually be interested to know how these tapes were used. There is a lot of talk of the taping of the signals but no one has said anything about anyone on the Pats sidelines looking for the signals and then calling a play based on inside knowledge of what the other team was going to do.

No, they just had a bunch of blank tapes around that they figured they'd fill for the hell of it.

[Czarina]

Wow, the self righteous H.R. Puffenstuffery abounds. Do you guys want some tissue to wipe your tears?

 

How does the Herald not lose major amounts of credibility here? They whipped this non story up into a frenzy by suggesting Walsh had a tape of the walkthrough, which admittedly would have taken the scandal to a whole different level.

 

There are employees of all teams working to try to get competitive advantage for his team at every game. Tons of other well-known folks like Don Shula have said so. Where's the freakin' fire here?

 

BB, I think you really have no idea how the videotaping thing works or how long it would take to analyze it. After each play, is there a runner who takes the tape to the lockerroom to look at it? If the taper has 30 minutes of tape in hand on the sideline when the clock runs down, he's supposed to sprint into the control room, where a team of wizards is waiting to instantly absorb 30 minutes of tape in 20 minutes and figure out what it all means?

 

OK, ostensibly, let's say there's about 20 seconds of tape per play for the half, so it's not 30 minutes of tape. Even so, they would need to look at each one, match it against the tape of the play unfolding on the field -- which comes from a different source and look for the patterns. If they could get one signal in that short a time, I'd be amazed.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Czarina

[Patriots]

No, they just had a bunch of blank tapes around that they figured they'd fill for the hell of it.

 

 

But I want to know how they were used. You would think a former asst coach would have come forward with a story of how they knew signals on specific plays in specific games.

[bigrocks]

These 3 sentences, written by Dan Wetzel (Yahoo Sports) on May 9, 2008 say it all in my opinion:

 

"The truth is the Patriots enjoyed a strategic, if stolen, advantage as they built an improbable dynasty, and their once-fired coach was reinvented as a football genius. Belichick and his players, unquestionably, were great. But would they have been that great without the video?"

 

No one can question the Pats have been a very successful team over the past 7 or 8 years. And they certainly had to execute to make things happen on the field. But the manner in which they put themselves over the top is forever in question. There is way too much smoke to make me believe this is all just media hype.

 

Obviously, Pats fans don't want to believe their team is not really the "model NFL franchise", their coach is not the greatest mind in the league, and Brady is not the greatest QB to ever play -- but in my mind there is no way the Patriots would have been as successful had they not possessed some sort of unethical and extremely well-calculated advantage.

 

But, if you want to claim that all's fair in love and football and "every" team cheats, then I guess the Pats have claimed that title too.

[Bronco Billy]

BB, I think you really have no idea how the videotaping thing works or how long it would take to analyze it. After each play, is there a runner who takes the tape to the lockerroom to look at it? If the taper has 30 minutes of tape in hand on the sideline when the clock runs down, he's supposed to sprint into the control room, where a team of wizards is waiting to instantly absorb 30 minutes of tape in 20 minutes and figure out what it all means?

 

 

Normally you're the voice of sanity & reason here.

[AtomicCEO]

I've got a great idea... if you don't want your team to be called cheaters... don't get caught cheating.

 

You absolutely cannot defend someone caught red-handed by saying "Yeah, but it probably didn't help them." WHAT??? Of course it helped, or they would have stopped doing it illegally!!

 

After being told NOT to film defensive signals from the field, why would you continue to do it:

1) Because Bill was confused by what they meant by "field"

2) Because Bill had an irrational addiction to it, and you couldn't help himself

3) Because it HELPED THEM in an ILLEGAL way.

[budlitebrad]

Goodell's press conference is at 9am tomorrow and I doubt he'll add anything new. Maybe the media will finally realize that this issue has been dead for months and will let it go.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

I've got a great idea... if you don't want your team to be called cheaters... don't get caught cheating.

 

You absolutely cannot defend someone caught red-handed by saying "Yeah, but it probably didn't help them." WHAT??? Of course it helped, or they would have stopped doing it illegally!!

 

After being told NOT to film defensive signals from the field, why would you continue to do it:

1) Because Bill was confused by what they meant by "field"

2) Because Bill had an irrational addiction to it, and you couldn't help himself

3) Because it HELPED THEM in an ILLEGAL way.

that pretty much sums it up IMO.

[nhoops]

Wow, the self righteous H.R. Puffenstuffery abounds. Do you guys want some tissue to wipe your tears?

 

How does the Herald not lose major amounts of credibility here? They whipped this non story up into a frenzy by suggesting Walsh had a tape of the walkthrough, which admittedly would have taken the scandal to a whole different level.

 

There are employees of all teams working to try to get competitive advantage for his team at every game. Tons of other well-known folks like Don Shula have said so. Where's the freakin' fire here?

 

BB, I think you really have no idea how the videotaping thing works or how long it would take to analyze it. After each play, is there a runner who takes the tape to the lockerroom to look at it? If the taper has 30 minutes of tape in hand on the sideline when the clock runs down, he's supposed to sprint into the control room, where a team of wizards is waiting to instantly absorb 30 minutes of tape in 20 minutes and figure out what it all means?

 

OK, ostensibly, let's say there's about 20 seconds of tape per play for the half, so it's not 30 minutes of tape. Even so, they would need to look at each one, match it against the tape of the play unfolding on the field -- which comes from a different source and look for the patterns. If they could get one signal in that short a time, I'd be amazed.

 

Agree, unless there is another person involved with the walk through tape, if not the Herald or Walsh has some explaining to do. Walshes tapes were nothing new and were edited to include the signals and plays (from what I've heard). So they appear to be being used for future use, which is somthing that the Pats have said that they were used for. I just hope that they give as much press to any info that Walsh provided that was false as they have done to the cheating.

[Bill Swerski]

I've got a great idea... if you don't want your team to be called cheaters... don't get caught cheating.

 

You absolutely cannot defend someone caught red-handed by saying "Yeah, but it probably didn't help them." WHAT??? Of course it helped, or they would have stopped doing it illegally!!

 

+1

 

There's no question in my mind that the Pats were the best team in the NFL in '03, '04, and '07 - with or without illegal taping. But the attempts at damage control from some of the homers here is ridiculous. What BB did is indefensible, and defending him from the "haters" makes you look pretty silly. It's not like anybody thinks that the Pats cheated their way to all of those championships or is asking the Pats to return their three Lombardi Trophies.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Patriots]

+1

 

There's no question in my mind that the Pats were the best team in the NFL in '03, '04, and '07 - with or without illegal taping. But the attempts at damage control from some of the homers here is ridiculous. What BB did is indefensible, and defending him from the "haters" makes you look pretty silly. It's not like anybody thinks that the Pats cheated their way to all of those championships or is asking the Pats to return their three Lombardi Trophies.

 

I was just saying that I would like to know how they were used because I am just curious. I am not doubting that it helped them. I just think it would be interesting to find out how and how much.

 

On a side note - I love football in general and the fact that my favorite team cheated hurts.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

+1

 

There's no question in my mind that the Pats were the best team in the NFL in '03, '04, and '07 - with or without illegal taping. But the attempts at damage control from some of the homers here is ridiculous. What BB did is indefensible, and defending him from the "haters" makes you look pretty silly. It's not like anybody thinks that the Pats cheated their way to all of those championships or is asking the Pats to return their three Lombardi Trophies.

 

well unfortunately not everbody shares the same sentiment as you...and there are actually people,blinded by their hatred for the patriots, that think this is the worst crime ever committed

 

i mean take bronco billy for example...this guy is going out of his way trying to give us a time log on how these guys could use stolen signals during a game...lol...then you have guys like schlereth on espn talking down about the patriots when his own team violated the salary cap...lol

 

im glad you know it....but there are alot of people who are too thick to understand this has no real effect on the run the patriots have been on...and it sucks to have your team run through the mud for it....you have a team at 18-0 on the verge of making history...and all of the sudden allegations are popping up about a superbowl walkthrough tape that never existed?

 

you have clowns on espn talking about how they picked off kordell stewart in the afc title game twice...as if kordell stewart was a marksman....he had open guys on those throws and sailed them over their heads...lolol

 

tom brady just compared espn to mtv on EEI

[Czarina]

The horse is dead so stop kicking it, is all I'm saying. Many people have been relishing the smear on the Pats. Turns out the whole walkthrough thing never even happened and personally, I think it makes those "haters" look like fools now for buying rumor hook, line and sinker. Yep, the Pats broke the rules, yep they got punished for it. End of story.

[AtomicCEO]

There's no question in my mind that the Pats were the best team in the NFL in '03, '04, and '07 - with or without illegal taping.

 

Quantify this.

 

im glad you know it....but there are alot of people who are too thick to understand this has no real effect on the run the patriots have been on

 

This flies in the face of all logic.

 

The team won a whole bunch of games while doing illegal shady things, yet you claim "They definitely would have won without cheating". I'd say that this is a statement which cannot be proven, and I'd hesitate to give a bunch of cheaters the benefit of the doubt. Call me old-fashioned.

 

Yes, the Pats won almost all of their games in 2007 while under scrutiny, but this is like saying a weightlifter wasn't assisted by steroids because he stopped taking them last month.

[keggerz]

Wow, the self righteous H.R. Puffenstuffery abounds. Do you guys want some tissue to wipe your tears?

 

How does the Herald not lose major amounts of credibility here? They whipped this non story up into a frenzy by suggesting Walsh had a tape of the walkthrough, which admittedly would have taken the scandal to a whole different level.

 

There are employees of all teams working to try to get competitive advantage for his team at every game. Tons of other well-known folks like Don Shula have said so. Where's the freakin' fire here?

 

BB, I think you really have no idea how the videotaping thing works or how long it would take to analyze it. After each play, is there a runner who takes the tape to the lockerroom to look at it? If the taper has 30 minutes of tape in hand on the sideline when the clock runs down, he's supposed to sprint into the control room, where a team of wizards is waiting to instantly absorb 30 minutes of tape in 20 minutes and figure out what it all means?

 

OK, ostensibly, let's say there's about 20 seconds of tape per play for the half, so it's not 30 minutes of tape. Even so, they would need to look at each one, match it against the tape of the play unfolding on the field -- which comes from a different source and look for the patterns. If they could get one signal in that short a time, I'd be amazed.

Stop trying to figure out HOW they garnered any advantage and just realize that they cheated, they broke the rules and if you or anyone else thinks they didn't get some sort of advantage then they are just crazy. Do we really think that Billy The Cheat taped just for the sake of taping

 

 

I've got a great idea... if you don't want your team to be called cheaters... don't get caught cheating.

You absolutely cannot defend someone caught red-handed by saying "Yeah, but it probably didn't help them." WHAT??? Of course it helped, or they would have stopped doing it illegally!!

 

After being told NOT to film defensive signals from the field, why would you continue to do it:

1) Because Bill was confused by what they meant by "field"

2) Because Bill had an irrational addiction to it, and you couldn't help himself

3) Because it HELPED THEM in an ILLEGAL way.

Fixed

 

The horse is dead so stop kicking it, is all I'm saying. Many people have been relishing the smear on the Pats. Turns out the whole walkthrough thing never even happened and personally, I think it makes those "haters" look like fools now for buying rumor hook, line and sinker. Yep, the Pats broke the rules, yep they got punished for it. End of story.

Isn't it just as sad that blind homers try to act as if for the most part that this isn't/wasn't a big deal. Like it or not, Billy the Cheat has ensured that the Patriots organization as well as their run under him has been tarnished and rightfully so. I guess as long as a team wins (or won) that it is ok to look the other way. All I know is that if this were the Eagles (or any other organization that I root for) and I found out that Andy Reid (or any other coach for a team i root for) did something like this I would be calling for his head but hey thats just me. Unfortunately, it seems that winning is all that matters and sportsmanship has to take a back seat.

Edited May 14, 2008 by keggerz

[Bill Swerski]

The team won a whole bunch of games while doing illegal shady things, yet you claim "They definitely would have won without cheating".

 

Nice try, but that's not what I said. I said that they were the best team in the NFL in those years, and that's a subjective statement to boot.

[keggerz]

Nice try, but that's not what I said. I said that they were the best team in the NFL in those years, and that's a subjective statement to boot.

you know that begs the question of how do the players from those teams really feel? I mean don't you think that the players would want to win legitimately? I mean what sort of confidence does it show in your team if you have to cheat to win?

Edited May 14, 2008 by keggerz