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muck
Holy crap.

whacko2.gif
budlitebrad
Bolt>Phelps
SLAYER
Was that insane or what
Flip_Side
Dude is amazing. He could have gone way faster than the world record he broke.
tbimm
I'm going to say it. No way he is naturally that much faster than everyone else! Phelps won em all but really could never coast to the win except for one race.
Flip_Side
^what's that supposed to mean?
Chief Dick
Teach him how to catch a football and send him on fly patterns all day long.

He could make some money doing that.
SLAYER
QUOTE (Chief Dick @ 8/17/08 6:43pm) *
Teach him how to catch a football and send him on fly patterns all day long.

He could make some money doing that.

Cowboys did it with Bob Hayes.
Puddy
QUOTE (Chief Dick @ 8/17/08 7:43pm) *
Teach him how to catch a football and send him on fly patterns all day long.

He could make some money doing that.


I was searching the innerwebs for the name of a sprinter who was drafted with some fanfare 15 or 20 years ago and didn't make it. Couldn't find it and his name still escapes me. However, I did find this article about an ex-Cowboy receiver who was once the fastest man on earth. Had a pretty nice career. Any of you old enough to remember him.


Hayes deserves better place in history
By Frank Luksa
Special to ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: March 28, 2008


Once considered the world's fastest man, Bob Hayes was a handful for opposing defenses. Despite averaging 20 yards per catch and being largely responsible for the advent of zone defenses, Hayes is often overlooked when the topic turns to WR greats.
It is now official, beyond quarrel or question. Bob Hayes is captain of the all-time All-Snub team.


The monopoly of indifference toward the former Dallas Cowboys receiver's NFL career has received another jolt of nonsupport. This time it was from an ESPN.com panel that help select the top 10 receivers in NFL history. Hayes wasn't on the list even though Terrell Owens made it and Raymond Berry didn't.

The top 10 list included:

(1) Jerry Rice; (2) Randy Moss; (3) Don Hutson; (4) Michael Irvin; (5) Paul Warfield; (6) Charley Taylor; (7) Steve Largent; (8) Cris Carter; (9) Owens; (10) Marvin Harrison.

Thus the post-career fate of the fastest man ever to play pro football, or anything else, continued to languish as an historical footnote. Hayes should rate an everlasting headline as the player whose speed reconfigured how the game was played during the 1960s and influenced how the game is played today, almost a half-century later.

As rejections go, this was the third for Hayes in recent years. The Pro Football Hall of Fame was the first major entity to bar its door to him for reasons never made clear to me as a selection committee member from 1976-2000. He became the Veterans Committee candidate years later but again failed to gain approval.

In addition to Berry, who belongs with any top-10 class of receivers, others who compiled the list were Ken Houston, Warren Moon, Keyshawn Johnson, Mike Holmgren, Boyd Dowler and Green Bay general manager Ted Thompson.

There are distant voices who disagree with the exclusion of Hayes.

"I doubt that there has ever been anyone who revolutionized the offensive game the way Bobby did," said Don Meredith, the first quarterback to team with Hayes. "His amazing speed forced the defense to do a complete re-evaluation of what it had to do to stop him.''

I can't testify that there wasn't some form of zone coverage before Hayes entered the NFL in 1965. But there were a lot more zones thereafter. Man coverage against Hayes was a fool's pursuit. No one could run with the world record holder in the 100-yard and 100-meter dashes; the sprinter who won the 100 meters during the 1964 Olympic Games wearing a borrowed shoe and who, with a running start, was timed in an astonishing 8.6 on the anchor leg of the winning 400-meter relay.

The most sincere display of NFL speed Hayes produced occurred in the Cotton Bowl against the New York Giants in 1966. It amounted to a 50-yard duel after Hayes caught a short pass and turned toward the end zone with cornerback Clarence Childs, a world-class sprinter, two strides behind. Off they flew in open field, until Hayes scored without Childs gaining an inch on him.

I asked Bobby after the game if he worried that Childs might catch him. Hayes dismissed the idea as absurd.

"Naw, he's just an ol' 9.3 man,''' he scoffed.

A new dimension had joined the NFL and left it dizzy searching for a response. Hayes caught 45 touchdown passes during his first four seasons, a figure then topped by only Hutson's 47. He made every Cowboys rival nervous.

"Any team that prepares for the Cowboys has got to make adjustments for Hayes,'' said former Detroit Lions coach Joe Schmidt. "He may not catch a lot of balls, but he can catch one and beat you.''

Hayes did not have flashy stats compared with the modern receivers. He caught 371 passes, a modest number by present standards, worth 7,414 yards and 71 touchdowns. But a telltale figure lies within: Hayes averaged 20.0 yards per catch over the length of his career.

"If he never catches a pass, he's worth a couple of touchdowns,'' said then-Cowboys teammate Dan Reeves, referring to how coverage of Hayes benefited others.

His brilliance is defined by a seven-year span ('65-'71) in which he caught 67 touchdown passes and averaged 20.6 yards on 321 receptions. Among his touchdown catches were cross-country adventures measuring 82, 95, 89 and 85 yards.

The only defense that made sense was to borrow strategy from Wile. E. Coyote, even if his quest to trap the beep-beep roadrunner always failed. Teams retreated in the secondary and lay in wait for Hayes to come to them. Hence he forced the advent of deep zones and their spin-off variations.

''There's no one who can make a defense commit itself as much as Hayes can,'' Spider Lockhart, a New York Giants defensive back from 1965-75, once said of Hayes.

Few are aware that Hayes returned 104 punts for an 11.1-yard average and three touchdowns. He lacks credit there and for a sprinkling (23) of kickoff runbacks averaging 25.3 yards. Nor did Hayes play a season longer than 14 games, thereby reducing his career numbers against those working the 16-game schedule adopted in 1978.

Resistance to anointing Hayes as unique and worthy of special attention is embedded like the fossilized footprint of dinosaurs. Yet note that there's a short roll call of those who were active in the NFL during the '60s. Most who evaluate Hayes never saw him play or felt the electricity of all-the-way suspense he brought to crowds at every site.

Hayes left fodder for his critics. He was not a physical player. That can't be denied, and probably cost him points with judges. I'll always believe that a 10-second film clip from the Ice Bowl forever soured his shot at Hall of Fame induction. It's of Hayes flanked wide, both hands stuffed in his pants on nonpassing plays. The scene is damning enough for an anti-Hayes lean to discount anything he did before or thereafter.

Then there's the post-career, five-year sentence for distributing cocaine to an undercover cop posing as a friend. All who knew Hayes' nonthreatening persona found him guilty only of naive blunder. His last years were also unkind, marked by alcoholism and illness.

Hayes, who died in 2002 at age 59, has been eliminated from special tribute across the board. It takes someone who witnessed his NFL journey to champion a lost cause. When guys like me are gone, who'll be left to remember?
tbimm
QUOTE (Flip_Side @ 8/17/08 5:53pm) *
^what's that supposed to mean?

He is doping!
keggerz
Can't believe this hasn't been used yet

out.gif
Puddy
QUOTE (Puddy @ 8/17/08 10:18pm) *
I was searching the innerwebs for the name of a sprinter who was drafted with some fanfare 15 or 20 years ago and didn't make it. Couldn't find it and his name still escapes me.

Don't ask me how but the bastages name suddenly came to me...Renaldo Nehemiah.

Link

QUOTE
Football career
In 1982 Nehemiah worked out for several NFL teams, including the Pittsburgh Steelers and the San Francisco 49ers and ended up signing with the 49ers in a blaze of publicity and high expectations. During his three years as a wide receiver he caught 43 passes for 754 yards, a 17.5 average, and 4 touchdowns. Although he was part of the Super Bowl winning team in the 1984 season, he did not play a major role. His football career was a failure - indeed, it represents one of the most glaring mistakes ever made by 49er head coach Bill Walsh - winning Nehemiah a comparison to the track star Jimmie (Oops) Hines, who won his infamous nickname for his inability to catch the ball. Nehemiah returned to track in 1986. He managed to achieve world rankings four more times before retiring from Athletics after the 1991 season.


Ursa Majoris
QUOTE (tbimm @ 8/17/08 9:25pm) *
He is doping!

He's a piece of string. He isn't doping.
Furd
Willie Gault was an accomplished sprinter. He had a decent career.
detlef
Dude's probably got some nice paydays ahead of him on the track. He should do fine with endorsements and appearance fees. Track and Field is much bigger elsewhere than it is here.

I can't imagine why he'd risk his body to play NFL. He'll be making 7 figures for a while now easy and it's not like someone's going to pay him TO money considering he's never actually played the game.
whomper
Not to mention he has an awesome last name for a track star
Puddy
QUOTE (whomper @ 8/18/08 9:43am) *
Not to mention he has an awesome last name for a track star

Or for the Chargers.
Stalking_Eagle
That dude could play catch with himself.
Flip_Side
detlef has a point.
budlitebrad
Just broke the world record in the 200.

QUOTE
The Jamaican wunderkind hurtled to his second world record and his second Olympic gold medal, finishing the 200-meter race Wednesday night in 19.30 seconds to break Michael Johnson's 12-year-old mark.

Bolt became the first man to break the world record in both the 100 and 200 at the same Olympics. Not since Carl Lewis in 1984 has any man doubled in the Olympic 100 and 200.


Wow.
Flip_Side
Amazing.
whomper
QUOTE (Puddy @ 8/18/08 12:19pm) *
Or for the Chargers.



Or if he owned a hardware store
Puddy
QUOTE (whomper @ 8/21/08 8:54am) *
Or if he owned a hardware store

laughing.gif

Straight to Hollywood.
HowboutthemCowboys
QUOTE (whomper @ 8/21/08 8:54am) *
Or if he owned a hardware store

laughing.gif You've been on a roll lately.
Puddy
3rd gold as the Jamaicans win the 4 x 100 relay as well in world record time.
Slapstick_Willy
i like his shoes moon.gif
budlitebrad
QUOTE (Flip_Side @ 8/17/08 3:25pm) *
Dude is amazing. He could have gone way faster than the world record he broke.


BERLIN -- Usain Bolt saved the celebration for after the finish line this time and showed that, yes, he can keep breaking that world record.

He obliterated it, in fact.

Bolt ran 100 meters in 9.58 seconds Sunday at world championships, turning his showdown against Tyson Gay into a rout and putting to rest the questions that went unanswered last time he set the record -- at his showboating Olympic run of 9.69 seconds.

Yes, he can do better when he goes all out the whole way. Yes, he can break 9.6.

It was the biggest change in the record since electronic time was introduced in 1968. It came very close to the 9.55-second time that an American professor said Bolt would have run in Beijing had he run all out in the Olympic 100 finals.

Under ideal conditions and facing the toughest competition possible, Bolt blew away his own world record by .11 seconds on the one-year anniversary of the last world record. Gay, meanwhile, set the American record by finishing in 9.71, a time that would have been a world record 12 months and one day ago, but was an afterthought instead.
wildcat2334
had to bump this as he shattered the 200m WR today.

The best Athlete on The Panet. Period., End Of Story. Mind- Boggling what he is doing, this is a once in a lifetime type dude.

If anyone says Michael Phelps or Lance Armstrong is the best athlete they need to be punched squarely in the face


detlef
QUOTE (wildcat2334 @ 8/20/09 8:05pm) *
had to bump this as he shattered the 200m WR today.

The best Athlete on The Panet. Period., End Of Story. Mind- Boggling what he is doing, this is a once in a lifetime type dude.

If anyone says Michael Phelps or Lance Armstrong is the best athlete they need to be punched squarely in the face

Just silly

Did they drop him into the Iowa HS State finals or was that actually the World Championships? He just crushed the field.
Puddy
It's sad that when these type of impressive accomplishments happen I can't help but think about steroids. sad.gif
wildcat2334
QUOTE (Puddy @ 8/21/09 9:53am) *
It's sad that when these type of impressive accomplishments happen I can't help but think about steroids. sad.gif



I know - but the thing with Bolt is, he has been a prodigy since he was 14 - he has set world records since he was a young lad

whomper
QUOTE (Puddy @ 8/21/09 12:53pm) *
It's sad that when these type of impressive accomplishments happen I can't help but think about steroids. sad.gif



The first step in beating addiction is admiting you have a problem. Keep it up bro thmbup.gif
Puddy
QUOTE (whomper @ 8/24/09 3:30pm) *
The first step in beating addiction is admiting you have a problem. Keep it up bro thmbup.gif

laughing.gif
Dallas Sooners
QUOTE (SLAYER @ 8/17/08 9:09pm) *
Cowboys did it with Bob Hayes.


Bob Hayes is in the Hall of Fame, because he was a football player that ran track. Not a track guy, trying to play football.

Terrible analogy.
Dallas Sooners
QUOTE (wildcat2334 @ 8/20/09 7:05pm) *
had to bump this as he shattered the 200m WR today.

The best Athlete on The Panet. Period., End Of Story. Mind- Boggling what he is doing, this is a once in a lifetime type dude.

If anyone says Michael Phelps or Lance Armstrong is the best athlete they need to be punched squarely in the face



How can you say being the fasted runner, makes you the best athlete. Dude is the fastest man alive, and this record may never be broken unless he does it. But what Lance Armstrong did, for years is more impressive IMO, in those mountains where he just ran away from everyone else. Speed is something that can be improved upon, but there is no endurance involved in it.

The best athletes in the world are basketball players. What Lebron can do it amazing. Bolt isnt on his level in the least bit athletically.

Ursa Majoris
QUOTE (Dallas Sooners @ 8/24/09 6:20pm) *
The best athletes in the world are basketball players.

Top class soccer players are better athletes.
muck
200 meters = 19.19 seconds
muck
100 meters = 9.59 --- with some EXTRAORDINARY commentary
Dallas Sooners
QUOTE (Ursa Majoris @ 8/24/09 7:06pm) *
Top class soccer players are better athletes.



How are they better than Lebron.
piratesownninjas
QUOTE (Ursa Majoris @ 8/24/09 7:06pm) *
Top class soccer players are better athletes.

gegree
Ursa Majoris
QUOTE (Dallas Sooners @ 8/24/09 9:09pm) *
How are they better than Lebron.

Run faster, play longer, wider range of athletic ability.
wildcat2334
QUOTE (Dallas Sooners @ 8/24/09 4:20pm) *
How can you say being the fasted runner, makes you the best athlete. Dude is the fastest man alive, and this record may never be broken unless he does it. But what Lance Armstrong did, for years is more impressive IMO, in those mountains where he just ran away from everyone else. Speed is something that can be improved upon, but there is no endurance involved in it.

The best athletes in the world are basketball players. What Lebron can do it amazing. Bolt isnt on his level in the least bit athletically.



listen, Private I am the biggest hoops fan around- I freaking love the game and I agree with you to a point.... I would say the best OVERALL athletes are probably NBA players, AND skill guys in the NFL - I think both provide the necessary all around skills and guys like Lebron, Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, MJ, etc are freaks of nature BUT

I just think for now, the way BOLT is smashing world record and dominating a world class field of incredible athletes is just too hard to ignore

Lance Armstrong? please - it is biking for gawds sake - cool sport and all but it is not played by the best athletes - more like short, slender dudes that weren't any good at other sports growing up - I think Lance himself got on a bike because he sucked at regular sports, and throw swimming and soccer in the same category - just not the same level of athlete as the NBA and NFL

wildcat2334
QUOTE (Ursa Majoris @ 8/24/09 8:09pm) *
Run faster, play longer, wider range of athletic ability.


laughing.gif

pure comedy - you can't be serious, a wider range of athletic ability in a sport that you can't use your hands?? right............................................

soccer sucks for a reason



muck
Put the following people in a varied athletic contest, and who does the best?

...assume they are all in their prime...

Pele (soccer)
Wayne Gretzky (hockey)
Alex Rodriguez (baseball)
Michael Jordan (basketball)
Usain Bolt (track and field)
Bo Jackson (football)
Lance Armstrong (cycling)
Muhammad Ali (boxing)
Tiger Woods (golf)
Michael Phelps (swimming)
Roger Federer (tennis)

I consider athletic ability to be a combination of strength, agility, stamina, quickness and mental toughness. So, put everyone through the following drills to see how they stack up in these five areas to see who is the "best athlete" ... who do you think would win?

Strength:
* bench press (max)
* bench press (reps at 225lbs)
* squat (max)
* squat (reps at 225lbs)
* pullups (total)


Agility / Hand-Eye Coordination:
* homerun derby off a pitching machine
* fastest short cone drill (from NFL pre-draft drills)
* 100 meter hurdles
* fastest speedbag (boxing -- # of hits in 2 minutes)
* homerun derby competition (pitching machine and 300 foot fences)

Stamina / mental toughness:
* 10 mile run
* 1 mile swim
* 36 holes of golf in one day, walk and carry own bags
* 40 mile bike ride
* run stairs (don't know; some crazy number of stairs in the ______ stadium / fieldhouse / coleseum)

Quickness:
* swimming 50 meters free style
* 1 v 1 hoops tournament (triple elimination)
* 20 meter sprint from walking start
* fastest "ladder" (old hoops drill ... baseline to free throw line to base line to half court to baseline to opposite free throw line to base line to opposite baseline)
* playing hockey goalie -- stopping slap-shots (25 hit at you, per competitor)

***************************

All items are timed, measured or otherwise quantified to see who is the best athlete.

NOTE: Best athlete is different than the best champion, because in team sports, that requires team work ... in solo-sports, it is more determined by will power and a unique skill.
SheikYerbuti
QUOTE (wildcat2334 @ 8/25/09 12:03am) *
I think Lance himself got on a bike because he sucked at regular sports


Lance was an accomplished Triathlete before he dropped the running and swimming to concentrate on the bike.

Thanks for playing.
detlef
QUOTE (SheikYerbuti @ 8/25/09 10:01am) *
Lance was an accomplished Triathlete before he dropped the running and swimming to concentrate on the bike.

Thanks for playing.

Beat me to it.

Specifically, it's not like any little dude could become a great cyclist if he wanted to. These guys have freakishly efficient motors. I've competed in cycling, triathalons, and the like for much of my life. There's always some kid who would come along, having just started riding, or swimming, or what have you and just smoke everyone save the few who are not only as talented as him but have also been training. If it was just a matter of training like a mother, this wouldn't happen. But it's not, because the best athletes will rise to the top regardless of what sport they choose.

That said, in general I agree that NBA players as a whole are the best athletes. Mostly because of the outrageous combo of size and skill. We've all known guys 6'6" or taller in our lives and nearly all of them are clumsy oafs. These guys are essentially superheros. Soccer players may have better stamina and marginally better agility, but you should expect that from guys who are that much smaller.

That said part II. I still agree that Bolt is the greatest athlete alive. Just because, prior to him arriving, it appeared we'd sort of reached a stage in sprinting where we'd pretty much milked all we could out of the human body. That it was taking a perfect day, barely legal tailwinds, and a super tight field for guys to even knock a few hundreths off the WR. Now this guy comes along and makes a total mockery of the world's best. In a way that nobody else has done. He's crushing world record despite not being pushed or even running through the tape. Sure, it was Michael and everyone else, it's Tiger and everyone else. But it's not like Tiger goes out and shoots a 60 every time out, which would likely be a fair comparison to what Bolt is doing. The Jordan thing is tough because of the team aspect.

Lance completely dominated his sport as well, but Lance also had the best team. Many of his former support riders are now the top riders in the sport.
wildcat2334


Muck to answer your question it is BO JACKSON by a mile - he is the best overall athlete in our lifetime.

The dude was a once in a generation RB who also was a a MLB ALl star and damn good baseball player -

I don't think anyone would be even close to him
wildcat2334
QUOTE (detlef @ 8/25/09 8:13am) *
Beat me to it.

Specifically, it's not like any little dude could become a great cyclist if he wanted to. These guys have freakishly efficient motors. I've competed in cycling, triathalons, and the like for much of my life. There's always some kid who would come along, having just started riding, or swimming, or what have you and just smoke the competition. If it was just a matter of training like a mother, this wouldn't happen. But it's not, because the best athletes will rise to the top regardless of what sport they choose.

That said, in general I agree that NBA players as a whole are the best athletes. Mostly because of the outrageous combo of size and skill. We've all known guys 6'6" or taller in our lives and nearly all of them are clumsy oafs. These guys are essentially superheros. Soccer players may have better stamina and marginally better agility, but you should expect that from guys who are that much smaller.

That said part II. I still agree that Bolt is the greatest athlete alive. Just because, prior to him arriving, it appeared we'd sort of reached a stage in sprinting where we'd pretty much milked all we could out of the human body. That it was taking a perfect day, barely legal tailwinds, and a super tight field for guys to even knock a few hundreths off the WR. Now this guy comes along and makes a total mockery of the world's best. In a way that nobody else has done. He's crushing world record despite not being pushed or even running through the tape. Sure, it was Michael and everyone else, it's Tiger and everyone else. But it's not like Tiger goes out and shoots a 60 every time out, which would likely be a fair comparison to what Bolt is doing. The Jordan thing is tough because of the team aspect.

Lance completely dominated his sport as well, but Lance also had the best team. Many of his former support riders are now the top riders in the sport.


solid points - I have a ton of respect for triathletes, and cycling - I think it is cool as chit and an awesome test of endurance and toughness. I just that it is a giant reach to try and compare these types of athletes to NBA or NFL guys - it is apples and oranges IMO - the thing is the best athletes in the US are playing basketball and football , they are not getting on a bike training for the Tour De France -

to me a big part of being in any "best athlete" conversation is crossover - someone who has the ability to excel in different sports at a high level. Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, Lebron James, Allen Iverson, Antonio Gates, - these guys are freaks

I have never seen a better overall athlete than Bo Jackson
detlef
QUOTE (wildcat2334 @ 8/25/09 11:33am) *
solid points - I have a ton of respect for triathletes, and cycling - I think it is cool as chit and an awesome test of endurance and toughness. I just that it is a giant reach to try and compare these types of athletes to NBA or NFL guys - it is apples and oranges IMO - the thing is the best athletes in the US are playing basketball and football , they are not getting on a bike training for the Tour De France -

to me a big part of being in any "best athlete" conversation is crossover - someone who has the ability to excel in different sports at a high level. Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, Lebron James, Allen Iverson, Antonio Gates, - these guys are freaks

I have never seen a better overall athlete than Bo Jackson

FWIW, I don't think that cyclists or even triathaletes are the best athletes out there. I just thought you took it a bit far with the bit about them sucking at other sports and thus simply chose these sports. That would imply that the only thing one needed to excel in these endurance sports was the commitment to train hard, and that is simply not true.
wildcat2334
QUOTE (SheikYerbuti @ 8/25/09 7:01am) *
Lance was an accomplished Triathlete before he dropped the running and swimming to concentrate on the bike.

Thanks for playing.



right

something tells me old Lance would have given his right nut to be a star on the football or basketball team in high school instead of out doing roadwork or swimming laps...............
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