Of the top 30 players in total points, there isn't one WR/TE/Def. The top 12 are QB's, and all playoff teams have a top 5 QB.

Top QB - Brees at 324.

Top WR - Boldin at 171.

Top Defense = 151.

If having Brees makes me lose the most, it's worth it. What I'm proposing isn't meant to start a riot... I just want you guys to think about it now before a month away from the draft next year. Change is good...

Proposed changes:

QB - TD's worth 4 instead of 6. 2 point bonus for 25+ yard TD's, 4 points for 50+ (doesn't happen often), and 6 points for 75+ (very rare). -2 for int/fum.
WR - 0.5 PPR, 6 points for any TD (punt/kick returns count). -2 fum
RB - 0.25 PPR, 6 points per TD (punt and kick returns count). -2 fum.
TE - 1 PPR, 6 points TD. -2 fum.
Def - 0 points against +10 (you can't lose with 0 points against, and it doesn't happen often). +1 point for every point under 20 (14 points against = 6), and -1 point for 25+ (40 points against = -15). Add some petty point system like .01 points yard for special teams kick return yards, as this will break ties. 5 points for a safety (rare and is worth more than 2).

Brees scored 13.38 in the proposed scoring system in Thursday's game, and 19.38 in the current scoring system.
Chicago D scored 11 in the current scoring system Thursday night, and 11 in the proposed system. It only gets very different when the D gives up 25+ or holds them under 20.
Pierre Thomas scored 26.6 in Thursday's game in the current scoring system, and 30.35 in the proposed system.

I like this scoring system as it spreads out the positions... food for thought.

how about starting 2 QBs? i'm not in any league where i do this and i think it would be challenging. it would help to equalize the position and add a whole new dimension to the game ...

I have to admit, the extremely skewed scoring of this league has been just starting to irritate me this year. I think it's because all of my other leagues either incorporate a flex in the lineup or some form of PPR (or both).

I'd be in favor of tweaking the scoring, and your proposed system doesn't look bad.

I don't agree. The proposed scoring looks too much like other leagues I'm in. I like the 6 pts for a passing TD simply because it's different.

So, you like the fact QB's dominate the rest of the positions by approx. 2:1? What about "it's different" do you like? We could make FG worth 25, and then kickers would dominate.

I also disagree with bonus points (I hate "bonus" points in all circumstances) and disagree that a safety is worth 5. It is worth 2.

since we're talking about changing what peoples' keepers are worth compared to other peoples' keepers, it would need to be a unanimous vote. I'm not opposed to changing per se, it just never seems like an easy thing to do in a keeper league.

also, the QB thing. it seems like this same argument comes up 10 times a year. and so yet again I will point out what seems obvious to me. it doesn't really matter what brees scores relative to boldin. that by itself doesn't make brees more valuable. brees, as the top QB in the league this year, averaged 23.348 points per game this year. mcnabb, the #12 QB, averaged 18.663. that is four and a half points per game difference between the top starter in the league and what would equate to the worst starter.

boldin averaged 14.458. the #12 WR averaged 10.443. 4 points difference. the #36 (equivalent to the worst WR starter) scored 7.160. about 7 and a half points difference. if you use their positional averages as the baseline, boldin was more valuable than brees.

QBs score high, yes. but it doesn't really impact the balance of the league in the big picture.

for a few years now I've been wanting to do a 12 team league that starts 2 Qbs, 3 RBs, 4 WRs and 2 TEs. I think that would be very interesting. would probably have to be a new league though, not a change to an existing keeper.

How often do safeties happen? When a defense not only gets you 2 points on the board, but also gets the offense the ball in great field position, should that be (from a team defense perspective) worth as much as a pick? If you’re so resistant to change that any change is bad because it’s different, then you’ll find a reason to kill any proposed change if 100% consensus is required to change it.

Thought this was interesting… http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/09/wh...ally-worth.html

I see your point, to some extent, but disagree that it’s all a wash in the end. Many leagues I used to be in favored RB’s so highly that if you didn’t have two good backs, you were toast. Drafts were very predictable, and since the RB position was so elevated, it made building a complete team secondary to building a RB quality team. The same holds true for this scoring system... you need a top QB to win, and if you don't already have it, you can't make up for it with strength in other positions.

The delta to reach a 100 point difference in QB is Brees at 350, to #10 Tyler Thigpen at 253 (8 QB’s in between). For a 50 point delta, you’d have to go to #5 in Cassel at 296 (only 3 QB’s in between). For WR’s, the 100 point delta is very different. Fitzgerald #1 at 190 to Michael Jenkins #38 at 90 (36 players in between), and a 50 point delta at #14 in Hines Ward at 140 (12 WR’s in between). That’s just the delta in point differential, but in actual points the ratio of the #5 WR in Boldin at 173 is 125 points less than the #5 QB Cassel. For TE’s, to reach a 100 point delta is going from #1 in Gonzo at 154, to #24 in Martellus Bennet (who?) at 50.

The way I see this, is that predictably among repeat QB’s doing well season after season in a keeper league make it next to impossible to bridge this gap without some luck from injury. You can’t put up two solid WR’s against a top 5 QB and make up the difference. The wealth isn’t spread around, but since I have Brees it bodes well for winning the division next year. I really don’t see why we need 100% consensus, when majority should rule any vote.

The whole Delta thing would be more convincing if this was a total points league but it's not. It's H2H and therefore Az's point about average is more relevant, IMO. We only start 1 QB but start 3 WRs so your point about the spread of a 100 point delta actually harms your argument more than it helps it. The 100 point delta for WRs covers 36 players, neatly giving each team three, all other things being equal.

Also, Thigpen at #10 overall was undrafted, of course, which undermines your point about not being able to bridge the gap if you don't have Brees et al. QBs like Thigpen come along once or twice a season (think Schaub replacing Vick, for instance or Cassel replacing Brady) and so the waiver wire gambler CAN compete on the QB front. I will bet Thigpen is either kept or goes in the pre-draft supplementary rounds in 2009.

A pick or fumble recovery can give your team DEF a TD also, never mind good field position. I just don't think a safety is that exceptional as it is very often the result of poor QB or other offensive play (Orlovsky, I'm looking at you).

Bonus points are just horribly arbitrary. I play in a league that rewards a 50+ yard TD with 5+ points for the yards (0.1 points per yard, as is usual), 6 for the TD and 5 more bonus points for the length of the TD. That's 16 points minimum for one play and, IMO, insanely unbalanced. Yet an RB going 49 yards for the TD gets 10.9. What makes the 50 yard effort worth, in effect, 2 TDs plus yards when the 49 yard effort is just worth one plus yards (as it should be)? Isn't there automatic yardage reward for the extra length without piling on even more?

Bonuses introduce another layer of pure luck that FF absolutely does not need. We all know that much luck is involved already - we don't need more.

I won this league last year (2007) with vince young as my top QB; fitzgerald and wayne were clearly the backbone of my team. jabberwocks and bruzers (with peyton and brady respectively) both missed the playoffs. the facts are a stubborn thing, and here they prove that your argument doesn't really hold water.

QBs getting 6 vs 4 doesn't really change the face of a league. it just doesn't. PPR changes it a little more. but what REALLY changes it is starting lineup requirements.