Let me lead this off by saying I've spent some time in Philly and absolutely love it, but what the heck is wrong with some of you? You throw batteries at opposing teams' players, booed Santa Claus coming onto the field, cheered when Michael Irvin got hurt... and now you're using laser pointers at Phillie games to try screwing with opposing team's batters?

Wow.

Oh, and in case you have no clue what I'm talking about.... I'm sure there'll be a story on what happened online very soon. Julio Lugo (STL) was at bat and some jackass was apparently shining a green laser pointer at him while at bat. Boo.

that sums it up right there....the santa thing you can google to get the real story or I think search here because I think Swammi has explained it before (in detail)...

I have explained the santa thing as well...there is a backstory to it and the front office thought they could use santa as a safe way out for not living up to the billing they promoted for the game...

I forget who was supposed to perform at halftime...but the fans were genuinely pissed..

and when Irvin was hurt....I personally don't think that any sober fan cheered....there are definitely a lot of drunks in this town...

and today...it was definitely some jackass....we have been a bitter town...even after winning a world series, even though I am pretty happy with that win last year....a lot of people still carry that bitterness...

classless move....1 tool out of 43,000 fans will likely make the whole metropolitan area the worst fans on the planet yet again.

Irvin being hurt wasn't what was cheered....the debilitating hit was cheered, like it is in thousands of football games every year. This one got overblown because it happened to be a hit that ended Irvin's career. How many times is a QB sacked and knocked out a game and the crown goes wild? or a hockey game where someone is laid out by a vicious check and the crowd explodes?

That "Santa" thing a joke, and I'm shocked you even mentioned it.

Just let me say that I think the Phils are the team to beat for sure in the NL. The Cards may have something to say about it with the aquisition of Holliday, but the Phils pasted them 14-6 tonight. The way the Yanks and the Phils are playing right now would make for a great WS.

Signed,

A friendly fan from the western part of your state

I was in Philadelphia with two of friends for the Phils-Pirates game a couple weekends ago. I wore my Pirates gear both at the stadium, at the Holiday Inn and bar, and downtown. 97% of the Philly fans were awesome. There was some playful jeering back and fourth with those around my seat and also those that I ran into.

However, there was the 3%, who were just bitter and angry and wanted to fight. A younger me might have been swayed to get involved, but, the 34 year old version of me just laughs all of it off. These guys are just begging for you to say something back to them, so, that they can get it started. They are always surrounded by a group of friends, and always say something clever like "Go back to poopytsburgh. All of your teams suck." Of course, they are just hoping that I will say something like "All our teams suck ? The Steelers & Pens own you guys" so, that they can start their tough-guy routine. I also had a couple of people yell "No one wears another team's jersey in OUR city"

Now, is that 3% jackass rate higher than most cities.....perhaps slightly, but, it really is a shame, because most of the Philly fans I know, both in person and on this board, are passionate fans who know how to have fun with rivalries. Those guys hate the Philly fan reputation and are just as annoyed by the jackasses as the rest of us are, perhaps even more so. However, the jackasses love that reputation and like to build on it.

As for the Phillies, it must be damn fun to be a fan of this team and watch that lineup hit.

No doubt. But when someone's motionless the cheering does'nt usually get louder and louder.

All of this, to some degree, happens in almost every other major sports city. Slightly more in places like Philly, New York, and Oakland? Maybe. But nothing worth noting outside of the desire for some to wear it like a badge of honor or for others to attempt to put down another city's fans.

As others have said, "some jackass" sums it up.

Part of this was just a little but you gotta admit that the public perception "is what it is" for a reason... schit like this happens in Philly more than anywhere else.

Not a good day there.

Man killed outside the stadium last night.

no, ESPN talks about every little thing our fans do...while other cities like Cleveland and NY barely get a blurb...

probly had a Cards jersey on...

Trust me, I hate how ESPN over-sensationalizes everything and of course the lame-assed east coast bias rubs me the wrong way, too. I certainly know that there have been issues in other cities.... it just seems like many of the memorable ones happen in Philly. I don't need ESPN's blabber to know that.

Sad, but true.

of course...because when we boo a pick at the NFL draft...ESPN dwells on it for a decade.....(McNabb)

while Jets fans boo their pick every year and the panel just laughs...

and we're the only one's to cheer someone getting hurt.....err I mean we're the ones that get the incident mentioned the most...

I already gave my take on the Philly fan thing, but, do you think they just started doing this to Philly randomly ? Do you think the media just drew their name out of a hat and said, there, that is the fanbase we will pick on. I'm quite sure the fan base has earned the media attention.

Like I said before 97% of Philly fans are awesome, but, the 3% that love the media attention and reputation ruin it for the rest of them.

Pretty much all I was trying to convey, maybe with a bit of on the side.

exactly...but the media has taken certain instances that happened over time and they make them out to be bigger than they are...and when our fans are out of line...they say "Philly fans are at it again"....

while at the same time, they ignore similar situations in other cities...

really?...you made such a wonderful statement by rolling your eyes...

I believe it speaks volumes. Would you rather I use the one?

Wear a Boston shirt/hat/jersey to a Yankees game, and you will recieve torment for 9 straight innings.

no, because it just shows how thin your argument is...

So did you opt for the D-cells, or the lighter-yet-still-pack-a-punch C's?

C'mon Darin, you're better than this.

If anyone has been to a pro game where some adult beverages doesn't get that 3% Menudo is talking about a little over the line, I'd be surprised. I've seen a lot of loudmouth fans for a lot of different teams and have talked with some great fans for a lot of different teams. This includes the teams I root for and those I don't. But if anyone wants to sit here and pretend that some fights in the crowd, snowballs tossed at opposing players, and arguments between fans don't exist, they are delusional. It happens in every city whether people want to admit it or not.

I have been to Phillies games where I've never seen anyone hurt, maimed, kicked out, etc., so I would think it would take a fairly large sample size from games you've personally attended and seen this behavior to substantiate these types of comments. Otherwise, you are along for the ride like everyone else. It's nearly impossible to get that many people together in one place, toss in some sports and booze, and not have an issue. I think there are probably more friendly places to watch games than others, but it's not like there is a set of gallows in the basement of Citizens Bank Park for fans of other teams.

I have the die hard car battery that I pissed on....

I'm sorry man but that is really irresponsible. The departed was just a kid, maybe a little respect is in order... The people that did this are vicious animals and their actions are not typical to Phillies fans. I'm sure you know that... They caught the S.O.B.s

As far as the laser pointer is concerned, it was definitely classless and cowardly... Though, watching the game at home one of the announcers (not sure who) said that it was not the first time he had seen a laser pointer being used at a Major League Ballpark.

The other stuff is the just the stuff of legend... The stories are bigger than the actual events.
Michael Irvin... I don't know? I'm not sure the fans in the stadium knew that hit would end Irvin's career... It was a big hit. Big hits are exciting... I certainly don't remember cheering when the news came out the he was unable to play football.
Santa... That is funny stuff.
Donovan getting booed was orchestrated by 610WIP's Angelo Cataldi and his dirty dozen... He (and his cronies) went up to the draft and acted like the classless hater that is his radio persona...

I remember listening to 610 that week and they said they were going to boo any pick that was not Ricky Williams...

in hindsight, it makes it look even worse.....but this team hasn't had a top RB since Willie Montgomery...Charlie Garner was a food back here, but not on that level and Ricky Watters came here with an inflated ego...but his play didn't match his mouth...

Irresponsible? Maybe. But a fair assumption. You know how many people get in fights in Philly ( and I'm sure other parks) each year b/c they're wearing the visiting team's jersey?
I have no problem with the Philly fans that I know. My Bro in law is a Philly fan. I play in BOTH leagues with Philly fans. I'm sure that a large % of Philly fans are great people. That said, I've been to the Vet for a MNF game when Dallas was in town. It ain't tea and krumpets.

My respects to the family of the young man that was killed. It's a damn shame.

However, lighten up Francis...

EDIT: I've been to PNC Park twice when the Dodgers were in town. Wore my Dodgers hat and openly rooted for them. Noone even batted an eye. How do you think that would have worked out for me in Philly?

Oh... I'm light brother. I just saying that murder is not the typical behavior of any fan. In this instance it had nothing to do with opposing teams fans. This was the act of violent men with sick minds. We are going to disagree... And no. In these circumstances, I do not think it is a fair assumption.

I know about the fighting, never seen it, never been a party to it... If you had been sitting in my section we would have probably enjoyed the game... I have no problem with opposing teams fans. I had good time with some Cubs fans last season. Braves and Mets fans this season...

Again, I'm sure that not all Philly fans are jackasses. The ones posting here are trying to deny the reputation of Philly fans. That's cool. But there also alot that take that rep as a sort of badge of honor.

Hilarious...stay classy dodger fans...When a Philly fan openly roots for his team at dodger stadium

as I said before, there are a-holes at every stadium ( except PNC I guess, seriously).

I've only ever been to 1 NFL game, it was in Philly, and I would'nt dream of ever going there again.

At that point in the thread I was literally just / ... see below:





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I'll say this: there are crappy fans everywhere. It's pretty sad, actually.

Timely....Phil Sheridans column from today's Inquirer...

Philadelphia fans earn their reputation - again
By Phil Sheridan
Inquirer Sports Columnist

The list just keeps getting longer.

You know the highlights: booing Santa, cheering Michael Irvin's apparent paralysis, a stadium that required its own courtroom to handle the volume of arrests for drunken hooliganism. You can't help but know them, because they are recited like a litany every time some national broadcaster or journalist or blogger wants to take an easy shot at Philadelphia and its sports fans.

Two incidents Saturday reinforce the city's national image and raise, for roughly the billionth time, the question of why Philadelphia seems to be the epicenter of horrific fan behavior.

The more serious and tragic episode, of course, was the beating death of a 22-year-old man named David Sale in the parking lot outside Citizens Bank Park. Two men were charged yesterday in connection with Sale's killing, which occurred in the midst of a brawl that began inside McFadden's Restaurant and Bar during a Phillies game.

The other incident seems trivial by comparison but really is not. Saturday's game between the Phillies and St. Louis was stopped by umpires because a fan apparently used a laser pointer on several Cardinals. This is juvenile and stupid but also more dangerous than it first appears. Bad things can happen when a batter is distracted while a 90 m.p.h. fastball is coming at him.

The laser pointer belongs in the same class of idiot as the guy who shot a flare from the upper level of Veterans Stadium during an Eagles game.

The thugs who turned a baseball game into an excuse for brutal violence and death are in an entirely different category.

So why do these things happen here and not elsewhere?

The answer no one cares to hear is that they do indeed happen elsewhere. In April, a fan was killed - inside the ballpark - as fans left a Los Angeles Angels game in Anaheim. After the Dodgers' home opener a few days later, a fan was seriously injured in a stabbing in the parking lot. In 2003, a Dodgers fan was shot to death after a quarrel in the stadium's parking lot.

So what is the national stereotype of Southern California fans? They're laid back, more interested in celeb spotting and leaving early to beat traffic than in the outcomes of the games. A few savage beatings, stabbings and shootings aren't going to change that.

That is the reverse of Philadelphia's situation. To the rest of the world, we are the city that booed Santa, that throws dangerous objects at professional athletes, that brawls and boos and urinates in sinks, and intimidates fans of other teams, whether they're visiting here or attending games in their own home stadiums.

It would be naïve and dishonest to pretend we didn't earn the reputation, at least in part. And if you spend any time around Philadelphia fans, you can tell the rep inspires a sort of twisted pride as well as resentment at being stereotyped by outsiders. We're like those old-timers who talk about growing up in the roughest part of town as if it's a badge of honor.

But there's also an element - a small minority, usually fueled by adult beverages and childish impulses - that strives to live up to the rep. These are the people who can't see that line between passion and pride in your team and ignorant brutality. They can't see it, most of them, because they don't understand that it even exists.

Philadelphia fans probably can't change their image, at least not any time soon. But we can start acting to take the ballpark and the stadium and the arena and the parking lots back. If it really is true that most fans are responsible and well-behaved and passionate, and I believe (and hope) that it is, then they are the ones who have to take control.

You should be able to take your kids to an Eagles or Flyers game.

You should be able to enjoy a couple of lagers at the Bank without getting any spilled all over you by the overserved, underevolved guy in the row behind you.

You should be able to park your car and reach the stadium without fear of physical harm or verbal abuse, even if you're a woman.

A few months ago, there were reports about a system that allowed fans to alert stadium security with an anonymous text message. It seemed like something right out of Orwell. After this weekend, it doesn't seem like a bad idea at all.

If fans saw the imbecile with the laser pointer, they should have had him or her ejected long before the game was stopped.

The killing of a young member of a bachelor party is a tragedy beyond comprehension. While it is true that it could have happened anywhere - in any bar, in any city, on any Saturday night - the fact is that it happened at a baseball game in Philadelphia.

If that doesn't get us thinking and talking about what we're willing to accept and endure in the name of sports fandom, then David Sale truly died in vain.

That is an extremely well-written article. This guy has the same vie w I do, and stated it much clearer than I ever could.

werd - but some places are worse than others fo sure - Philly is at the top of anybody's list tho - just reality

I do agree with the article - alot of punks rolling thru Angel and Dodger games

I'm from CT but married into a Philly family who are all passionate about their local teams, especially the Eagles. Since 2005 I've been to about 12 Eagles games, 4 or 5 Phillies games and a Flyers game. The Flyers game was probably the best hockey experience of my life. The only idiot fans were Canadians rooting for the Leafs, drunk and hitting on girls.

I would put Citizens Bank Park up against any other baseball stadium in the country and have always found their fans to be awesome -- passionate and loud but I never witnessed any issues.

Now at the Eagles games is where the most elaborate tailgates happen. They start drinking around 7, and by 1:00, there are thousands of people completely wasted. I've seen lots urinating in the parking lot, huffing balloons and passing out, harrassing opposing fans, etc. The majority are well behaved even when intoxicated, if maybe a bit loud; it's a smaller percentage that cause all the issues. My in-laws have been going to games for years and know to ignore it, step around the vomit, etc, but as an outsider I was definitely blown away the first couple times I witnessed the scene. Inside the stadium, definitely the loudest sports experience I've seen. Lots of guys screaming and turning purple, cursing at anyone in an opposing jersey, etc. In fairness though, some of the creative and obscene taunts and insults are pretty funny, and are meant to be so. It's a very male environment, guys trying to outdo each other. But I've only seen one fight inside the stadium itself.

It's pretty much the same scene for concerts in Camden, except throw in more hard drugs and public sex. And oddly, they still do the Eagles chant.

After 4 years I've concluded that Philly is the most unique city I've ever seen and my favorite after NYC and Atlanta. It's hard to find fault with people who have a lust for living -- food, drink, sports, hot girls, music. It's like the volume is turned up just a little higher.

Can't say I would take a child under 12 to an Eagles game though.

Me neither. And that sucks.

really? Maybe its because I was born and raised here, and as Matt noted, have become oblivious to what outsiders view as vulgar and druken behavior. But having been from here, and having been a season ticket holder since 1983, I have to admit I have been one of those 70,000 out-of-his mind fans on too many occasions, especially when I was in my 20's-early 30's. I would imagine that scene plays out in parking lots & stadiums all around the country to varying degrees.

So would I take my son to a game in that environment? Nope, not until he's 14+, at a minimum. But I don't think that sucks at all. I think its good parenting, the same way I wouldn't take him to a concert where I knew there'd be drugs, or a St. Patty's Day parade where there were drunks throwing up in allys, or any other event/festivity where there were things he could witness that I couldn't adequately explain or want him exposed to.

It doesn't suck...its just reality. He'll be 10 in November, and I take him to Phils games galore, and he's been to a number of Sixers and Flyers games. But football games, based on the nature of the "event" that it is in Philly, is about tailgating, about drinking, about being able to cheer/chant/boo/abuse in any and every fashion imaginable.

And I can't wait until he can enjoy it fully for himself alongside me....just not yet. And when he does, I'll teach him the right way to root for the home team, to have fun, to be as loud as he can, and to love the Eagles the way I do.

well I have been to skins games in washington and let me tell you it isnt a cup of tea of a place for kids or opposing fans

Victorino gets Unexpected Shower

yeah, its just us Philly fans

No one is saying it is JUST Philly fans, or at least, they shouldn't be saying that. However, speaking from experience, I do think there is a higher percentage of the a-holes at Philly sporting events than others that I've been exposed to. Like I said before 95 to 97 percent are great, but, that 3 % is proud of the reputation and wants to keep it.

had the Victorino incident been the opposite....that is, a Philly fan dousing Soriano with beer as he was trying to make a catch....are you telling me the outcry wouldn't have been much much worse? It would have been all over the news...."There go those lousy Philly fans again".....there is no question the media and announcers have as much to do with our "reputation" as we do.

I am guessing anyone who wasn't specifically watching this game is likely unaware it even happened.

Swam, you know I love ya man, but yeah, of course it would have been worse. Why? Because there have been NUMEROUS incidents related to Philly fans, in multiple venues.... whereas in other cities, it's sporadic at best. Of COURSE there are d00shbags in every city, at every stadium... but over the course of the past, what, 20-ish years?.... Philly has had several, pretty intense/severe incidents.

Oh, and by the way, a Philly fan sitting in the bleachers was throwing popcorn at the guy (wrong guy, btw) they were pulling out for doing the beer-spill.

Do you think they spun a wheel and it landed on Philadelphia and that is why the media chooses to bring things up when they happen there ? Hell no.......The fans have EARNED that attention from the media.

Hmmm, lets see....in the last 5 years, a Chicago fan has left his seat to pummel a first-base coach, and another has thrown a beer at an imposing player, causing a risky situation if it has caused the ball to hit the player in the face/eye/etc. Two incidents I don't even have to blink to remember that actually affected the game itself. Countless other incidents of rude fan behavior that haven't been documented, which occur in EVERY stadium in the country, both college and pro.

Completely typical that this thread was started over an incident in which no player was struck by anything, but that the Chicago incident wouldn't have seen a sniff had I not brought it up.

Riots and looting in LA and Detroit after championships....the list goes on and on.

I'm not saying that one citiy's fans are worse than another....all I'm saying is they all have their warts, and we have no more or no less than any of the other comparable big cities, but for some reason, ours are magnified to a greater degree.

We will agree to disagree. I do think there are more in Philly, and I'm speaking from my own experiences. Once again, why do you think yours are magnified ? Was it a random draw ? Do people and media simply not like Philadelphia ? Was the name drawn out of a hat ? The reason the media attention is there is because there were MORE incidents from this one fan base than any other. Because of that, the media is all over it when something goes wrong. It was earned, it wasn't selected randomly.