I have posted the basic rules for the league in a pinned topic. Please take a look at them, and add any comments here.

There were some differing opinions on some rules, but what I have posted is what I believe the concensus was. I know time is short, so please be timely with comments now. If something has to go to a vote, we need to move quickly!

Two comments:

1) There should be a different set of tie-breakers for wild-card spots than there are for divisional tie-breakers, in my opinion. In other words, at a very minimum, divisional record should have nothing to do with wild-cards between non-divisional teams. I personally like total points over HTH because it's a better measure of two teams over an entire season, as opposed to one game, but that's just me. I'm fine with the tie-breakers listed above for division winners, but for wild-card spots, it should probably go:

- Record
- HTH
- Total points

Like I said, though, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if HTH was left out completely, as I think it's the most overrated/meaningless "stat" in fantasy football.

2) Connie asked me to set up the waivers for this league, which I did. However, the times/deadlines listed above (in bold) do not mirror what I was asked to set up. I have weekly waivers requests ending at 9 PM EST every week. Immediately after that (starting at 9 PM), FCFS waivers begin, and continue through Monday evening at 11 PM EST. The catch to this is that players are not eligible to be picked up once their games have kicked off. I even tried this out last night, just to be sure it was set up correctly... MFL gives you a message that the player's game has kicked off and he's not able to be acquired through FCFS. Anybody who has not kicked off yet, however, can be acquired. The Monday night end time allows owners to pick up a Monday night player if they're in a bind, basically.

I can change MFL, but I think it's set up in a way that makes the most sense, so it might be better to just change the wording/times in the rules. You might also want to add a line that states that there is one waivers run prior to the NFL season, just so it's clear.

Everything else looks good... Thanks, John.

We are making the changes Karl thanks!

For divisional winners:
Overall record
H to H
Division record
total points
Point differential in H to H play
coin flip

For wildcards and determining top two seeds in playoffs for byes (two Div winners get byes):
Overall record
H to H
Total points
point differential in H to H play
coin flip

In the case of 3 way ties (or more), one gets eliminated based on the above. To break the tie between the remaining teams, it reverts back to:
Overall record
H to H
total points
point differential in H to H play
coin flip

Sound OK?

I think so.

Fine with me.

I guess the main problem with head-to-head, for me, is that you only play the non-divisional opponents once, AND it's on a bye-week. I can understand that more of an argument can be made for HTH within the division, as the only way it's going to factor in is if one team swept the other team 2-0. When you only play the other team once, however, and it happens to have been on a week when you were missing a couple of your top players, it doesn't make sense to me to have that one game outweigh total points for the season.

I speak from experience here... I have missed out on the playoffs in leagues before where I had 200 more points than the other team (somewhere in the range of 1200 to 1000... or approximately two games worth of point differential), yet they got in and I didn't, based on a bye-week loss to that team. Not a big fan. On the other hand, I can (to a certain extent) understand why some people argue that HTH being a tie-breaker makes things more "exciting." Exciting... maybe. Most fair... I don't think so.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to sway people one way or the other... just trying to convey my thoughts as to why HTH is not as solid of a tie-breaker as total points, in my opinion. Unless several others agree with me, I'm fine with leaving HTH in there. Just had to explain my theory, so you guys don't think I'm crazy (any more than you might already).

Just my .

Karl, I have also been burnt the same way you have with H to H. I understand it doesn't always work out in what seems to be a fair result.

However, I've also seen some teams that were not all that good pile up massive points in a week or 3, and get into the playoffs when other teams were clearly better in a points based system.

I look at it this way; In FF we try to emulate what GM's and coaches do in the NFL. There is always a luck factor. One division is much stronger than another, injuries can kill a team, and sometimes the better team misses the playoffs due to these variables... it's any given Sunday.

This league was based at it's inception to be a H to H league. The NFL is based on W-L's, and that doesn't always seem fair, factor in strength of schedule, bad ref calls, but especially with NFL tie breakers, but my preference has always been to emulate the NFL as closely as possible. The NFL is all about wins and losses. Bad breaks, lucky breaks, luck of the draw.

We can vote on this of the league wants to, but this was at least for me, the plan when I wanted to start the league.... inspired by the 3 Dynasty Wars leagues, which are also H to H formats. That was the model, but to do it in a redraft format, not dynasty.

My argument would be that sometimes, fantasy football players go too far in trying to emulate what happens in the NFL. In other words, the NFL uses HTH because it's a good measure of which team is better... After all, they are meeting on the field. What better way to settle which team is better, right? In fantasy football, there is no meeting on the field... everything is based around statistics/numbers, which is why I think the numbers should overrule a meeting on the field that never actually took place.

I know I'm in the minority on this, which is why I already said that I'm not trying to sway this league in a different direction than it was originally intended. For some reason, this is a debate that I've found myself getting in more than once in the past. No need for a league vote... I'm fine with it either way. I just happen to think that total points is the superior method of breaking a tie.

I've said my piece... Let's just drop it and move on. Bigger "fish to fry"... first on the list is JUICE in Week 1.

Keep in mind that the points leader at the end of the season gets some $.... so if an owner runs into bad luck in H to H, he still gets some prize money.

Any other comments suggstions? time is short....

This is very close to the rule int the rules thread, but I have to re-write the whole section. If there are no further comments, this playoff seeding will supercede the playoff seeding in the pinned rules thread. By saturday, 1pm EST, thesewill become the offiial rules for playoff determiatioms. Speak now, or forever hold your peace.

For that matter, any other rules objections/suggestions must be submitted by 1pm tomorrow (Saturday) or they will not be heard.

For any in season rule changes, which ARE possible, they must be first be contested by more than one owner, and then approved by 70% of owners in a league-wide vote. If no objections are put forth prior to Saturady, 1pm EST, this is the rule set.

Best of luck to all.... let's make this a league of Henry Muto proportions.

I'm good with all of it. Let's play some football. I do have one question about the IR slot. Does the player have to be injured? Or are suspended players eligible for IR? They are listed as out. And there is no link under "for owners" to place someone on IR at the mfl site.

Any player listed as OUT by the NFL is IR eligable for that week. Suspended players should be listed as OUT, but are not IR eligable. IR claims MUST be injury related. One player at a time, per team. Any player on the official NFL IR list should be dropped. I think the IR rules as posted are clear, but ask again if you want more clarification.

Bring it dont sing it