Here in Big Ten land, I get to see some pretty lame football. Channel surf on Comcast and find this MSU/LSU game....very fun to watch.

Yo Gil .....are ya a Penn St Fan?

Illini

Thanks John, I'll hunt down Menudo for a wager

SEC is a little down this year. Pac-10 looks like they are closing the gap with the Big 12 a close 3rd.

SEC down? 3 out 4 of the top ranked teams are from the SEC
#1 Florida
#3 Alabama
#4 LSU

And who, in particular, is closing the gap? It does appear that the Pac 10 is deeper this year than in the past but it appears at the expense of having an elite team.

LSU should have lost that one. Chitty play calling by MSU.

You mean COULD have lost not should have. Think about it. Miss State tried running the ball twice with Dixon on that goal line stance with no success, Bulldogs then tried throwingwith no success then went back to the run of 4th with no success. Even IF Miss State would have scored there are no guarantees they would have made the extra point and if they did make it that LSU wouldn't have scored again themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxC-IKzPvQM

If LSU is the 4th best team in the country, I'll sing The Eyes of Texas...while making it with bevo.

Who do you think is the 4th best team in the country right now?

Well, it could be a number of teams, but LSU is not in that pool.

You say a number of team yet you name none. Is one BYU?

Nice try, but baiting doesn't work with me.. Tell me the #13 ranked team with certainty. Can't do it. If anyone here saw LSU play last weekend and think that they're a top 5 team, they need help.

This sure does sound like certainty to me or are you a closet Texas fan who likes steers?

"If LSU is the 4th best team in the country, I'll sing The Eyes of Texas...while making it with bevo"

The point I'm making is no other team deserves it any more than LSU. Winning on the road in the SEC isn't as easy as you might think. Just ask the Rebels of Ole Miss.

Slaps forehead.

I'll send you a reading comprehension book.

So you don't know who should be number 4, but for certainty it can't be LSU.

Are you related to Sarge? Then again I guess all Oklahoma fans are somewhat related to each other.

Ok.....I'm going to say this and be done with it because it seems to me you're looking for conflict, any conflict, to entertain yourself. There is a BIG difference between winning a close game on the road while looking good and winning a close game on the road and looking like crap. Most of the nation feels pretty much the same way about that game.

On that note............buh bye.

In all fairness, I do think it was a pretty simple question. If not LSU, then who? I mean, it's a whole lot easier to point out who shouldn't be than who should be.

The good news is that LSU will have to beat 2 pretty good teams and two elite teams over the next several weeks or they won't stay at #4. In other words, the debate will certainly be settle one way or another. However, again, if not them, then who?

No conflict just discussion.

Look the BIGGEST difference between good teams and OK teams is that the good ones seem to find a way to win even if things don't go exactly like they had planned.

You're absolutely wrong if you don't think that USC is an "elite" team. True, they lost a game they probably shouldn't have but come on .... not an elite team? That's nonsense. This program has been the most dominant team in college football over the last decade, finishing in the Top 4 in 7 consecutive seasons! Even with all the departures to the NFL I'd be shocked in they weren't there again this year in January. Regardless of losing almost half their starters to the NFL, the USC Trojans are as good as any team in the country. There is more parity, this year, than any I can remember in a while.

I'll put the 9 top Pac-10 teams up against the Top 9 teams of the SEC (leaving out WSU, Kentucky, Arkansas and Vanderbilt)

USC > Florida (Pete Carrol doesn't lose BIG games and I think USC's line play would be the difference)
Cal < Alabama (I don't think bama has the athletes to beat Cal but I'll give them the nod because of the egg Cal laid in Eugene last week)
Oregon = LSU (Great speed and athletes on both programs. This one would be fun to watch)
UCLA > Auburn (UCLA beats Auburn, the same way they beat Tennessee in Knoxville)
Arizona St. < Ole Miss (Ole Miss is better than what they showed last week)
Stanford > So. Carolina (Stanfords O-line would be too much for So Carolina and SC couldn't put up enough points to match Stanford)
Arizona = Georgia (Close game. I think Georgia is better than their ranking but Arizona is tough too and just beat OSU in Corvallis)
Oregon St. < Mississippi St. (MSU in a close one)
Washington = Tennessee (The bruins went into Knoxville and handled the Vols so UW has the players to do the same, especially on a neutral field)

I'll bite ....... Boise State

Based on what I've seen this year Boise St. and Cincinnati would both beat LSU right now and there's no doubt in my mind that the Trojans would handle LSU on a neutral field.

I feel obligated to point out that Urban hasn't lost too many big games either.

USC won a game they probably shouldn't have as well at Ohio State. Personally, I think the gap in the Pac 10 is closing on USC. If you asked me last week, I woulda said Cal would be the one to finally de-throne them. I think USC=Florida until someone outside of the Pac 10 can show me they can beat USC, OSU came as close as a Vince Youngless team can come, but didn't get the job done. That said, Florida's defense has the speed to hang with the athletes of USC. But give Carroll a month to prepare for any team, and he wins ALMOST every time, that's why I say = there. If Bama establishes any sort of run against Cal, it will be roll tide. Oregon=LSU? I think that's pretty accurate. Put em in Eugene and Oregon wins, and vice versa in Baton Rouge. Arizona State would handle Ole Miss. Ole Miss could well be the biggest frauds in the country. However, Auburn would take UCLA to the woodshed. Auburn's offense is 100 times better this year than last, and there defense is just as good or equal to Tennessee, who pretty much held UCLA in check (187 yards of offense). Good win for UCLA to be sure, but I think you'll find out this weekend that Tennessee is no Auburn. South Carolina vs Stanford would be an interesting game, but I think the Gamecocks would pull it out. I saw Arizona first hand against my Hawkeyes already, and they have a lot of speed and a lot of good athletes, however their offensive line isn't suited to handle fast defenses. I would have to give the nod to the Dawgs, just based on my own experience in viewing Arizona for 4 quarters. MSU impressed me, and should've won vs LSU if not for 3 bonehead playcalls at the goalline. I too, think the Bulldogs would win a close one against the Beavers. I also have to agree that Washington is equal to Tennessee. That would be quite the game IMO.

LSU is not the fourth best team in the country. plain and simple. their O-line is putrid they cannot run the ball what so ever. Jefferson goes back to pass and has to run for his life. They have no leaders on the D-line and LB like years past. I really do not know what team you have been watching but the next few weeks will settle this debate. Georgia followed by Florida. and yes I expect the Tigers to have trouble with Geogia.

While in a theoretical sense, yes I agree with you, but there isn't a single 1 loss team that deserves to be ranked ahead of them at this point in the year. I'm certainly no LSU fan, but the system is unfair as it is, lets stop rewarding mediocrity, and mediocrity is losing. Plain and simple.

I understand the system we are stuck with does this. It gives the Rockers of the world reason to shout when the reality is totally different. now if they reverse their play and start winning then i will be called a bandstander or whatever. I am a fan, but a realistic one. I'm not going to say they are #4 when deep down I know otherwise. and if they do beat Florida and Bama, Les needs to immediately go to the college hall of fame.

Slayer if you are indeed a realistic fan you should know the Tigers are winning. In fact they have yet to lose this season 4-0.

Yes they are winning I should have said looking good while winning. C'mon Rocker you can't be that blind that you are really convinced that they can contend for the championship with the way they are playing at the present.

I have been about as outspoken as anyone on this board in praise of USC over the years. But I was sort of under the impression we were talking about this year. USC is going to need to prove they can score points if they're to be considered an elite team this season. And, while I agree that you need to give USC the nod OOC until someone beats them, you also have to do the same for the defending champs who return their entire D plus all everything QB. So, the benefit of the doubts cancel each other out and you're left with the fact that FL's version of laying an egg is only beating UT by 10, USC's version is actually losing to a team that, according to you is equal to UT. Edge to FL.

I'm not going to pretend to say who would win all the rest of those match-ups or if those are even the right ones to begin with.

Rather I'll simply defend my initial point. Obviously USC is, by and large, an elite team, but If they don't find their offense, they're not elite this year. Elite teams do not lose by 40 pts so that pretty much rules out Cal. So, there you have it.

Actually LSU less than stellar performances up to this point in the season is exactly what has me excited about the possibilities of this year's team. If you keep up with recruiting you know LSU has major talent. Do I think they will go into Athens and beat Georgia this weekend? Yes, but I'm a homer and the reality is that LSU has only beaten the Bulldogs once in Athens dating back to the 1970's and it seems I'm in the minority considering Georgia is favored by 3. However regardless of the outcome of the Georgia I still believe LSU can contend for one of the top spots in the SEC which obviously equates to one of the top spots in the nation.

The biggest obstacle for LSU in winning the West and getting back to Atlanta is their SEC schedule. To the best of my knowledge no other SEC team has to play the consensus best teams in both the West and East. While LSU plays Florida and Georgia from the east their biggest challengers in the west Alabama & Ole Miss both get Tennessee and South Carolina. Should LSU finish better than 9-3 this season they will have surpassed my expectations for this season.

The key to LSU success this season will be the play they get from Jordan Jefferson at QB. Remember he's only a true sophomore with like 5 or 6 starts, so I think that inexperience has sort of handcuffed the Tigers coaching staff up to this point . Keep in mind, this was suppose to be Ryan Perriloux senior year. LSU did not have much success recruiting top notch QB's after signing the #1 recruit (RP) in the nation and even though Jefferson is a decent talent he was not exactly a huge national recruit. Now next season with another year's experience at QB, LSU could and should be one of the favorites to win it all.

Yes I keep up with recruiting and all blah blah blah Jefferson is not the problem whether he was nationally recruited or not. The problem is the O-line if they can't run the ball then it all falls on Jefferson's arm and I don't care how good you are it is hard to throw when you are running for your life. and yes the scedule is brutal this year and I would be happy with 9-3 which I predicted they would finish, but 9-3 does not get you to the championship. and yes next year they will be even better because face it they are a young team but I'm talking about this year and playing for the BCS Championship and being rated #4 at the present.

[clearsthroat] This thread was an admission that very good football is played in the SEC and that it is an exciting brand of football, at that [/clearsthroat]

So picking on one particular team that is 4-0 with a wealth of talent just doesn't seem to make your point.