OctoMonkeys will give up:
Guyton, Gary NEP LB

Williamsburg Warriors will give up:
Nicholas, Stephen ATL LB

excellent trade Dan.

Unfortunate for Keg, this deal wont go until next week. As he hadnt accepted here before 1PM EST Friday, today, the start of this weeks games.



4.3 Trading

4.3.1 Process
Trades between teams are unlimited although conditional trades are not allowed. When a trade is proposed, the following will occur:
A. Offering owner must offer the trade using MFL.
B. Accepting owner must accept the trade using MFL.
C. Roster Player Commissioner will be notified via a post in the League forum stating that a trade has been offered/accepted on MFL by BOTH owners involved in the trade.

Any trade involving the FA Player Commissioner or Roster Player Commissioner will be adjudicated by the League Commissioner.

All Fusion$ transactions that are included in any trade will be effective immediately upon League approval of the trade. Trades will not be approved if the team offering the Fusion$ does not have the amount of Fusion$ being offered. No "future" Fusion$ will be allowed in any trade.

4.3.2 Deadlines
The weekly trading deadline is 48 hours before the start of that weeks NFL games. The season trading deadline is 48 hours before the start of the week 10 NFL games.. Trades will be put on hold for 24 hours from the time of acceptance by both owners on the message board, to allow for owner/Roster Player Commissioner inspection.

This was sent to me today at 0741 my time... which is 1041 ET.

"I sent dan a trade offer on his phone and he hasnt responded....told him if he wanted to take the deal to post it and I would give a commish my proxy to accept the deal in the forum and at MFL for me(since I may not be able to get to either site)

trade was Guyton for Nicholas

Thanks
Steve "

I was waiting for Dan to post... and then I had to go somewhere.

So it does meet the criteria of the rules article.

Rules say accepted by BOTH owners involved in the trade. it doesnt say you can send it someone else to accept on your behalf. Its really pretty cut and dry, there is no loophole here that can be exposed like in years past. Thus it does not meet the criteria of the rules.

For once the rules have to be the rules, not some exception for one owner. The same thing has happened before, and the rule stood up, it was after the deadline. it must here again.

The point has been made. The rules state exact to a T what must be done... and it wasn't.

I will be reversing this trade and if the two parties wish for it to go through for next week they will need to re-post.

We've had plenty of proxy confirms before especially during drafts. This is no different. pure B.S.

The proxy thing happening during the draft and a proxy happening during the reqular season are two different animals.

Had this been yesterday (and it was a Friday) Keg would not have had his PM read by me until very late in the day. Then where would we have been?

Sometime..somewhere along the line... we are going to need to start following the rules as written. Until that time comes along I am not sure just where we stand on how the rules are followed.

Proxies should not be allowed (and are not even mentioned in the rules) during the season. That is my take. That is why, after thinking about it, and then reading the followup post by Sarge, that I felt that I should reverse the trade.

So if I can get a readout from a majority of owners.... say 9 not counting me.... before Sunday on what you all want done then we will do it and that will be that. So y'all have one day and a bit to get what you want said said.

Im not saying its even right to do it during the draft, but it has been more lax there to speed up the draft. There is nothing to benefit the group here by allowing this deal to be processed like the proxy during the draft, instead just 1 person, outside the rules at that. So, This is completely different and this has already affected people before. There have been plenty of deals through out the years that didnt go because they were not done in time. THis should be no exception. And for the record its not like the deal was even agreed upon when the message was sent to SKY. So that makes it even more questionable. Hell I could tell Sky every Friday, Ive sent out trade offers to everyone in the league, and since IM notifiying you before the deadline, if one happens to be agreed upon, I should be able to get it done, even if its not posted/agreed upon here in time. Sorry, that simply isnt kosher.

so you are saying that we should never allow a proxy if it just helps one person out? I think that is what you are saying and just want to make sure I am hearing you clearly....and that if it benefits us as a whole that is ok but we shouldnt do it if it benefits just one owner, is that right?

fwiw, Sky(my proxy) didnt agree to the trade in time so I have to live with that....but to say the rules dont say anything about a proxy and say they shouldnt be used now after what 6 years is a bit crazy...we have set precedent that proxies are ok in the past and don't see why they shouldn't still be allowed since there is precedent.

Actually NO, Im not sayng it should be ok under any circumstances. I was referring to DKFs post that I replyed to, saying the only thing I can think of why a proxy during the draft was approved was to help the group, speed up the draft. Surely you cant be this dense.

If for once you would adhere to the rules instead of try and circumvent them, maybe the league would run smoothly. How appropriate you are the first one to cause waves again this year. And we are not even in week 4 yet.

Oh I dont know, maybe because the rules are specific on how trades should be processed. Unfortunately for you, there isnt a loophole you can walk through like the now infamous anti-tank Keg rule that had to be created because of your actions. Luckily this rule was described to a T, so there is no way to circumvent the rule, which you obviously continue to try to do.

BTW, SKY this needs to be reversed, per rule until next week.

I didn't say I was looking for a loophole...go look what I said....i said I had to live with the fact that my proxy didnt agree to the trade in time....but i will still say that we have set a precedent about using a proxy....

Like it has already been said the proxy has been allowed for drafting and that isnt in the rules and it was also stated that if a proxy needed to be used during RFA that would be ok...that sure wouldnt be a benefit to the entire league now would it....but you didnt seem to have a problem with that when it was given as an option now did you?

here you go....now go and find in the rules where it says it is OK to use a proxy in that instance...sky wasnt trying to get over then and I wasnt trying to get over now....and dont go saying i am the one that is causing trouble..you are the one that is going around being the Trade PoPo Commish

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=125146

there is no need...the trade was not agreed upon by the deadline....i didn't think it would end up being an issue since you are usually always around...you werent and that is fine, no hard feelings or anything....it is my own fault for missing FA and not trying to trade for another LB or DL earlier...I had to work late every nite this week and it put me behind in getting my article done and that was all i focused on each nite and is why I didnt even realize I didnt have an extra LB if Brackett cant go...so again it is on me and no need for anyone else to chime in...but i do think we probably need to talk about the proxy part of it.

not sure why it needs to be reversed since it cant happen since proxy agreements aren't allowed for in the rules

It needs to be reversed because it was processed.

And are you saying that you proposed a trade to Dan in MFL, he accepted, and because you didnt post it here in time for it to happen this week, you are going back on it.

WOW, you are a real piece of work. Sorry Dan. This dude has no class what so ever.

I think the issue at hand is clouded by a past issue and therefore being blown out of proportion.
There was a trade that was offered and accepted in MFL by the deadline. It was posted in the forum by the deadline and accepted in the forum through communication with the commissioner of the league by the deadline. The PM to Sky is no different than a phone call to someone in the league asking to forward communication to the league via the forum due to a lack of internet access.
I see no issue with this trade going through as made.
All I see here is ball busting. No way to prove it but if this trade involved anyone but Keg I doubt there ever would have been a peep.
Just my

Sounds good to me. Thank you.

This issue is laid to rest at this time and we will revisit "proxy" issues during March rules month.

If the trade was accepted and offered by both parties in MFL, and it looks like the trade offer was posted before 1000hrs est and Keg sent his acceptance to sky before 1000hrs.....why wouldn't the trade go through?

If it is because Keg himself didn't sign on the the boards and accept, I don't think that's right.
And even if it's because his proxy didn't do it in time, still not right.

I can't get to the boards during the day. I'm blocked at work. I'd be more then a little ticked off that a potential trade gets tossed because I can't accept it on the boards.
I think proxy's can and should be used.
I would say as long as it's Sky or AC then there shouldn't be a problem.

You have almost as many stances on this trade as you do forum user names....

One stance: The trade cant stand because BOTH owners didnt agree in the forum and the rules say nothing about a proxy.
Another stance: The trade cant stand this week because BOTH owners didnt agree in the forum but Keg has to have the trade put thru next week because he proxy agreed to the trade.

What side are you on Sarge? The side that the rules need to be followed. The side that the rules need to be followed so that you can get an advantage this week. The side that the rules need to be followed and then bent a bit so to screw me.

And as usual you have your facts wrong...
Session Start (MisterGmann:digitaldan21): Fri Oct 02 09:50:23 2009
[09:51] MisterGmann: hey would you be willing to move Guyton 1 yr for Nicholas 3 yrs in fusion? I play sarge and if brackett is out this week I will be a LB short
[09:51] *** Auto-response from digitaldan21: Your IM has been sent to my mobile device. When I receive it, I will be able to reply. Thanks for your IM! Want your IMs forwarded to your phone? Click here
Session Close (digitaldan21): Fri Oct 02 10:01:31 2009


Session Start (MisterGmann:digitaldan21): Fri Oct 02 10:39:12 2009
[10:39] MisterGmann: well if you see this prior to the deadline please post it and I will PM a commish with my proxy to accept it
[12:10] digitaldan21: Posted and proposed in MFL. Just woke up on vacation!! GL vs Sarge!!

So Dan knew I only wanted the trade for this week and as you can see I didnt propose the trade in MFL...and from what it looks like in MFL the offer is still there from when he offered it (not sure if sky ever accepted it or not and then reversed it)

and as far as calling me a piece of work you really need to look in the mirror...earlier this week it was brought to my attention that I should read a thread where someone supposedly crossed the line with you...well something you posted jumped out at me:


I have news for you...Sgt. Ryan didn't die but I guess the or something could mean he is just lying in wait....You can change your user names as many times as you want but when it comes down to it those are just letters viewed on a message board but the man behind the keyboard is still the same venomous Sgt. Ryan. You can say it is schtick all you want but I know differently because I have heard it come from your mouth when you have called me in the past cursing and threatening me etc....so keep changing your user names if you think it makes a difference but it is no different then Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde and don't go getting your panties in a bunch and thinking about calling me again and cursing me out and telling me I wouldn't say these things to your face blah blah blah. I really feel sorry for you because I do think you have issues that you should seek professional help for.

and now I guess I have to add all your aliases to my ignore list too

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: Dallas Sooner.

· View this post
· Squeeze me a little harder Dallas Sooner

I think the trade should stand as well, I think Sarge only reacted this way based on two things...

It's Keg & the owner picking up bye week help is his opponent.

Many times Fusion has strayed from the letter of a rule to the spirit, and I have rallied to the letter of the rule in the past, but I have long since given up that cause.

IMO this is a trade that was offered and accepted prior to the 48hr deadline.

If the standard it needs to pass is NINE owners to voice an opinion, it never had a shot, I don't think nine people check in weekly anymore, let alone in the time frame I'd need.

I'm slowly but surely losing patience with this league's dynamic. It used to be my favorite now this is how everything works out, I have yet to have an instance where a rule's letter was overridden for spirit in my favor.

-DD21

I have no issue wit the way this trade went down. I have never participated in a league in which you couldn't send your acceptance to a commish offline, regardless of the written rule, so long as you did so by the deadline. I always thought the point of posting in the forum is to notify the commishes that you didn't "fat-finger" accept the trade.

I think I am #7 that would allow the trade to stand (not really sure where Sky stands....so I could only be 6).

Since proxies were used in the past without objection, there is a precedent for proxy use. So I would side with letting the trade through.

If this were just about any one of my other leagues, my guess is that all other owners would say, "No big deal, let the trade stand." But this isn't one of my other leagues. Some of the owners in this league are so far from being friends that we can't be expected to act in a relaxed and friendly way towards each other when it comes to interpreting the rules. It's weird for me because as much as I like all of the other owners in Fusion, I can't really consider this a friends league like most of my others.

So, since that's the way we are, I guess the letter of the law is the only fall back. But even then, maybe we need some kind of constitutional philosophy to be agreed upon. Which of these two principles applies to Fusion:

1) Owners reserve all rights to act as they wish, unless it is specifically forbidden in the Consitution.
2) Owners reserve no rights to act as they wish, unless they are specifically granted by the Constitution.

It matters because of the differing interpretations. Can we use a proxy because the Constitution doesn't specifically say that we cannot? Or, can we not use a proxy because the Constitution doesn't specifically say that we can?

I guess I would rather apply the 1st principle to our league's Constitution. That would allow the use of a proxy since it is not specifically forbidden. Precedent seems to have allowed similar exceptions in teh past.

This would mean that the trade is valide. But even so, in regards to this particular trade, Keg has already acknowledged that the trade was not accepted in time for this week's games. So, that's how I would interpet this mess. Trade is valid by proxy, but doesn't go through until next week.

With that said, I won't be heart broken if everyone else thinks the 2nd principle should apply to our league instead (which woudl then not allow a proxy).

I never said the trade cant stand, I said it isnt valid for this week, because it missed the deadline. Is this really that hard for you. Seriously?

I never said I left, I said the Sgt Ryan name was dead and buried. I play in many types of leagues here, 6 FF, 2 f basketball, and 1 F baseball leagues on this site alone. My PM box is full at almost all times. So, I created other accounts for each sport. IM not trying to hide my identity, owners in my leagues know exactly who I am. So next time get a clue before you post.

Someone brought it to your attention. Whatever. Hell you are posting about OU players there. IM sure that had nothing to do with me....

I only wish you could stand by your word and ignore me. You run your mouth in all forums. I cant tell you how many people have told me all the BS you say. IF you didnt care, why waste the breath. You arent fooling anyone but yourself.

And IM not going to say we didnt have a heated discussion on the phone. I called to let water under the bridge as we discussed ending league management in the leagues we shared, but you ran your mouth excessively. Maybe if you hadnt, I wouldnt have had to say you wouldnt say those things to my face, that you just quoted above. I certainly didnt call you to threaten you like you spewed above. There comes a point you have to take responsibility for your actions. You think you can speak of me and my family on the phone and behind my back, to many many huddlers, and Im just going to take it from you, you have another thing coming. So next time give all the facts. Now I know where this lil rumor started, that Menudo hinted at, but wouldnt tell me who I supposedly said it.

Maybe if you just played by the rules, and quit trying to circumvent them or find a loophole to compete, there would never have been an issue between you and I in the first place. You know for a fact this began, with your full fledged tanking a whole season, to get AP, and buy every FA available that offseason. I had no problem with you for years before that. So you can spew whatever you want, but you are the one that needs to look in the mirror.

And even if you guys want to use proxy, which isnt what the rule says. THe deal wasnt accepted in time by the proxy, so its a moot point now

And according to Keg, it wasnt accepted in MFL. So that is not the case here.

If the trade wasn't accepted in MFL on time, then it is a moot point.

Well.....I honestly don't have a problem with using a proxy. HOWEVER.....this could all have been avoided IF Keg had told Dan WHO his proxy was.....and Dan had made a call to the proxy to say he'd proposed/accepted the trade offer. Or.....Keg had called Sky to give him a headsup. Just saying I'll have a commish proxy.....could mean what...4 people in this league? And just sending a PM or email doesn't guarantee the proxy will see it in time.

And as I see it.....using a proxy for RFA is not the same as using a proxy for a trade deadline. In RFA we are all on the hook to check in every day for a solid month. In some bidding, we have NO IDEA when the last bid will be entered. If one of us has an obligation, it's not a stretch to tell a commish to just match or decline to match whatever the highest bid happens to be, whenever it occurs. That, to me, doesn't constitute a precedent for using a proxy for a trade.

The commishes do a lot around here.....to just turn it over to a commish because you can't wait around.....then expect THEM to wait around is a bit ridiculous. MOST of us can't "hang out on the computer" anymore for various reasons. And a lot of us can't access from work. I think most of us have contact phone numbers listed at MFL. And we certainly have phone numbers for commishes. Preliminary injury reports come out on Weds, but most teams won't rule out a player until they fail to practice on Thursday. Leaves us all in a pickle to cover our lineups by trading before Friday @1pm.

The rest of us are not privy to seeing the transaction as is in MFL. So I can't comment on whether it was done on time. But it seems to me that if all documentation was within the timeframe, AND all documentation can be verified, I don't really see a problem with allowing the trade for this week.

But fer cripes sakes people, get your acts together. If it's THAT important.....maybe DON'T leave it until Friday at noon. Or if you want to make sure all parties get the message.....call them! Then back up the phone call with a PM that has a timestamp, etc. To just assume a commish is "hovering" on the boards to do your beck and call is ludicrous.

You remember phones......right? They are those little devices you all use to 'text' on. They actually dial up real live people.....you know?

My 2 cents......for what it's worth.

Yup

ETA: Bunz...

apologies about the time getting the trade reset.

Dan who do you want to start? Guyton?

Well I was out of town on vacation and missed this.

My only comment would be to say that Keggerz, knowing that he was playing Sarge, should have been much more clear about what was going down to avoid this very situation. A post here saying that he'd given sky proxy to accept a trade for instance, or better yet, propose the trade in MFL and post it here then Dan could have accepted or declined both places.

I don't think that all SHOULD be necessary but that's what this league has become.

it is done and over with so no worries but just to address what you say I should have done....i would have but i got a call to get to work immediately and basically sent a quick IM and quick PM because that was all I had time for...I then ended up touring multiple parks for the better part of the day with a Division Director and some additional higher ups so I didnt even get to see this thread until I got home that night....but like I said earlier I should have realized I had an issue earlier in the week but I was trying to push out my weekly article because I had been working extended time at work.

Nice avatar.



I always knew you wanted to be like me.

gay


j/k